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PMC Twenty.21 Bookshelf Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
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No it doesn't. The bass wave passes thru 'relatively' easily compared to higher->high frequency. Low frequency reinforcement at a precise octave range is one benefit.
DanielT
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dickiefunk
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Has anyone had any experience with the PMC Result6?
I saw this review some while back, and thought I’d better reply, especially given that most if not all the people who comment have not heard these speakers.
Regarding the comment on the bass being weird, it isn’t, at least not in my opinion. Kettle drums in Britten’s Sinfonia de Requiem, for example, are very realistic. Listening to a range of music, classical (Shostakovich, Britten, Janacek, Vaughan Williams), folk (Pentangle, Joan Baez etc), heavy rock (AC/DC, Mountain, Motorhead etc), other (Melt Banana, Louise Attaque etc), the rendition is very natural with excellent bass definition. Orchestral in particular is very realistic. I believe my sitting room has very good acoustics, as it compares well with a local shop’s listening room. (I have solid concrete block walls and a carpeted floor.)
Yes I own these speakers. When buying I also auditioned the Spendor A1 and Mission Audio GX 50 speakers at home, and several others in shops. The PMC’s were easily the best IMO. Today I listened to Jern Model 11 speakers, there was no comparison. The PMC has excellent definition, and excellent bass extension. I am using an AudioLab 6000a amp, which has a neutral sound. Music is streamed, from Spotify and my own CD quality library. Of course this is my subjective opinion, listening with my 59 year old ears. But my view is that for speakers, ignore reviews, listen to as many in your price range as you can, preferably at home, and select the ones that you like.
In contrast, for amps, and DACs, I consider measurements by amirm and others invaluable. For example I own a Chord Mojo, which failed after three years. I agree wholeheatedly with the review on this forum that considers it massively overpriced, with an awful UI.
Regarding the comment on the bass being weird, it isn’t, at least not in my opinion. Kettle drums in Britten’s Sinfonia de Requiem, for example, are very realistic. Listening to a range of music, classical (Shostakovich, Britten, Janacek, Vaughan Williams), folk (Pentangle, Joan Baez etc), heavy rock (AC/DC, Mountain, Motorhead etc), other (Melt Banana, Louise Attaque etc), the rendition is very natural with excellent bass definition. Orchestral in particular is very realistic. I believe my sitting room has very good acoustics, as it compares well with a local shop’s listening room. (I have solid concrete block walls and a carpeted floor.)
Yes I own these speakers. When buying I also auditioned the Spendor A1 and Mission Audio GX 50 speakers at home, and several others in shops. The PMC’s were easily the best IMO. Today I listened to Jern Model 11 speakers, there was no comparison. The PMC has excellent definition, and excellent bass extension. I am using an AudioLab 6000a amp, which has a neutral sound. Music is streamed, from Spotify and my own CD quality library. Of course this is my subjective opinion, listening with my 59 year old ears. But my view is that for speakers, ignore reviews, listen to as many in your price range as you can, preferably at home, and select the ones that you like.
In contrast, for amps, and DACs, I consider measurements by amirm and others invaluable. For example I own a Chord Mojo, which failed after three years. I agree wholeheatedly with the review on this forum that considers it massively overpriced, with an awful UI.
Bernard23
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I had them on home audition, many years ago, they didn't last long. Massive disappointment and baffled as to why they were so well reviewed by the press (actually it's not baffling at all, that's another story).
Hi Leif, I also owned PMC, i think your earing is just getting used to the absolutely wrong frequency response of them. I also had the same way of thinking, that should be flipped the other way round. You don't need speakers that accomodate your taste. You need your taste to accomodate to good (objectively good) speakers.
I am now a happy owner of objectively good speakers, and objectively speaking i cannot have any reasonable regret.
So, on the topic of PMC.
The 6-2 is a generally decent speaker. I don't know if I'd pay $10,000 for a pair, but they're not bad. A bit tilted up up top, but this could be corrected via the internal DSP with little issue. They put out a staggering amount of LF content for their size, and they're not very big. A little scooped in the low mids but nothing inherently offensive, I'd say.
The 8-2 is a dumpster fire. Everything that is right about the 6-2 is flat out freaking wrong on them.
The 6-2 is a generally decent speaker. I don't know if I'd pay $10,000 for a pair, but they're not bad. A bit tilted up up top, but this could be corrected via the internal DSP with little issue. They put out a staggering amount of LF content for their size, and they're not very big. A little scooped in the low mids but nothing inherently offensive, I'd say.
The 8-2 is a dumpster fire. Everything that is right about the 6-2 is flat out freaking wrong on them.
