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Philips Fidelio X2HR Review (headphone)

solderdude

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1. what, if not a secret?
see https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-philips/fidelio-x2hr/

is it possible to use a correcting analog filter on the shp9500 / 9600 in order to smoothen the high frequency, to reduce the dip of ~ 4kHz?

Lowering a peak is possible with a passive filter. Dips cannot be corrected passively. In case of the 9500 which does not have a peak but a raised 'plateau' this too is not possible with a passive filter.
Lowering upper treble with toilet paper or felt and the lower frequencies with a filter may be an option.
 

bugivugi

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Ha, true, although you gotta get creative when you're talking about soundstage! It's a subjective property that I don't think is fully revealed in the measurements....measured frequency response affects it but is not the whole story in my listening experience. Good soundstage seems to correlate with large ear cups, open back, angled drivers (or pads), and a frequency response that roughly matches the Harman Curve (for me) or exceeds the Harman curve in the treble.

I was gonna pounce and say you need to get some K371 though.....but then realised you want open back.....yes that is a tough one.....the phones in this review are a reasonable shout like you've experienced, but K371 might be better but I'm afraid on how much soundstage you might lose, tonality wise they'd probably be better as well as certainly having better (perfect) bass extension.

EDIT: and the recently reviewed NAD HP50 (closed back) (which I own) would be an excellent challenger to the K371, especially as I think the soundstage will be better on the HP50 than the K371 (HP50 for me better than HD600 on soundstage for instance), but you do need to EQ the HP50 to get those good results. It's extremely easy to drive.
unfortunately the NAD VISO HP50 is no longer available for sale.
 

bugivugi

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Robbo99999

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unfortunately the NAD VISO HP50 is no longer available for sale.
Indeed, was a good headphone, the only real problem with it is the earcups are a bit small, so a bit fiddly to get positioned correctly.
 

Ufasas

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Finaly got x2hr cheaply, i think they are destroying all of my headphones I have ever had, they are even demolishing my beloved K702 by a good margin, and all my fears were cleared at first listen of the song and first competitive fps match
 

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Jarlaxle

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I was selling mine. It was in its box for a month. Today I gave it another listen, compared to my Klipsch HP-3. (the reason I decided to sell X2HR) Found out they were different enough to keep. Happy Listening

By the way, it was also mentioned by @solderdude in diyaudioheaven that something is wrong with the right driver. Its distortion is worse than the left. By no means it distorts even in high listening levels but when I turn the knob to try the limits, distortion in only one cup kind of annoys me.
 

concorde1

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Just wondering, did you ever solve the grain on the X2? I have the same problem, tried EQ with my realtek but can't get rid of that pesky grain.
No, I sold them a while back. I didn't know how to fix it. Sounded like distortion to me.
In retrospect, I should have done a bit more testing with EQ to remove that 10 kHz peak that @solderdude mentioned. Oh well, I'm not going to rebuy them, I have enough headphones.
 

Ufasas

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X2 + V-Moda whacks the s*** out of gaming headsets so its still in my collection after ~5 years:) Once compared to Logitech G633 and wow how crap G633 was.
2018 logitech g pro (and g433) is the same trash compared to x2 + v
 
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EDIT: GODFORSAKEN MOBILE AUTOCORRECT, sorry for the eyesore post folks.




Of course its measurable. People simply are looking in the wrong place. Ive been saying for a while now (one of the aspects you got correct was cup size and shape, which directly relates to pinna activation, of which there is no coincidence something like the HD800 excells in along with its idiotic treble rape that also suits slowly defending aged folk). The other aspects are related to recording quality (good clean mics), recording type (binural or not etc..), recording setting (massive difference when you listen to a recording done in a church hall, as opposed to a treated foam walled studio room). The rest has basically to do with post processing effects like channel panning, and of course the obvious echo and reverb and other DSP effects that all play on frequency response as you alluded to somewhat with a preference curve which of course is almost exclusively observed from a FR aspect.

Aside from these things that can be broken down into a bit more nuance if you really wanted to... There is no "soundstage" as a singular metric based solely on hardware design. Such a notion is ridiculous for two reasons. The first, businesses couldn't wait if they could legally and scientifically have another quantifiable metric to include in spec sheets. The second and more important reason is I would be able to take a mega soundstagey headphone and play mono recordings all day and still it must produce a soundstage effect if soundstage was truly a mostly hardware phenomenon.

You would also have such metrics provided by driver designers (and acedemic guidelines of what is strictly required in design to produce hardware exclusive soundstage-ability levels within your hardware design).

I dont trust a single headphone company does basic product validation to the level of someone like Amir does (they prossibly cover legal things like safety and such at best). I have more belief companies that contract OEMs for parts like Apple does with their IEMs for example do far more testing of what they're sent than any audiophile company simply in virtue of the stakes they play with concerining the level of investments they make requires such discretion.

