Recommended items on this site base on performance alone not reliability.

[Theta]

There is a preponderance of Chinese products in the recommended list of reviews. SMSL, Topping, and many others. I own at least a dozen of these, fortunately all below the €200 mark. Although I use some very rarely many have become defective. I concur and agree with Amir's test on the performance of these items, but they should be regarded as disposables. I have no intention of looking up the the individual warranties, finding the distributors when there is one, exchanging multiple emails, shipping at my cost and other various time consuming expenses. These wonderful and exceptional items will end up in the dust bin. I think it should be pointed out that many of us are in this situation.

 

[Doodski]

There is a preponderance of Chinese products in the recommended list of reviews. SMSL, Topping, and many others. I own at least a dozen of these, fortunately all below the €200 mark. Although I use some very rarely many have become defective. I concur and agree with Amir's test on the performance of these items, but they should be regarded as disposables. I have no intention of looking up the the individual warranties, finding the distributors when there is one, exchanging multiple emails, shipping at my cost and other various time consuming expenses. These wonderful and exceptional items will end up in the dust bin. I think it should be pointed out that many of us are in this situation.

...and what is your point? That the stuff has defects and faults or that you bought too much of it?

 

[JSmith]

end up in the dust bin

Please send such items to e-waste for recycling, not in landfill.


JSmith

 

[MaxwellsEq]

There is a preponderance of Chinese products in the recommended list of reviews. SMSL, Topping, and many others. I own at least a dozen of these, fortunately all below the €200 mark. Although I use some very rarely many have become defective. I concur and agree with Amir's test on the performance of these items, but they should be regarded as disposables. I have no intention of looking up the the individual warranties, finding the distributors when there is one, exchanging multiple emails, shipping at my cost and other various time consuming expenses. These wonderful and exceptional items will end up in the dust bin. I think it should be pointed out that many of us are in this situation.

Reliability testing is not something that can easily be done in a setup like Amir's. Unless something fails when he tests it using reasonable signals and loads, you can draw no information about reliability from ASR reviews.

Reliability testing involves simulating long periods of use, extreme temperatures, vibration, signals and loads in order to create a device MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures). This is a specialist task best done by the manufacturer.

 

[Doodski]

Please send such items to e-waste for recycling, not in landfill.


JSmith

I consider myself lucky in that I bought a ATOM DAC+ and it's working fine and the Schiit headphone amp is working well too but that might be because I have never unplugged the headphones from it.

 

[Theta]

...and what is your point? That the stuff has defects and faults or that you bought too much of it?

My point is quite quiet clear. These recommended items are often junk, having bought too much of it is not at all a problem, I am an adult, I am not complaining, I am cautioning others not to do the same if they can't afford it..

 

[unpluggged]

There is a preponderance of Chinese products in the recommended list of reviews. SMSL, Topping, and many others. I own at least a dozen of these, fortunately all below the €200 mark. Although I use some very rarely many have become defective. I concur and agree with Amir's test on the performance of these items, but they should be regarded as disposables. I have no intention of looking up the the individual warranties, finding the distributors when there is one, exchanging multiple emails, shipping at my cost and other various time consuming expenses. These wonderful and exceptional items will end up in the dust bin. I think it should be pointed out that many of us are in this situation.

You say it as if it was a surprise for you.

I am cautioning others not to do the same if they can't afford it..

1) Considering the business practices that are in place among those manufacturers, this is obvious and people here are mostly aware of the risks. Just look up the numerous threads about common failures of certain products.
2) Product reviews do not and can not assess the reliability of reviewed items by definition, so you it's unfair of you to imply any sort of deception on Amir's part.

 

[Sokel]

My point is quite quiet clear. These recommended items are often junk, having bought too much of it is not at all a problem, I am an adult, I am not complaining, I am cautioning others not to do the same if they can't afford it..

OK,I have a question and I will take advantage of your honesty if you're willing to answer it:

You said 6 pieces of gear,most of them DAC I suppose.What was the intention of buying them?
New features?Looks? Measured performance?An expectation of better sound quality?

 

[Doodski]

My point is quite quiet clear. These recommended items are often junk, having bought too much of it is not at all a problem, I am an adult, I am not complaining, I am cautioning others not to do the same if they can't afford it..

OK. Cool! Now we are getting somewhere. For many newbies this is the go to gear though. They know it's inexpensive.

 

[RosalieTheDog]

I personally have had no bad experiences yet with regards to reliability of Topping, for example. But I agree with OP in a more general way. This last decade audio-electronics have entered into the logic of smartphones and other appliances of selling the customer continued incremental improvements. Check for example the new product page of audiophonics, the European distributor of many of these brands. Every month or even week SMSL, Topping, Fosi etc release mark two, mark three versions of the same DACs, with slightly improved measurements data. Audiosciencereview and a quote from Amir ('I am happy to recommend ....') linked in these product pages with measurements to back up that there is indeed a small improvement.

Audiosciencereview might on the one hand have the mission of debunking claims of overpriced brands with objective data; it certainly also has become a part of the strategy of electronics companies selling ever new container shipments of electronics to US and Europe. (I wager that no owner of a Topping device in Europe or US has not seen an audiosciencereview page.) In that respect I also find some reviews lacking. Basic functionally is sometimes not tested ("I couldn't get x to work so I didn't test it"), and reliability problems that are signalled by users in the thread are rarely if ever integrated in an amended review.

A certain type of consumer might get caught up in this. Audiophile upgrade-itis is not new, though a younger crowd of PC enthusiasts might exacerbate it with typical PC upgrade-itis (a newer video card promises slightly more frames per second). Audiosciencereview sends an ambiguous and perhaps slightly hypocritcal message to those consumers. On the one hand perfection in electronics is achieved; everything over a €100 DAC is overkill and enters into imperceptable difference. On the other hand it continues to publish reviews of new electronics with leaderboards showing tiny engineering improvements, feeding this cycle.

