Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Speaker Review

[digicidal]

Or just buy even slightly better speakers in the first place? I know... not the point.

 

[Robin L]

Or just buy even slightly better speakers in the first place? I know... not the point.

Tweakoholism is its own reward/punishment.

 

[digicidal]

Tweakoholism is its own reward/punishment.

Very true. If it weren't, there would be a much, much smaller demand for the vast majority of audio gear and accessories currently being marketed.

 

[mhardy6647]

Reading recent posts to this review/thread just gave me deja vu -- or maybe an acid flashback
Before the Andrew Jones designed Pioneers, the bargain darling loudspeaker, for a wee short while (ca. 2006), was an interesting little coax sold under the Insignia brand name (which I have always believed/assumed is no more, or less, than a Best Buy house brand label -- at least in the United States).

Insigna NSB2111 (apparently, if google is to be believed).

I've never heard nor seen a pair of these in the field myself, but they were -- briefly -- all the rage in the budget audiophile realm . Their cachet faded rather quickly, and reportage of revisionist history around them was swift and pervasive. At least that's the way I remember it.

http://soundadvicenews.com/2017/03/28/my-original-insignia-ns-b2111-review/
https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/228470.htm

There were several, perhaps many, web sites chockablock with modifications and upgrades for these little loudspeakers -- you know, to take them to the next level, to make jaws drop, to literally wipe the floor with [other loudspeakers], the usual stuff.

https://www.speakerdesign.net/midrange_tweaks/insignia/insignia_woofer.html
http://gr-research.com/insigniaupgrade.aspx

In seriousness... any of all y'all ever try these?

 

[Archnmez]

I have a pair of these I bought when they first came out. I agree on both counts, the cabinets alone look like they'd cost more than the retail price (especially on sale). In fact, that initially turned me off to them as when I saw them I was sure they couldn't have spent more than $1 total on everything else inside the box. To be fair to the BS22's however, the difference between the low frequency drivers is significant... as is the dual porting which let's them reach even a bit further.

The RTI A1's are also quite bright on axis, more than the BS22's by a bit... but much more civilized toed out decently. I would expect them to rate poorer than I subjectively think they sound on the Olive scale however, as they do seem pretty directional and not nearly as well behaved vertically as they are horizontally speaking.

SoundStage has measurements.

I thought they were fantastic as office speakers - until I upgraded to the LSiM703's when they went on sale for $500/pr... (also SS measured) However that's immaterial in this context, as they're not even in the same demographic, being a much larger, more expensive, 3-way design. They also have amazing cabinets for the cost BTW. Both are really only comparable to the Pioneers in that they were all available at big box stores as well as direct from the manufacturer (and likely in the massive quantities produced).

I had and returned the lsim703. They looked beautiful but I was a little disappointed that the port was plastic. I liked them but I returned because I purchased them new and they had been opened before.

 

[digicidal]

I had and returned the lsim703. They looked beautiful but I was a little disappointed that the port was plastic. I liked them but I returned because I purchased them new and they had been opened before.

I assume you mean the port cover (turbulence smoother, power-port thingy)... the port itself is routed into the cabinet body and is just wood. I never really even considered that an issue personally... I can't think of many speakers on which the port isn't plastic - but if you were thinking it was metal I can understand the disappointment. As far as paying full price for an open box item... yeah, that would bug me too - though I probably would just try to negotiate a bigger discount and keep them in that case.

 

[Prana Ferox]

I wouldn't use closed cell neoprene. If you want to acoustically dampen the enclosure, go down to Walmart or your local equivalent fabric store and get a $5 bag of Polyfill - or just a cheap pillow to steal the stuffing out of - and experiment with shoving a handful or three in the cabinet. As others have said, if you're spending more time or effort on this, you probably should just get a different speaker.

 

[maty]

I wouldn't use closed cell neoprene. If you want to acoustically dampen the enclosure, go down to Walmart or your local equivalent fabric store and get a $5 bag of Polyfill..

Polyfill is an absorbent, no a dampening material.

The ideal is the sum of the two, but it is obvious that the most urgent thing is to reduce the structural resonances <- damping.

