PMC Twenty.21 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[andreasmaaan]

Huh? They said (my emphasis):

Haha, seems now I've only added to the miscommunications - sorry.

The consensus here is that the speaker should be flat on-axis under anechoic conditions. That will typically result in a downward-sloping in-room response at the listening position.

This is consistent with sfdoddy's post that you quoted.

 

[tuga]

They said flat on-axis at the listening position, so I presume they were talking about in-room response there, not anechoic.

If at the listening position then I agree. Something like this sounds good to me:

 

[sfdoddsy]

Isn't the starting point for all the measurements Amirm and others do here is that you do not want flat response at the listening position, but rather flat anechoic response.

Which leads to a downward sloping response at the listening position.

 

[slajmerr]

Hello!

I dont want to be the party breaker but since I got my DB1S-AII i cant listen to my yamaha hs80m anymore. The Pmcs are way clearer, no range is smeared and I can exactly tell if you did a good or bad mixdown or master.

Yamahas are flat,yeah. But you feel what is right and wrong in the DBs more. And they are like a crystal compared to hs80. you feel the toms like they would play next to you. sound separation is more important than a flat response.

There is no such thing as flat monitors for a normal human beeing that doesnt live in a fuckin anechoic cave.

How manny of you actually did listen to a Two Two 6 or 8. Or PMC DB1 Gold with a D class amplifier? I mean how you dissed the whole company just because of a few measurements on fuckin 20 pages. The clearness is important, you can always fix the curve with sonarworks or some other calibration software.

NS10 are also not perfectly neutral and are used for thousands for years now.

 

[Beave]

Yeah ya bunch of morans!

 

[mlilliman]

Firstly, thank you for this review and the countless others. This is now my goto website for shortlisting equipment, so thank you for the content and the community.

Secondly, a confession... I own these PMC Twenty 21 speakers . I bought them blind from Lintone Audio when they were on offer prior to the Twenty5 range being released. I'm smiling as I write this as I've been on a merry-go-round changing DAC, amplifier and cables in order to tame the bright sound signature. Given the brand's reputation, it didn't occur to me that the speakers were the culprit.

I remember after a week or so of ownership, that I contacted the dealer to ask how long they need to 'fill out'. He asked me what my source was, and when I said Spotify Connect, he said something along the lines of, "you don't run a Ferrari on unleaded"! I don't even think I'm paraphrasing, I kid you not.

Actually, there's some truth in what he said. I've recently started using Amazon Music HD, and these speakers are very enjoyable with hi-res recordings. With such an increased treble response, they shine a light (some might say lighthouse) on the higher frequencies in the recording, with the consequence that lossy and poor recordings are revealed a little too starkly.

I'm going to end the story quite positively, however. I've found a semblance of system synergy with the Topping E30 DAC and Rega Brio amp (2017 model - the earlier Brio R was brighter and less gutsy). And it only dawned on me after swapping the speakers out for a week or two.

After initially reading Amir's review, my response was one of horror, slowly followed by a dawning acceptance that the measured results were accurate and correct. I immediately swapped the PMC's out for a pair of Monitor Audio GX50's, which were my main speakers before the PMC's and I hadn't sold them. I grinned as bass filled my living room and I could bask in a fuller tonal balance. Even Spotify was listenable again.

But... the Monitor Audio's only sounded balanced on-axis. I don't have a dedicated room for listening and can't position my seat at the apex of where the two speakers cross, like one should. I typically sit closer to the side of the room or am walking through, and the Monitor Audio's lack some sparkle or energy when listening this way. I was sat listening this evening and felt something was lacking - a bit like how Amir described the KEF R3, despite it measuring so well.

The other point I wanted to make, and this is subjective, is that somehow the PMC's have a sweetness to their sound. The treble is obvious but not harsh, and the bass is lean, fast and tuneful. I can probably describe it better with the help of a song choice: Playing Hysteria from Muse's Absolution album, the presentation as a whole is exhilarating; at no point does the system struggle with delivering the drum and guitar onslaught. Granted, there isn't the weight that the GX50's provide, but I found the PMC's "tuning" to be more enjoyable.