 

[Theta]

OK,I have a question and I will take advantage of your honesty if you're willing to answer it:

You said 6 pieces of gear,most of them DAC I suppose.What was the intention of buying them?
New features?Looks? Measured performance?An expectation of better sound quality?

No problem, actually it is more than 6.
First of all I have more then one system.
Also features. Some are balanced some are not. Headphone amps have different requirements and features.
Some don't have compatible drivers for various OS, mainly Linux.
The remotes on these product are a joke, replacing it requires detective work, it is often easier and cheaper to buy a whole new unit then to try to find a comptable remote because they come out weekly with a so called updated unit.
Again, this is not just a complaint on my part, I have a source for buying these at a huge discount, and I can afford to take the loss on these not so scientific toys.
It is just information that may be useful to some members.
On the positive side the Topping D10s is great, no features, no filters, no bluetooth, no volume control, no remote, I bought 2 of these on Amir's recommendation.

 

[Galliardist]

If you read threads here for new products that are not reviews, for example the Node Icon thread, you will notice that more expensive products from traditional and mainstream companies also have reliability issues, and that products the average ASR regulars wouldn’t touch are still upgraded to by new members and others.

I am not sure that the site is provoking a lot of behaviour that wouldn’t happen anyway.

 

[Theta]

You say it as if it was a surprise for you.


1) Considering the business practices that are in place among those manufacturers, this is obvious and people here are mostly aware of the risks. Just look up the numerous threads about common failures of certain products.
2) Product reviews do not and can not assess the reliability of reviewed items by definition, so you it's unfair of you to imply any sort of deception on Amir's part.

You are miss interpreting my thread, I am in no way whatsoever implying deception on Amir's reviews.

 

[Theta]

Several manufacturers releases new - very similar - products very frequently and that is the major reason why you see so many reviews of them: Availability. Retesting the exact same device does not happen often, unless there where some issues in the first place. Sometimes other members posts their own reviews, though, which I like.

I live in EU so I buy from "locally" in order to have my consumer rights protected, so no outside EU imports for me. The device could be made outside EU, say China, but any warranty will have to go through the EU based seller. This is for early failures and not having to pay transportation costs that would be a significant, or wait half a year to get a fixed/replaced device.

Personally I like EU based manufacturers with excellent quality, documentation and support like RME and Genelec, even though I'll pay more, but then the support is very long (decades) and they pay living wages. I also have microphones from Earthworks Audio, an US company making products "Made in USA". They too are relatively expensive. Since they last so long, barring failure that happens to every manufacturer, they are inexpensive in the long run.

Good reply, I also own both RME and Genelec products in addition to the various questionable Chinese products.
We should point out that Genelec and RME come from the professional world, while on this site the main focus is on Hi Fi.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

while on this site the main focus is on Hi Fi.

That's a bit of a blanket statement. Quite a lot of us are from the professional audio world and pro gear gets discussed, along with production techniques, microphone best practice etc.

 

[TurtlePaul]

I feel like the market has spoken. Chip amps and DACs aren’t really serviceable by a technician anyways. Between a $2,000 piece of electronics that can be repaired for $150 at your local hi-fi shop and a $200 device that can’t be repaired and has a poor warranty, people are choosing with their wallets the latter.

I wish Topping and 3E audio, etc. would stop using potting compound on their boards, but otherwise I am fine with buying low cost devices which get the job done but have little/no warranty. But I haven’t had a bunch of devices fail. I usually wait three months to purchase and look at the customer feedback.

 

[Chr1]

Just wish they'd vent/heatsink their amps properly.

 

[egellings]

No problem, actually it is more than 6.
First of all I have more then one system.
Also features. Some are balanced some are not. Headphone amps have different requirements and features.
Some don't have compatible drivers for various OS, mainly Linux.
The remotes on these product are a joke, replacing it requires detective work, it is often easier and cheaper to buy a whole new unit then to try to find a comptable remote because they come out weekly with a so called updated unit.
Again, this is not just a complaint on my part, I have a source for buying these at a huge discount, and I can afford to take the loss on these not so scientific toys.
It is just information that may be useful to some members.
On the positive side the Topping D10s is great, no features, no filters, no bluetooth, no volume control, no remote, I bought 2 of these on Amir's recommendation.

I would not want to buy a product that required the use of a remote to operate it. Lose the remote and the product is bricked. For me the product needs to be operable both with and without the remote.

 

[Theta]

I feel like the market has spoken. Chip amps and DACs aren’t really serviceable by a technician anyways. Between a $2,000 piece of electronics that can be repaired for $150 at your local hi-fi shop and a $200 device that can’t be repaired and has a poor warranty, people are choosing with their wallets the latter.

I wish Topping and 3E audio, etc. would stop using potting compound on their boards, but otherwise I am fine with buying low cost devices which get the job done but have little/no warranty. But I haven’t had a bunch of devices fail. I usually wait three months to purchase and look at the customer feedback.

Here in Europe nothing can be repaired for 150 Dollars.

 

[EERecordist]

There is a preponderance of Chinese products in the recommended list of reviews. SMSL, Topping, and many others. I own at least a dozen of these, fortunately all below the €200 mark. Although I use some very rarely many have become defective. I concur and agree with Amir's test on the performance of these items, but they should be regarded as disposables. I have no intention of looking up the the individual warranties, finding the distributors when there is one, exchanging multiple emails, shipping at my cost and other various time consuming expenses. These wonderful and exceptional items will end up in the dust bin. I think it should be pointed out that many of us are in this situation.

I wrote this a while back: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...reliability-science-in-audio-equipment.54018/

Caveat emptor.