PMC Twenty.21 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[ttimer]

Not bad, especiall the bass extension. Directivity might be a bit iffy in its class. But holy sh*t, those are probably the ugliest speakers... ...in the world.

 

[sergeauckland]

Those are the ones I first heard at the BBC, which made me favourably disposed to PMC. Heard them since elsewhere, and was still favourably impressed. They're about the only 'speakers I would change my 801s for (possibly without the bass extender, a bit of overkill for home).

It shows that PMC are quite capable of designing a competent loudspeaker.

S.

 

[tuga]

Those are the ones I first heard at the BBC, which made me favourably disposed to PMC. Heard them since elsewhere, and was still favourably impressed. They're about the only 'speakers I would change my 801s for (possibly without the bass extender, a bit of overkill for home).

It shows that PMC are quite capable of designing a competent loudspeaker.

S.

The thing about large speakers is that they sound much more effortless and the bass is so much cleaner and deeper that one can easily drop guard and become more forgiving.
A typical example is many people's jaw-dropping first encounter with large Wilsons at shows.

Most of these small standmounts (and even floorstanders) with 5" or 6" mid-woofers being measured at ASR pale so much in comparison it's almost risible...

 

[sergeauckland]

The thing about large speakers is that they sound much more effortless and the bass is so much cleaner and deeper that one can easily drop guard and become more forgiving.
A typical example is many people's jaw-dropping first encounter with large Wilsons at shows.

Most of these small standmounts (and even floorstanders) with 5" or 6" mid-woofers being measured at ASR pale so much in comparison it's almost risible...

Perhaps, but the few times I've heard Wilsons, (at one HiFi show and Scalford) I thought they were horribly coloured and wouldn't give them houseroom. As far as small loudspeakers go, I use my JR149s in my study, more for speech and editing audio files than listening to music. I did use my Genelec 1029As as 'main speakers', actually only speakers, in my holiday cottage and they were fine for that purpose. I now use them as rear 'speakers for Quadraphonics.

Having had 'large' 'speakers since the early 1970s, I am much more likely to be forgiving of small loudspeakers' limitations than I am to be of large loudspeakers' colorations. Small loudspeakers can't help their limitations, there's no excuse for large 'uns.

S.

 

[Purité Audio]

Those are the ones I first heard at the BBC, which made me favourably disposed to PMC. Heard them since elsewhere, and was still favourably impressed. They're about the only 'speakers I would change my 801s for (possibly without the bass extender, a bit of overkill for home).

It shows that PMC are quite capable of designing a competent loudspeaker.

S.

Which makes the relatively poor performance of their domestic range even more puzzling.
Keith

 

[Spocko]

I don't think that neutrality is one of his standards anyway.

I don't think he's met a speaker he didn't like.

 

[JRcat]

Rough review and hard criticism for a company that's generally regarded as producing top of the line stuff. I'm not going to discount Amir's scientific review, but I would like to recommend everybody to keep an open mind. In the end, Amir is only 1 person testing 1 single item/product. The strength of a brand should be based on the experience of the many. In the end, measurements are only that; measurements. Listening to audio, like so many other things, is a subjective experience. For example: Your watch might not be the most accurate watch out there but it doesn't mean that it's a bad watch. You might really personally like the design and it might compliment you. It's the same for audio/speakers.
That being said; I now want to listen to scientifically perfect speakers (without having to do all the room EQ)! I happen to own PMC LB1's (which I was able to get for $100 from a guy who didn't know what he was selling) and they have been great speakers to me. I know that I could easily do much better these days as audio technology has improved. I was looking at PMC's professional lines, like the PMC IB2. Unfortunately I haven't really been able to find any good reviews. But now with all the bad reviews that PMC's been getting if somebody wants to sell me some for cheap, let me know!

 

[q3cpma]

Rough review and hard criticism for a company that's generally regarded as producing top of the line stuff. I'm not going to discount Amir's scientific review, but I would like to recommend everybody to keep an open mind. In the end, Amir is only 1 person testing 1 single item/product. The strength of a brand should be based on the experience of the many. In the end, measurements are only that; measurements. Listening to audio, like so many other things, is a subjective experience. For example: Your watch might not be the most accurate watch out there but it doesn't mean that it's a bad watch. You might really personally like the design and it might compliment you. It's the same for audio/speakers.
That being said; I now want to listen to scientifically perfect speakers (without having to do all the room EQ)! I happen to own PMC LB1's (which I was able to get for $100 from a guy who didn't know what he was selling) and they have been great speakers to me. I know that I could easily do much better these days as audio technology has improved. I was looking at PMC's professional lines, like the PMC IB2. Unfortunately I haven't really been able to find any good reviews. But now with all the bad reviews that PMC's been getting if somebody wants to sell me some for cheap, let me know!

Uh-huh.

 

[Dialectic]

Rough review and hard criticism for a company that's generally regarded as producing top of the line stuff. I'm not going to discount Amir's scientific review, but I would like to recommend everybody to keep an open mind. In the end, Amir is only 1 person testing 1 single item/product. The strength of a brand should be based on the experience of the many. In the end, measurements are only that; measurements. Listening to audio, like so many other things, is a subjective experience. For example: Your watch might not be the most accurate watch out there but it doesn't mean that it's a bad watch. You might really personally like the design and it might compliment you. It's the same for audio/speakers.
That being said; I now want to listen to scientifically perfect speakers (without having to do all the room EQ)! I happen to own PMC LB1's (which I was able to get for $100 from a guy who didn't know what he was selling) and they have been great speakers to me. I know that I could easily do much better these days as audio technology has improved. I was looking at PMC's professional lines, like the PMC IB2. Unfortunately I haven't really been able to find any good reviews. But now with all the bad reviews that PMC's been getting if somebody wants to sell me some for cheap, let me know!