And I think, that's the crux of all this really. The PMC Twenty 21's are not monitors (the irony of that isn't lost on me). They've been equalised to sound a certain way.

 

[mlilliman]

Made time for a critical listening session this morning. Long story short, the Monitor Audio GX50's are back in the system. I resolved the muffled sound compared to the PMC's by moving them out further from the rear wall - they were booming a little.

Put simply, the PMC's rob music of the grunge factor. Communicative, cohesive and expressive - just unbalanced and not enough oomph for my liking.

 

[keenly]

I found these speakers to be over bearing in the mid range and produce sibilance in most vocals.

 

[Bernard23]

I'm new to this site, and I'm currently working my way through the entire test database to read the reviews on the equipment I have heard (I have no means to test any of it, just ears), and so far the two key ones are these and the cambridge audio dacmagic +. Thus far, my ears are aligned with your testing, especially these speakers, I wondered what kind of hell I had walked into when I auditioned them at home some years ago when they were the darling of the hifi press. Now I can sleep a little more easily, thank you.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Hello!

I dont want to be the party breaker but since I got my DB1S-AII i cant listen to my yamaha hs80m anymore. The Pmcs are way clearer, no range is smeared and I can exactly tell if you did a good or bad mixdown or master.

Yamahas are flat,yeah. But you feel what is right and wrong in the DBs more. And they are like a crystal compared to hs80. you feel the toms like they would play next to you. sound separation is more important than a flat response.

There is no such thing as flat monitors for a normal human beeing that doesnt live in a fuckin anechoic cave.

How manny of you actually did listen to a Two Two 6 or 8. Or PMC DB1 Gold with a D class amplifier? I mean how you dissed the whole company just because of a few measurements on fuckin 20 pages. The clearness is important, you can always fix the curve with sonarworks or some other calibration software.

NS10 are also not perfectly neutral and are used for thousands for years now.

Yes we live and listen in normal rooms , but that does not make PMC sound good either . I guy I know has tried to sell his high end PMC MB2 for 6 months , no winder he can’t sell them they sound strange, and measure horrible . Flawed by design with few exceptions. NS10 are also a failure that only add to the circle of confusion

 

[Bernard23]

To be fair to PMC this is just one design. There are other options, albeit expensive, but sound much better under the same conditions.

 

[Aventador_SVJ]

I remember borrowing some PMC FB1's from a hifi dealer and tested them for 3 weeks.

I really like the look of the PMC speakers but my goodness, I was very unhappy with the FB1's sound signature, especially in the bass region (where the TL is supposed to excel).

I then came across a review in I think Hifi News or one of the more objective based magazines and they tested a bunch of £1000-1500 speakers from PMC FB1, Castle, Spendor, some other hifi affiliated brands and some Focal (JMLabs) Cobalt 816 and with the focus on the objective measurements, the Focal's easily won the test, citing the transient response, low distortion figures, good frequency response and bass extension as the reasons.

I had never heard of Focal (JMLabs) at the time and I had to travel over 60 miles to find a dealer - this is quite far to travel in the UK so bear with me

I actually tested the Cobalt 816S that had the upgraded tweeter from the Electra range and was absolutely blown away with the sound and purchased these.

My local hifi dealer (that stocked PMC, B&W speakers) actually started stocking Focal speakers after my glowing recommendation and I tried where possible to purchase only products with great objective measurements from then on, as there is clearly a correlation to sound quality.

I have heard some higher end PMC speakers that I thought were rather good (think they were called PMC IB1) but these are very expensive - I think these would measure much better objectively.

It would be great to see a review of some higher end PMC speakers and even some Focal speakers with their 'w' sandwich cones and beryllium tweeters, as (before I discovered this site), I always thought Focal was one of few companies that produced speakers based on objectivity.

Now I know that Revel, Neumann and Genelec appear to be the reference choice but I would be surprised if Focal's higher end speakers (beyond the Aria 906 which I have in my bedroom) and PMC speakers like the IB1 didn't perform well.

 

[dfuller]

I would be surprised if [...] PMC speakers like the IB1 didn't perform well.

Well... Their higher end stuff hasn't done particularly well elsewhere.