A very easy way to verify the latter is to put weight on the speakers. For example, chubby tomes from old encyclopedia, which will add mass and cushioning. If you notice improvement when listening to good recordings then the resonances must be reduced.

If only bad recordings are heard, then it is not necessary to spend a lot of money on the stereo, speakers included.

 

[maty]

Insignia NS-B2111 test results and modifications.

by Zaph

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/81277-nother-reason-diy-post938711.html

Additional stuff that could be done
There could be some stiffening added to the top and the bottom. Better damping could be used also, and given the thin walls, preferably something with a mass loaded layer such as whispermat or sonic barrier. I could toss the driver, peel the plastic veneer off, add a 1/4" layer of MDF all the way around, veneer it and use the enclosure as a great base for something else. The entire crossover could be yanked and redone rather than the add-on notches I have shown. I'll leave these modification ideas to other people...

As in the previous one, it is best to spend little money. And they serve to lose the fear of improving better and more expensive loudspeakers.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Before the Andrew Jones designed Pioneers, the bargain darling loudspeaker, for a wee short while (ca. 2006), was an interesting little coax sold under the Insignia brand name (which I have always believed/assumed is no more, or less, than a Best Buy house brand label -- at least in the United States).

Insigna NSB2111 (apparently, if google is to be believed).

View attachment 49360

Ah yes, I remember the Insignias from my Head-Fi days. My recollection is that Best Buy very quickly figured out these were trending and started bumping up the price. IIRC at this point in time you were supposed to pair these with the $14.95 Radio Shack Accurian amplifier (which you almost certainly "modded" by removing the wireless daughter board and swapping a jumper) for a budget-fi "giant killer" rig.

 

[GabrielZM]

Glad to see these speakers tested. Long time lurker in the forum and would like to say thanks for these wonderful reviews and resources here. Decided was time to register and support audiosicencereview. Any Klipsch bookshelf model (r15 or r51) review incoming? I would like to see how they fare.

 

[maty]

...Insigna NSB2111 (apparently, if google is to be believed).

http://gr-research.com/insigniaupgrade.aspx $95

Original

Modded

[ The final result is a fairly smooth response, a well dampened enclosure, and a very good sounding pair of speakers. I know of nothing for under $150 a pair that will touch these.

Total kit cost for all parts, wire, solder, heat shrink, No Rez, and wiring diagram is $95.

So the total cost for an upgraded pair is $45.99 for the speakers, $5.49 for the rock hard water putty, $95 for the upgrade, some sales tax, some small materials cost. For this you get a weekend of fun, and you wind up with a very serious little speaker that can complete easily with a lot of very expensive speakers out there, and embarrass a bunch more too. ]

 

[cshake]

I've got a pair of these as the sides in my 5.1 TV setup in the relatively small living room (mounted to the walls just behind the couch), along with the rest of the Pioneer 22 series for the other locations, going on 5 years now. They are set at 100Hz crossover, same with the center, and the floorstanding fronts crossed over around there or a little lower. I figured that going with models in the same range would help with not having different sound signatures from different corners of the room, especially in this budget range.

At normal listening levels, they're miles ahead of crap "came with the $50 stereo" speakers that I'd been used to all through school and at friends' houses, and after the Onkyo room EQ in the AVR, I really can't say much bad about them, especially at the price. Consider me a satisfied customer, and they met my expectations. Music and surround audio from TV and movies are enjoyable, with nothing standing out as "that's not right" or "that sounds weird". I don't have experience with "really nice" speakers though, so I'm not at all surprised that residents of that rarified air up there have different opinions.

 

[MZKM]

Here are distortion measurements which are supposed to be done in anechoic chamber but were not (so ignore data below 200 Hz or so):

Advanced Speaker Measurements

@amirm, I'm adding distortion graphs to my spreadsheet, I'm stating the SPL of the THD measurement, you state 2.83V input but the fundamental SPL is at ~95dB, why is that, measurement distance? Unless stated otherwise, is this the case for all others as well?

