Racks... The Next Frontier

[RayDunzl]

My point though is that some on here are convinced they don't do anything. How do they know this if there have been no measurements?

@amirm has produced many measurements.

None of which, I hazard to assume, involved the use of special racks or physical mechanical vibrational isolation to achieve the results presented.

I've seen no trends to indicate a problem yet unsolved.

What's left to be done?

 

[gene_stl]

I had the Pioneer rack in 1976 for all my Pioneer gear. They didn't have a shelf for the M-22. I gave it to my friend when I moved to a bigger house
and moved all the power amps to the basement. I wish I had it back.

There is a guy in Hungary who makes a replica of the Pioneer but it will cost you about 800-1000 to get one to the USA. There is also a guy in the Czech republic who makes the matching rack adapters with handles. The Hungarian guy makes the adapters too but charges much more for them.
Both advertise on fleabay.

The Pioneer was about a perfect design. Could be shipped KD and had a top deck for your turntable and a bottom deck for the biggest heaviest power amp and rolled on lockable wheels.

The Pioneer "rack adapters" wasted a little bit of vertical rack space especially when used for things like tuners and crossovers that were not heat generators. The Pioneer units were shelf style adapters that needed and extra unit or two of vertical space.

Although my sweet natured and patient wife suggested I just bite the bullet and buy an example from the Hungarian guy, $1000 is just too much to spend on a rack.

So I have managed to get some server rack and server shelf units which aren't as pretty as Pioneer but are essentially free. My favorite price.

 

[Killingbeans]

My point though is that some on here are convinced they don't do anything. How do they know this if there have been no measurements?

Common sense? Besides, the burden of proof lies upon those who claim that they do.

 

[Martin]

Do you have a few pictures? I bet they look good.

These are the racks I kept...

 

[GrimSurfer]

My point though is that some on here are convinced they don't do anything. How do they know this if there have been no measurements?

Common sense, mostly.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Common sense? Besides, the burden of proof lies upon those who claim that they do.

Ha ha. I said the same thing before reading your post!

 

[GrimSurfer]

@amirm has produced many measurements.

None of which, I hazard to assume, involved the use of special racks or physical mechanical vibrational isolation to achieve the results presented.

I've seen no trends to indicate a problem yet unsolved.

What's left to be done?

Maybe @amirm needs to halt all testing until an acoustically and seismically stable rack is found that has the sonic weight, aesthetic appeal, and spatial transparency that is apparently needed for today's audiophile components?

 

[sergeauckland]

For many years now, I've been using half-height (20U) 19" racks for my HiFi. Most of what I have is 19" rack mounted, what isn't, sits on 19" trays.

The top of my racks have turntables on them, so at the right height off the floor. Both of my turntables are suitable for drop-in mounting on a 19" rack.

I have never been aware of any benefit from an 'audiophile' rack, and indeed, if a piece of equipment is sufficiently microphonic to benefit from such mounting, it's broken as far as I'm concerned.

Stuff should be screwed into a rack and just work.


S.

 

[JeffS7444]

My point though is that some on here are convinced they don't do anything. How do they know this if there have been no measurements?

Seems to me that burden of proof falls upon those making claims about their audio shelving.

 

[GrimSurfer]

For many years now, I've been using half-height (20U) 19" racks for my HiFi. Most of what I have is 19" rack mounted, what isn't, sits on 19" trays.

The top of my racks have turntables on them, so at the right height off the floor. Both of my turntables are suitable for drop-in mounting on a 19" rack.

I have never been aware of any benefit from an 'audiophile' rack, and indeed, if a piece of equipment is sufficiently microphonic to benefit from such mounting, it's broken as far as I'm concerned.

Stuff should be screwed into a rack and just work.


S.

That was certainly the case with all the Navy equipment I've seen. The 19" racks were simple boxed steel or aluminium, bolted or welded to the deck. The equipment was bolted in place, not suspended or gimballed.

Now people may question if the gear was sensitive. Yes, it most certainly was sensitive enough to meet pretty rigid performance and test requirements for antiship missile defence, electronic warfare, and passive acoustic needs.

All of this equipment was operated in a high vibration environment... and it worked just fine with simple racks that any reasonable welder could design and build.

@sergeauckland is absolutely correct in saying that properly designed and built gear should be able to operate to spec after being screwed into the rack. If it is not rack mountable, all it should need is a reasonably flat and stable base on which to sit. And that's it.

 

[amirm]

My point though is that some on here are convinced they don't do anything. How do they know this if there have been no measurements?

It is on my Todo list to determine measurable effect vibration on equipment. In the past I have tested a Schiit and ifi headphone amp in this regard. The volume control on both was sensitive to vibrations. That occurred though with direct inducement of vibration on the control itself. Transmission of sound through air is very lossy, sans for what a subwoofer may do.