 

[Spocko]

I remember borrowing some PMC FB1's from a hifi dealer and tested them for 3 weeks.

I really like the look of the PMC speakers but my goodness, I was very unhappy with the FB1's sound signature, especially in the bass region (where the TL is supposed to excel).

I then came across a review in I think Hifi News or one of the more objective based magazines and they tested a bunch of £1000-1500 speakers from PMC FB1, Castle, Spendor, some other hifi affiliated brands and some Focal (JMLabs) Cobalt 816 and with the focus on the objective measurements, the Focal's easily won the test, citing the transient response, low distortion figures, good frequency response and bass extension as the reasons.

I had never heard of Focal (JMLabs) at the time and I had to travel over 60 miles to find a dealer - this is quite far to travel in the UK so bear with me

I actually tested the Cobalt 816S that had the upgraded tweeter from the Electra range and was absolutely blown away with the sound and purchased these.

My local hifi dealer (that stocked PMC, B&W speakers) actually started stocking Focal speakers after my glowing recommendation and I tried where possible to purchase only products with great objective measurements from then on, as there is clearly a correlation to sound quality.

I have heard some higher end PMC speakers that I thought were rather good (think they were called PMC IB1) but these are very expensive - I think these would measure much better objectively.

It would be great to see a review of some higher end PMC speakers and even some Focal speakers with their 'w' sandwich cones and beryllium tweeters, as (before I discovered this site), I always thought Focal was one of few companies that produced speakers based on objectivity.

Now I know that Revel, Neumann and Genelec appear to be the reference choice but I would be surprised if Focal's higher end speakers (beyond the Aria 906 which I have in my bedroom) and PMC speakers like the IB1 didn't perform well.

Focal Trio 11 Be professional monitors definitely appear promising as they were designed to be neutral for pro use.

 

[Aventador_SVJ]

Focal Trio 11 Be professional monitors definitely appear promising as they were designed to be neutral for pro use.

I very nearly purchased the Solo Be recently but as I am used to floor standers with a circa 30Hz response, I felt that I would need to accompany them with a subwoofer.

 

[dfuller]

Focal Trio 11 Be professional monitors definitely appear promising as they were designed to be neutral for pro use.

The review in Sound and Recording is impressive - especially the 3% THD SPL levels! These things get crazy loud before serious distortion - I guess there really is something to Focal's W cones...

 

[617]

The review in Sound and Recording is impressive - especially the 3% THD SPL levels! These things get crazy loud before serious distortion - I guess there really is something to Focal's W cones...

The focals weigh over 80 pounds each. Big ass speaker. Nice design, would love to see them on the NFS.

 

[holbob]

Just seen this thread. I saved up for 2 years (my wife and I are poorly paid) to buy a "high end" pair of speakers, and in 2013 splashed out on some twenty 22 (at the time darling of UK hifi forums) - trading in some Castle Richmond 3i. Immediately regretted it, always felt thin sounding to me and I had massive buyers remorse tinged with guilt. Sold them for small loss 2 years later - replacing them with xtz 99.25, less than half the price of the pmc. Kept xtz for 5 years until seeing the DBR62 review from our Dear Leader. Halved price of xtz. So now I have speakers a 5th the price of the pmc, that I adore at least a 10th the amount. Thank god for this forum

 

[Spocko]

Just seen this thread. I saved up for 2 years (my wife and I are poorly paid) to buy a "high end" pair of speakers, and in 2013 splashed out on some twenty 22 (at the time darling of UK hifi forums) - trading in some Castle Richmond 3i. Immediately regretted it, always felt thin sounding to me and I had massive buyers remorse tinged with guilt. Sold them for small loss 2 years later - replacing them with xtz 99.25, less than half the price of the pmc. Kept xtz for 5 years until seeing the DBR62 review from our Dear Leader. Halved price of xtz. So now I have speakers a 5th the price of the pmc, that I adore at least a 10th the amount. Thank god for this forum

YES, the DBR62 is pretty amazing and is my go to recommendation to everyday consumers wondering what 'high end' sounds like

 

[keenly]

I bought these then returned them. Horrible sibilance.