 

[jae]

What is a good sub to match with these (preferably in similar price range)? I have had a brand new pair sitting in a box in my basement for ages

 

[ck42]

@amirm Any interest in re-testing the BS22 with the Murphy mods? I'm not currently using my modified BS22's and can send one for testing.

 

[infinitesymphony]

@amirm Any interest in re-testing the BS22 with the Murphy mods? I'm not currently using my modified BS22's and can send one for testing.

Is there any discussion in that thread about what the author believes was wrong with the stock tweeter and crossover in terms of performance, and how the new components rectify those issues? The initial post does not delve into "why."

The testing here at ASR shows that the primary weakness is the bass performance, and these mods do not appear to address that.

 

[ck42]

Is there any discussion in that thread about what the author believes was wrong with the stock tweeter and crossover in terms of performance, and how the new components rectify those issues? The initial post does not delve into "why."

The testing here at ASR shows that the primary weakness is the bass performance, and these mods do not appear to address that.

I don't recall the specifics of the tweeter change (which then required the modified xover) but I'm comfortable saying that it was simply considered an upgrade for what is considered to be a cost-containment stock tweeter. But you are correct regarding the the midbass - unless you consider the sonic barrier installation as an appreciable part of the modifications.

 

[StevenEleven]

What is a good sub to match with these (preferably in similar price range)? I have had a brand new pair sitting in a box in my basement for ages

The hard part is “preferably in similar price range.” IME getting subs for the BS-22s elevates their performance out of proportion to what one might normally expect. I bought the BS-22s soon after they came out, after audioholics measured them, and I was just like, damn, what’s with that (the measurements were freaky good, especially for back then):
https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/pioneer-sp-pk52fs/pioneer-sp-pk52fs-measurements (scroll down a little to see the BS22 FR in light green). As you can see (and hear if you have an open mind), they’re no joke. Thus I was not surprised, but I was delighted, when they measured well for @amirm here. I started with a $100 Pioneer sub and could hear the port noise (in fact that’s how I know what port noise sounds like), tried an SVS SB1000 sub ($400) instead and it was so worth it, later bought another one to smooth out room response and then I’ve got $800 in subs for a $120 pair of speakers! But cost-benefit wise I don’t regret it. Good subs are NICE. Just very recently popped a pair of ELAC DBR-62s (thrilled!) in the LR channels and am using the Pioneers as surrounds now. Still, even now I paid more for subs ($800) than mains ($600)!

The SVS SB1000s are nice because they can give you a pretty good response up to about 200 hz, so you can experiment crossing over above 80 hz, etc. That’s particularly useful for something like the Pioneers. Some of the bigger and more expensive lower-reaching subs won’t take you that high up into the mid-bass. I don’t need that with the ELACs but going up to 120 hz or 150 hz or so for the crossover with the Pioneers seemed quite worthwhile.

A good general rule I believe is you’re better allocating the same budget for two cheaper subs rather than one more expensive sub, if you do your homework. Reading Floyd Toole’s book one could argue is part of doing your homework. To a large degree what you get out of subs is proportional to your knowledge base and the effort you put into it. Although people do go way overboard, IMHO.

Hope this helps, I’m not the expert in any sense.

 

[AnalogSteph]

It all fits right in with the use of a cheap little mid-woofer that has some issues in the linearity department. If you look at the distortion measurements, things are dominant 3rd at 1-2 kHz (and not super low either), which suggests substantial nonlinearity on the electrical side of things (BL / inductance). Which is the kind that would cause considerable IMD, hence why they have a tendency of falling apart quite badly at higher levels.

At the end of the day, they're still cheap little speakers. Andrew Jones got them as good as they could be, but he's no magician. The parts budget for these is just very finite, and part of it was already expended on a proper crossover. Still, you can probably get lots of cheap little speakers without proper crossovers and still with cheap drivers, and maybe the odd one with half-decent drivers but still no proper crossover. It's a different set of tradeoffs, and certainly worth pursuing considering that it's quite uncommon.

Maybe, with a great deal of luck and a major following wind, there's another, better-performing midwoofer out there that'll drop right in. I wouldn't be holding my breath though.