 

[amirm]

Seems to me that burden of proof falls upon those making claims about their audio shelving.

True but we could break the logjam as the other side will never do.

 

[RayDunzl]

Maybe @amirm needs to halt all testing until an acoustically and seismically stable rack is found that has the sonic weight, aesthetic appeal, and spatial transparency that is apparently needed for today's audiophile components?

And all the gear should be on the same level to null the effects of Gravitational Time Dilation on the clock speeds.

NIST: "In one set of experiments, scientists raised one of the clocks by jacking up the laser table to a height one-third of a meter (about a foot) above the second clock. Sure enough, the higher clock ran at a slightly faster rate than the lower clock, exactly as predicted."

 

[JeffS7444]

NIST: "In one set of experiments, scientists raised one of the clocks by jacking up the laser table to a height one-third of a meter (about a foot) above the second clock. Sure enough, the higher clock ran at a slightly faster rate than the lower clock, exactly as predicted."

Well shoot, no wonder my recording of John Cage's 4' 33" seemed to be off a few billionths of a second.

 

[GrimSurfer]

And all the gear should be on the same level to null the effects of Gravitational Time Dilation on the clock speeds.

NIST: "In one set of experiments, scientists raised one of the clocks by jacking up the laser table to a height one-third of a meter (about a foot) above the second clock. Sure enough, the higher clock ran at a slightly faster rate than the lower clock, exactly as predicted."

Exactly. This is the kind of thinking that we could use to justify selling ASR Rax(tm) for many thousands of dollars each. Our immense profits could fund @amirm's testing of all kinds of cool bling. This would allow him to finally get around to answering the questions that have been keeping me up at night.

1. does high end speaker performance vary by cabinet color? Do red enclosures do better at low frequencies than blue ones?

2. will the use of an exclusive British loudspeaker violate the neutrality of a Swiss CH amp? Is an exchange of diplomatic notes required to re-align the sound mid-Channel?

3. what variety of jade works best for an artisanal phono cartridge? Does diamond work better or can audiophiles on a budget "get by" with Swarovski crystal while they eat cat food and sell non-critical organs in order to save up for "the real thing"?

 

[JJB70]

I can see that rack designed to decouple a turntable from ambient vibration might be useful (assuming the turntable can't do it), but ambient vibration levels in the home are so low and solid state equipment so unaffected by vibration that imagining a rack will affect sound quality is delusional.
I spent years working on ships where ambient vibration levels could be dreadful (both frequency and magnitude) as well as rocking and rolling and it didn't affect performance. The equipment had to be type approved for the environment, but the concern was mechanical durability, not electronic performance.
funnily enough, it was also remarkably unaffected by the very dirty electrical supplies found on ships too, without expensive power conditioners.

 

[sergeauckland]

I can see that rack designed to decouple a turntable from ambient vibration might be useful (assuming the turntable can't do it), but ambient vibration levels in the home are so low and solid state equipment so unaffected by vibration that imagining a rack will affect sound quality is delusional.
I spent years working on ships where ambient vibration levels could be dreadful (both frequency and magnitude) as well as rocking and rolling and it didn't affect performance. The equipment had to be type approved for the environment, but the concern was mechanical durability, not electronic performance.
funnily enough, it was also remarkably unaffected by the very dirty electrical supplies found on ships too, without expensive power conditioners.

Exactly so!

Rack mount equipment is (Hopefully) designed to work regardless of external factors .Most studios don't move about much so it isn't an issue.

If something is affected audibly by its surroundings, then its BROKEN. !!!!

No other words would justify its status.

S.

 

[LTig]

At least they have value as a piece of furniture, unlike the quantum crystal products and the likes thereof.

If something from Ikea is an eyesore to you, then sure.

Pity - Ikea made the famous table where the Linn LP12 was supposed to sound best.

 

[LTig]

If the electronics are that microphonic, money is better spent replacing them rather than band-aids with a fancy rack. Fortunately, 99.9% of electronics don't have that level of bad design.

Don't forget tube amps. I once witnessed an audition of the big Avantgarde Acoustic Trio with 2 active subwoofers. They were driven by tube amplifiers located in a nice rack. When they played vinyl very loud the whole thing started to resonate at very low frequencies. We blamed it on the microphonic behaviour of the tubes - probably those in the phono preamp - since the distance between the speakers of the sub and the amplifier was less than 1 m. So even the rack did not help.

 

[gene_stl]

These are the racks I kept...
View attachment 36689View attachment 36690

May I ask about how much those cost you to put together. I have always liked the 80/20 erector sets and considered building a rack out of it.
I may add some 80/20 struts to my aluminum server rack to add tip over stability. But I may just use some hardwood and put a nice finish on it.