PrimaLuna Dialogue Seven Tube Amp Review

[fpitas]

Didn't 0.1% (-60 dB) use to be the "gold standard" for amps in 50s/60s? If so, this one would fail such a test, and obviously so in the bass.

Yes, and good amps reached that level. We're going backwards.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Yes, and good amps reached that level. We're going backwards.

I think something else has been going on. For decades now, designers have known how to produce well performing amps, but some audiophiles consider them "sterile", "boring", and "all the same" and want something with "colour", "warmth", and "texture". If they look impressive, in a steam punk sort of way, so much the better. IMO amps like the DUT are designed for that market deliberately, not through incompetence.

 

[fpitas]

IMO amps like the DUT are designed for that market deliberately, not through incompetence.

I really hope you're right.

 

[Ra1zel]

People did better than this in 1950...

Let that sink in

 

[Rottmannash]

Nah... It is distortion in Italian. Read it as: "dis tor tino!"

Being a dumb redneck some part of me knew it sounded "like" distortion" but instead of going with my gut I decided to spell-check you. Sorry. I like the Italian version as it rolls off the tongue.

 

[Mojo Warrior]

This is a completely valid test of this tube equipment. This is exactly how it would sound and measure some time after purchase either new or old. An owner cannot change to fresh new tubes every time they want to play music. If your equipment ages this badly, it is time to change.

It is a good technical example of what "tube sound" actually is.

 

[Bob from Florida]

I will state with 99% certainty that more feedback won't help (the response curves show that stability is already questionable), the problem is in the open loop performance as well as grounding. And included in that 99% is my confidence that they made design errors stemming from a cut and paste approach. As Morgan Jones would say, "Heavily designed, lightly engineered."

SIY - If amir measured your Red Light amp, what would you expect?

 

[DanielT]

I took that advice and went a step further with SS for the horn section. I leave all the glowing to the room lights.

It seems to make sense, as long as you don't use some cheap class D amp to drive the tweeters because many of them are plagued with load dependencies that affect the FR.
I know you know this, mention it to others who read this thread.

An example, among many, Amir:
"We have our usual load dependency which exists in budget class D amplifier implementations:"

SMSL A300 Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL A300 stereo class D amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $196. The A300 is slick looking with flush volume control and switches. Alas, I am not a fan of the blue LED display from aesthetic point of view. It is nice...

audiosciencereview.com

The older you get the more the ability to hear higher frequencies decreases, which you know. I mentions it anyway, and with that the problems with FR in the higher frequencies become less of a problem.
You have to see the positives of getting older.
(applies to everyone, including me of course)

 

[fpitas]

It seems to make sense, as long as you don't use some cheap class D amp to drive the tweeters

So far the J2 does just fine. No First Watt amp has broken yet, so I might have it a long time.

 

[SIY]

SIY - If amir measured your Red Light amp, what would you expect?

Pretty similar results to the measurements I took many years ago using a soundcard. I compromised a bit on distortion to make it easier to build, but the distortion was still low enough to stay below the audibility waterline. With a bit more circuit complexity (I only have one tube as input amp and phase splitter), I could probably drop the distortion another 10-15dB.

The thing I optimized it for was overload recovery, the real weak point of conventional tube designs, and this is not part of Amir's measurement suite. At the point when I find it (it's somewhere in a pile of boxes in my garage waiting for me to do my Schliemann imitation), I'll run the measurements on the AP in my lab and post them.

 

[rdenney]

I feel bad for the member that owns it.

But you do have to respect him--he had to have known how it would turn out.

Rick "he can probably list it on Audiogon and make money on it" Denney

 

[fpitas]

But you do have to respect him--he had to have known how it would turn out.

Rick "he can probably list it on Audiogon and make money on it" Denney

Yeah, over there they'll pay more just because Amir panned it.

 

[Mart68]

Yeah, over there they'll pay more just because Amir panned it.

all the valve equipment I have posted for sale over the years (not on ebay, just on a couple of forums) has flown out, mostly within hours. Some people can't get enough of it.

 

[30 Ounce]

PrimaLuna has always made tube gear that sounds like what some people expect tube gear to sound like.

 

[Kevinfc]

There's no sensible reason in 2023 to have a tube powered hi-fi power amplifier, nor was there in the 2000s or even much after about 1970.

That said, having five different DACs, 4 headphone amplifiers and a pile of headphones for a desktop 'rig' is hardly sensible either, is it?

At some stage, all audiophiles/HiFi nuts decide they want 'to give tubes a go', just for fun. My time with tubes was short lived in the early-mid 2000s. No desire to return to them, even though I've had some nice tube gear across my lab bench.

I wish I was more sensible in the mid ‘90’s. The shear weight of my giant tube amp makes it difficult to rid myself of it.

 

[fpitas]

I guess I was lucky I never had the masochistic streak to want tubes..

 

[mhardy6647]

I guess I was lucky I never had the masochistic streak to want tubes..

I... guess...

 

[ExUnoPlura]

I will have you all know that in the newest Stereophile (October 23), one review and one article pointedly take shots at those who "prioritize measurements over 'subjective' listening" (in the case of Manley Mahi tube amps review) and with a bit of a high brow insult (quoting Krishnamurti where, in fact, the meaning of the quote might not apply...see following), and then again asserts that all audio reproduction technology has "a flavor" even after suggesting there might be a goal of "neutrality, transparency, and vanishingly low distortion" because, you know, it might be desirable to not color the original recording and engineered intent of the artist. The other article bemoans that "objectivists" never invite the author to listen to cool systems...

In any case, there seems to be some recent sensitivity in the audiophile community to increased interest in measurements. Boo hoo.

 

[fpitas]

I... guess...

That leaves more of them for you!

 

[amirm]

Amir, you don't make it clear if the price is for one or a pair. Are we talking >$5k for adding so much distortion to a system?

Price is for each so it will indeed set you back over 5000 for a pair.