And that is why people need to try speakers for themselves. I use mine in a small room, about 4 m by 5.5m, with concrete block and plaster walls. Acoustics compare well with a local hifi shop’s listening room.
You probably found that they are very sensitive to placement, they seem to be designed to work close to a wall. Mine are 6" from the rear wall. Further away and the sound changes significantly for the worse. I do wonder if the measurements take this into account, I don’t think they do, but I could be mistaken.
As for the press, that sounds like an insinuation. All companies use marketing. PMC are very well regarded among customers. In the UK I believe most speaker buyers audition speakers, it would be foolish to buy on the basis of reviews. I recently listened to some beautiful cannon ball speakers which got numerous glowing reviews. Suffice to say I found them disappointing.
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As I said, I auditioned a range of speakers. I think I can assess overall tonal balance, as well as detail. With a Shostakovich symphony, or a Bert Jansch song, if it sounds realistic, that does it for me. My headphones don’t magically become excellent with use. My HD600 is still unexciting and lacking in bass, but better than cheaper products, my Audeze Sine was always far more engaging, my Bose is always mediocre.
Bernard23
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Agreed, at the end of the day, if you don't like the sound they produce in your home, pointless buying them irrespective of how they measure. At the time, I presumed they measured well, because the popular UK press raved about them, I was massively underwhelmed, wherever I put them! From memory, I bought some ProAc D18 instead, much nicer sounding.
The 8-2 is substantially improved by shelving the highs down... As usual with PMCs, they're just tuned way too bright. Pulling the low mids up slightly helps too.
I recently replaced my Arcam Solo Movie when it starting failing, and I decided to listen to a few other speakers. As I was curious I tried the Kef LS50 Meta, and bought them. The PMC were sold a couple of days ago. The PMCs are nicely made with a well braced cabinet, and lovely veneer work, with no obvious resonances but the sound is strongly voiced. They are not alone. The speakers I originally tested them against are also strongly voiced, it seems to be a feature of many brands of speaker. Maybe this is a feature of many British brands. The Kefs on the other hand have a relatively flat frequency response, which means that they work for all genres of music. They even work well with poor recordings, perhaps because they reveal everything.
I was lucky, I got an amp (AudioLab 6000a) and speakers for £1,500. After buying the amp, they subsequently agreed to sell the speakers as part of a package, the separates price was at the time £1,850. Oh and £80 for a Wiim Mini.
The Kefs are mediocre according to the guy who runs GR Research, but he has his own kit to flog.
Before buying the Kefs, I auditioned some Jerns which look like cannon balls and cost £1,000. They were beautifully made, but the sound was not there. I asked to try the PMC Twenty5.21i that cost £2,250 for comparison. The PMCs sounded much better albeit bright. The two shop staff members told me I would have to spend at least £5,000 to get better than the PMCs. I don’t remember wearing my "I’m a mug, fleece me" t-shirt, evidently my memory is not good.
I was lucky, I got an amp (AudioLab 6000a) and speakers for £1,500. After buying the amp, they subsequently agreed to sell the speakers as part of a package, the separates price was at the time £1,850. Oh and £80 for a Wiim Mini.
The Kefs are mediocre according to the guy who runs GR Research, but he has his own kit to flog.
Before buying the Kefs, I auditioned some Jerns which look like cannon balls and cost £1,000. They were beautifully made, but the sound was not there. I asked to try the PMC Twenty5.21i that cost £2,250 for comparison. The PMCs sounded much better albeit bright. The two shop staff members told me I would have to spend at least £5,000 to get better than the PMCs. I don’t remember wearing my "I’m a mug, fleece me" t-shirt, evidently my memory is not good.
JLGF1
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DR says that about every speaker until you buy his upgraded xovers; his credibility is highly suspect. Check out the ASR review of the LGK (Little Giant Killer) if you want to read more about mediocre. DR has also verbally trashed the speaker that ASR rates with one of the highest pref scores.
To put it bluntly he is full of BS. He preaches his version of electronics and stuff that has some to do with reality and then he goes right into snake oil sales of his stuff.
This thread is a bit of an echo chamber, I wouldn't take as gospel a lot of what has been said (regergitated).
Hi-Fi History: The IMF Reference Standard Professional Monitor | The Transmission Line Speaker - The Absolute Sound
Hi-Fi History: The IMF Reference Standard Professional Monitor | The Transmission Line Speaker - In this episode of Hi-Fi History, Tom Martin talks about the IMF Reference Standard Professional Monitor, its history, and why transmission line speakers, if they're so effective, are no longer in vogue.
www.theabsolutesound.com
They are nothing like a sealed box or bass reflex.
