Racks... The Next Frontier

[anmpr1]

The Crown stuff above is probably in a Barzilay equipment rack.(or maybe just stackable walnut cases)

I think it's stackable walnut cases. Back then, you could get wood sleeves for a lot of gear. They were either standard (on many receivers) or optional. If you could afford Crown, you could probably afford the case.

 

[JJB70]

In the 1990's my employer outfitted crew cabins with relatively cheap but adequate midi systems. These were standard off the shelf systems not modified in any way. Despite the fact that they were screwed onto shelves in a cabin which routinely rolled, pitched and heaved, and with the vibration equivalent of 1000lb bombs being thrown out by the 40 - 50MW slow speed diesels and several 2MW diesel generators a few decks below, the prop etc vibration was a none issue to their sound performance.

 

[Hipper]

Can't remember that the PSAudio Perfectwave DAC had problems with vibrations.

In mentioning the shortcomings of the PSAudio DAC I was trying to convey the fact that even established designers get things wrong in some areas. It therefore seems reasonable to think that they can also get it wrong in regards to isolation. There are certainly a lot of different solutions.

No. Knowing how a CD player works this is almost impossible. Just knock with your fingers on the player while it plays. If there are no interruptions or stutters then vibrations (much lower amplitude than knocking) cannot have a sonic impact.

Some designers certainly attempt to design out vibrations. My TEACs for example have quite sophisticated feet based on cones. It is claimed in the manual that the design 'effectively damps and reduces vibration.' Other efforts to reduce vibration are in the CD reading mechanism which tries to reduce vibrations from 'mechanical sources or typical vibration of the disc'. In addition it claims that the case's solid construction also helps to eliminate vibration.

Manufacturers hype perhaps or a real world considerations? I don't know much about the design of CD Transports. I assume TEAC do.

Before we delve into solutions (racks and isolation devices) we should ensure that there are any such shortcomings in the first place.

How can an individual do this? If for example my TEACs are the correct solution (to a problem that there seems to be some doubt actually exists), how can we compare other designs, using lighter casings, different CD clamping, or different feet? Yes, if we know what to measure, there should be measurements from designers but there aren't.

I fear you are sadly mistaken here. There is always bias - knowingly or not - if listening is not controlled (DBT).

If it is louder than it can easily be measured even with the cheapest soundcard. Post results please.

It is simply not practical for me to do any sort of well constructed listening test in my home. It would involve removing and replacing shelves (7) and feet (15) as well as connecting and disconnecting cabling (which could effect things). I only have REW and I wouldn't rely on that for proof of 1dB changes. And 1dB was the amount I turned down the digital volume control, so satisfying myself at least that the music seemed louder with the isolation gear in place.

I'm not convinced there was bias. Of course I could be deluded. They were tests to see if this equipment would be beneficial or not. It's expensive so I didn't particularly want to buy it. I was listening for small changes in the higher frequencies - percussion. I thought I detected small amounts with shelves and feet under the amp and CD Transport, and shelves under the speakers, but no change from the DAC and equaliser. After a while I got fed up and decided just to listen to the music. That's when I noticed the subtle changes, including being slightly louder.

It would be easy to argue all sorts of explanations other then isolation for the changes apart from that there weren't any - raising the speaker height (shelves are 15mm thick), movement of speakers (I place them in an exact spot and toe in), maybe others. It doesn't matter to me now!

I would have thought the best place to measure the impact if any of isolation equipment is the output signal from the gear concerned - so for an amp, at its speaker terminal. What exactly is to be measured I don't know.

 

[SIY]

Major mistake: conflating marketing aimed at gullible audiophiles with actual technical reality.

 

[Killingbeans]

Other efforts to reduce vibration are in the CD reading mechanism which tries to reduce vibrations from 'mechanical sources or typical vibration of the disc'.

Like I wrote before, every single CD reading mechanism in past and present production have that included in the design. I would be very surprised if it was a problem that needed further fixing.

 

[mansr]

Like I wrote before, every single CD reading mechanism in past and present production have that included in the design. I would be very surprised if it was a problem that needed further fixing.

The original Sony CDP-101 didn't have much damping and was quite sensitive to mechanical shocks as a result. That said, it still takes a not-so-gentle tap on the machine itself or heavy stomping on the floor to make it skip. The tracking servo is pretty insane, though, prone to burning out despite being fitted with a heatsink.

 

[Soniclife]

Like I wrote before, every single CD reading mechanism in past and present production have that included in the design. I would be very surprised if it was a problem that needed further fixing.

I agree, and if it did need fixing I doubt hard materials and spikes would be the solution. Which should be the question people buying into the idea stands make a difference are asking themselves, what is the correct stand for this component? Why don't you see stands with a range of different shelf materials, and different shelf supports, some on spikes, some springs, some rubber, some damped etc. The only place you see variation is under a TT, everything else works best on whatever brand concept you have bought into.