This loudspeaker is incompetently designed and obscenely priced. There is no excuse to be made for PMC here.

 

[Koeitje]

Rough review and hard criticism for a company that's generally regarded as producing top of the line stuff. I'm not going to discount Amir's scientific review, but I would like to recommend everybody to keep an open mind. In the end, Amir is only 1 person testing 1 single item/product. The strength of a brand should be based on the experience of the many. In the end, measurements are only that; measurements. Listening to audio, like so many other things, is a subjective experience. For example: Your watch might not be the most accurate watch out there but it doesn't mean that it's a bad watch. You might really personally like the design and it might compliment you. It's the same for audio/speakers.
That being said; I now want to listen to scientifically perfect speakers (without having to do all the room EQ)! I happen to own PMC LB1's (which I was able to get for $100 from a guy who didn't know what he was selling) and they have been great speakers to me. I know that I could easily do much better these days as audio technology has improved. I was looking at PMC's professional lines, like the PMC IB2. Unfortunately I haven't really been able to find any good reviews. But now with all the bad reviews that PMC's been getting if somebody wants to sell me some for cheap, let me know!

I owned PMC Twenty.22's, absolute garbage speakers. Very bad low-end with a lot of distortion and way too bright treble. All other reviews I've seen for PMC show the same issues.

 

[BYRTT]

Rough review and hard criticism for a company that's generally regarded as producing top of the line stuff. I'm not going to discount Amir's scientific review, but I would like to recommend everybody to keep an open mind. In the end, Amir is only 1 person testing 1 single item/product. The strength of a brand should be based on the experience of the many. In the end, measurements are only that; measurements. Listening to audio, like so many other things, is a subjective experience. For example: Your watch might not be the most accurate watch out there but it doesn't mean that it's a bad watch. You might really personally like the design and it might compliment you. It's the same for audio/speakers.
That being said; I now want to listen to scientifically perfect speakers (without having to do all the room EQ)! I happen to own PMC LB1's (which I was able to get for $100 from a guy who didn't know what he was selling) and they have been great speakers to me. I know that I could easily do much better these days as audio technology has improved. I was looking at PMC's professional lines, like the PMC IB2. Unfortunately I haven't really been able to find any good reviews. But now with all the bad reviews that PMC's been getting if somebody wants to sell me some for cheap, let me know!

Relaxed opinion about analyzed objective performance and value fine enough feel free but some published measurement from manufacture was the least they could do to hint customers where we are and get respect, was it a flat panel with that objective data and class of costs pretty shure customers would notice and move on to another one..

 

[richard12511]

I wear a G-Shock, and it's more accurate than any of my colleagues' Rolexes, Carriers, Vacherons and APs. But they don't pretend that their man-jewelry is accurate.

This loudspeaker is incompetently designed and obscenely priced. There is no excuse to be made for PMC here.

Agreed.

Rolexes don't pretend that they're the most accurate watches. PMCs do pretend that they're the most accurate speakers.

 

[xykreinov]

PMC is a kind of goal for some and their studios.

I just dug this up on Halloween. Very spooky fact....

 

[sfdoddsy]

What is the chance of a speaker which doesn't produce a flat anechoic frequency response on-axis ever doing it in-room at the listening spot?

If you EQ it you can get any response you like.



The Anthem ARC I use allows me to EQ out the room modes and then dial in any tilt I desire.

It's easy to do on a MiniDSP too.

But of course the theory most here operate on is that you do not want flat on-axis response at the listening position.

Back on topic I briefly owned a pair of PMC Twenty.23. I though they sounded exactly as one would expect from their measurements in my room and from Amir's anechoic ones.

I find their popularity as mystifying as that of recent B&W speakers.

 

[tuga]

If you EQ it you can get any response you like.

You can with speakers which produce constant controlled horizontal directivity you can but not if the speaker's horizontal response off-axis is very different from on-axis.
In fact several speakers that are flat on-axis but produce a dip of increasing amplitude as you move away from the axis horizontally.
(the M30 is not flat on-axis, this plot is only meant to show the change in directivity where to mid-woofer crosses to the tweeter)

But of course the theory most here operate on is that you do not want flat on-axis response at the listening position.

If by "here" you mean ASR then I think that most here do want a flat on-axis response.

 

[andreasmaaan]

German Stereo has tested one of the really large ones (MB2 XBD SE):

https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/produkt/pmc-mb2-xbd-se-1514

Low-frequency extension (-3dBSPL): 22 Hz
Harmonic Distortion: 63 HZ - 0,3% ; 3 kHZ - 0,03% ; 10k Hz - 0,03 %

First PMCs I've seen where the speakers are more hideous than the measurements.

 

[andreasmaaan]

You can with speakers which produce constant horizontal directivity you can but not if the speaker's horizontal response off-axis is very different from on-axis.

100% agree, but presume you meant "controlled" rather than "constant"?

 

[bobbooo]

If by "here" you mean ASR then I think that most here do want a flat on-axis response.

They said flat on-axis at the listening position, so I presume they were talking about in-room response there, not anechoic.

 

[andreasmaaan]

They said flat on-axis at the listening position, so I presume they were talking about in-room response there, no anechoic.

Not likely around here What you read must have been poorly communicated.

 

[bobbooo]

Not likely around here What you read must have been poorly communicated.

Huh? They said (my emphasis):

But of course the theory most here operate on is that you do not want flat on-axis response at the listening position.