I have a pair of PMC TB1 on stands. They have a cigarette burn on the left speaker. I got them from a well known musicians studio (ex-Paul Young session player) in the French Alps when he passed away after a nasty fall. My TB1's use VIFA tweeters and woofers made in Denmark. The VIFA company no longer makes them and all the machines have gone to China. The VIFA line is still available online. The way this loudpeakers is built really surpised me as the transmission line is quite comlplexe. I am currently repairing the damage to the veneer and a crack in rear wood joints. I find the sound them extremly articulate and really nice firm bass. They're not as good as my Jean Marie Reynaud Cantibile floorstanders which are also transmission line but, I really like them.I remember borrowing some PMC FB1's from a hifi dealer and tested them for 3 weeks.
I really like the look of the PMC speakers but my goodness, I was very unhappy with the FB1's sound signature, especially in the bass region (where the TL is supposed to excel).
I then came across a review in I think Hifi News or one of the more objective based magazines and they tested a bunch of £1000-1500 speakers from PMC FB1, Castle, Spendor, some other hifi affiliated brands and some Focal (JMLabs) Cobalt 816 and with the focus on the objective measurements, the Focal's easily won the test, citing the transient response, low distortion figures, good frequency response and bass extension as the reasons.
I had never heard of Focal (JMLabs) at the time and I had to travel over 60 miles to find a dealer - this is quite far to travel in the UK so bear with me
I actually tested the Cobalt 816S that had the upgraded tweeter from the Electra range and was absolutely blown away with the sound and purchased these.
My local hifi dealer (that stocked PMC, B&W speakers) actually started stocking Focal speakers after my glowing recommendation and I tried where possible to purchase only products with great objective measurements from then on, as there is clearly a correlation to sound quality.
I have heard some higher end PMC speakers that I thought were rather good (think they were called PMC IB1) but these are very expensive - I think these would measure much better objectively.
It would be great to see a review of some higher end PMC speakers and even some Focal speakers with their 'w' sandwich cones and beryllium tweeters, as (before I discovered this site), I always thought Focal was one of few companies that produced speakers based on objectivity.
Now I know that Revel, Neumann and Genelec appear to be the reference choice but I would be surprised if Focal's higher end speakers (beyond the Aria 906 which I have in my bedroom) and PMC speakers like the IB1 didn't perform well.
I had the PMC DB1 Golds for 2 years. Paid $1100 USD for them on sale (MSRP was $1500) and despite that, I *still* thought they were way too pricey for what they were. Sure, the build quality is nice (made in England) - but honestly every speaker I've owned above $300 have had nice build quality. And the soundstage and bass was decent for the size. I get that Active Transmission Line technology is pricey to implement. But since the PMCs were my main speaker and sat on my desktop everyday playing audio, something about them just never sounded right. The bass was a touch too boomy, it sounded muffled at times, and in general I just didn't think the overall sound quality was worth the price. I ended up selling them for Aperion Verus 5Bs (which I got for half the price of the DB1 Golds) and it just sounds way more articulate, cleaner and *accurate* across the board. I didn't look at ASR before, but nice to see that my thoughts about PMC are validated here. Not sure how so many professionals use them if they are not even close to being reference accurate.
Thing is when you do a quick youtube search for reviews all you see is them being highly praised. Zero Fidelity, Thomas & Stereo etc they all gush about it. I wonder how they can be so confident about the sound of these speakers and say they are such good value when at $1500 per pair they better be doing something magical to justify that price. Well at least I can say they are cheaper than Harbeths but I also find Harbeths - along with most other British audio brands (REL, Naim, Roksan, Cyrus, Rega, Arcam, Meridian, Linn, Musical Fidelity, etc) to be quite overpriced for what you are getting. The only UK brands I found were decent value wise are Cambridge Audio (since they are more affordable generally), Q Acoustics and Wharfedale (which has some decent value speakers) and some of Monitor Audio and Bowers & Wilkins stuff. KEF is ok only if they are on sale - no way am I paying those MSRP prices for them.
Thing is when you do a quick youtube search for reviews all you see is them being highly praised. Zero Fidelity, Thomas & Stereo etc they all gush about it. I wonder how they can be so confident about the sound of these speakers and say they are such good value when at $1500 per pair they better be doing something magical to justify that price. Well at least I can say they are cheaper than Harbeths but I also find Harbeths - along with most other British audio brands (REL, Naim, Roksan, Cyrus, Rega, Arcam, Meridian, Linn, Musical Fidelity, etc) to be quite overpriced for what you are getting. The only UK brands I found were decent value wise are Cambridge Audio (since they are more affordable generally), Q Acoustics and Wharfedale (which has some decent value speakers) and some of Monitor Audio and Bowers & Wilkins stuff. KEF is ok only if they are on sale - no way am I paying those MSRP prices for them.
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