 

[SIY]

The other thing to note is that this isn’t a sound change, it’s skips and dropouts. Presumably, when a user faces that, he doesn’t immediately think of putting thousands of dollars into a rack...

 

[MattHooper]

Just to make sure my thoughts are up to speed on this...

It's been my beliefs that there aren't many audio devices which are likely to suffer vibrations in an audible way.

So....

1. Turntables. Yes, some turntable designs can benefit by the addition of isolation, e.g. isolation from heavier floor-born vibrations.

2. Tube amps/pre-amps. In the "maybe" category. Possible that enough vibration can cause microphonic stuff to happen in the tubes, possibly affecting sound. (Though I don't know if that is in fact true...how likely it actually is and under which plausible conditions).

3. Pretty much everything else that would be on a rack: Nothing to worry about. I can't see how, for instance, CDPs, DACs, servers, SS amplification etc would suffer "vibration" issues that would plausibly alter their signal.

Any corrections to offer to the above?

Thanks.

 

[Darkweb]

I just throw all my gear into a pile on the floor of my studio apartment. My wife got to keep the rack

Glad to hear that's optimal.

 

[Neddy]

Racks? Those are shelf units.
That's not a knife...
That's a knife:
This is a rack: (had to have a nice home for my new OktoDAC, yes?)

(It's the one on the right

 

[Martin]

Do you have a few pictures? I bet they look good.

This is the one I kept and use today:

My amp stands:

These were other models:

And this was my original prototype:

Martin

 

[pozz]

This is the one I kept and use today:
View attachment 48081

My amp stands:
View attachment 48082

These were other models:
View attachment 48083

View attachment 48084

And this was my original prototype:
View attachment 48086

Martin

This is the one I kept and use today:
View attachment 48081

My amp stands:
View attachment 48082

These were other models:
View attachment 48083

View attachment 48084

And this was my original prototype:
View attachment 48086

Martin

Nicely done. On par with anything I've seen at high-end shows.

 

[Putter]

TBH what surprised me most was they were actually relatively reasonably priced with prices in the $100's rather than $1000's. Apparently even subjective audiophiles (at least in the opinion of What Hi-Fi?) aren't going to spend really serious money on furniture as opposed to equipment and accessories.

 

[Xulonn]

Rack? Don't need no stinkin' rack. I haven't seen any confirmed objective evidence that tweaker's racks with cones and/or dampers make a difference in normal listening rooms. Conversely, I have seen evidence that dedicated audio component racks can be yet another category silly of audiophool myths. But of course, there is nothing wrong with liking and owning them as long as there is no claim of "magical" sonic properties.

My room decorating tastes are quite different from the aesthetics of those who prefer dedicated hard-core techno-audiophile listening rooms. I owned a nice custom "equipment cabinet" (pic below) back in the early 2000's. It held my Yamaha TX-950 Tuner, an Audio Refinement CD Player, a David Belles tube (no-phono) preamplifier, and a custom Tektron (Italy) 2.5wpc 2A3 SE amplifier. My loudspeakers were a pair of 99dB sensitive Klipsch Forte IIs. I was long past owning vinyl and a turntable, but not yet participating in the computer digital music (MP3) world yet, because MP3's for audiophile systems were not yet widely accepted. The drawers held a couple hundred CD's, but I used a separate tall CD rack against a wall. I had no problems with audible vibration, ringing, altered/distorted sound, etc.

I currently use a cheapo black vinyl covered particle board media center/TV stand, but hope to replace it soon with a nicer custom hardwood "media center" stand with a design based on the below image. It will have space on the lower shelf for my alternative amp - an EL34/KT77/6CA7/6L6 SE tube amplifier - to to sit with its gently glowing tubes while not baking the wood above the tubes.

As you can probably tell from this post, I enjoy the esthetics of wood and furniture in a viewing/listening room, yet I still like to showcase some - but not all - of my A/V components. The tube amplifier, DAC, and Intel NUC PC will be visible, but my UPS, SS amplifier, and the Ethernet switch and NAS with their bright, blinking LED lights will be hidden from view.

 

[Hugo9000]

I'd love to have this rack as long as it came fully loaded as in this pic:

Nakamichi System One

OMG, this person has TWO racks!

Here is one in a shaky-cam youtube video haha:

 

[LTig]

That's not a knife...
That's a knife:

Crocodile Dundee in NYC - that scene was cool.

This is a rack: (had to have a nice home for my new OktoDAC, yes?)
View attachment 48076
(It's the one on the right
View attachment 48075

Even with your hint it took me some time to realize that those 70's style "speakers" are not speakers but your rack.

 

[Habu]

Cyrus Hark

 

[Martin]

I lusted after SAE equipment in the early 80's:

Martin

 

[Soniclife]

I lusted after SAE equipment in the early 80's:

Martin

Oh my god, it's full of sliders.