And when I don't see them trying to chase this soundstage ordeal in mostly hardware, i feel safe with my notion of what soundstage is. To me soundstage needs to get measured at the production/software level, or if there isnt access to such, then it needs to be done like Harman research (preference exploration to see if there is any pattern that can be exploited and worked on specifically in-hardware). But with manufacturers providing incremental changes for each test phase to see if we're heading in the right direction.


You recall when i said one of the flaws in assuming soundstage isnt primarily at the hardware level? In software or at the recording stage of production, i can crank the Echo knob, or I can decide to record in a church. And even if i played the recording in mono, i would still get more spatial effect than if i tried to chase soundstage by simply trying to change the hardware of the headphone.

The reason i made my remark was because I thought it was a bit funny to see amir talking precise percentages of soundstage-ability. I know the subjective portion is just someone trying to use words people can understand rather than seeking out audio engineers to explain to them what 6Khz-30kHz frequencies fo with respect to soundstage. So i actually dont like when people give him a hard time sometimes with the subjective portion. Its just entertaining to see how someone with his technical vocabulary behaves when he forces himself to use the terms in a style mostly used be self proffessed expert audiophiles who also think "measurements cant tell me if ill enjoy the music" (as if thats what all measurements do or something).
Sorry for the old bump here but this is an incredible well written and wonderful post. I think soundstage (which I define as the headphone/speaker/iems ability to reveal secondary distance cues given in recording, mixing, and mastering) is absolutely what you just described in your post. As far as the equipment (specifically over ewar headphones), cup size and distance from the ear is probably the second largest contributor in my experience. I own a Takstar GM200 and a Cooler Master mh751 which is functional the exact same driver/headphone but with SLIGHTLY smaller earcups. Just that small difference makes a noticable difference. I would love to figure out a way to measure it aside from just blind abx tests to see if I am imagining that however.

Long story short, the overwhelming majority of soundstage is coming from the production/mixing end of things. That being said I love the x2's for the sense of space, which I suspect is due to my ears have quite a bit of air between them and the drivers. I have a pin head though so your result may vary.
 
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I own these and I love them. They’re my favorite headphones I’ve ever owned. I returned the new Bose QuietComfort headphones (which I couldn’t stand) and bought these instead and I couldn’t be happier. I’m sure I don’t listen as loud as you but I do have pretty sensitive hearing. I haven’t noticed high frequency resonances but my brain does seem to equalize minor fluctuations out on its own. I could probably spot them if I listened for them but I still think these are fantastic esp for their price. Too bad they’ve been discontinued.
 

Robbo99999

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The X3 is no improvement over the X2HR by the way... for those contemplating the X3 hoping that X3 is yet another improvement.
X3 looks a little easier to EQ out the treble peaks, as long as that's somewhat translateable to a GRAS measurement, as in if we saw the same overall characteristics in GRAS:

X2HR:
raw-frequency-response-l-14-graph-small.jpg


X3:
raw-frequency-response-l-14-graph-small.jpg


EDIT: Managed to download a comparison of the two headphones measured by Oratory:
Harman 2018-Philips Fidelio X2HR-Philips Fidelio X3.png

I'd actually say the X2HR is easier to EQ to the Harman Curve as one is not really anymore peaky than the other, and the X2HR is a closer match to the Harman Curve at stock.
 
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Luke Lemke

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The X2's can be bought for around $80 used at eBay. I really can't think of a better price / performance ratio than this. If you EQ these cans to the Harman curve (oratory 1990) they sound VERY good to my ears.
 

solderdude

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The first X2HR I measured had an audible channel imbalance.
The first one I bought (so the second one I measured) also had channel imbalance but a different one and also audible.
The second one I bought (so the third one I measured) finally was O.K.
So there appears (or appeared) to be some production issues/tolerances/quality assurance issues in the factory they were made in.

I found the pads to be a bit 'prickly'. Bass is overblown and treble had a peak. Once corrected they sounded good and had good imaging.
 

frogmeat69

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The first X2HR I measured had an audible channel imbalance.
The first one I bought (so the second one I measured) also had channel imbalance but a different one and also audible.
The second one I bought (so the third one I measured) finally was O.K.
So there appears (or appeared) to be some production issues/tolerances/quality assurance issues in the factory they were made in.

I found the pads to be a bit 'prickly'. Bass is overblown and treble had a peak. Once corrected they sounded good and had good imaging.
I can't remember if you measured the earlier made X2, before the X2HR. If so, did they measure about the same?
Wondering if I should even bother asking @amirm if he would like to mess with them, since you can only get used ones now.
 

solderdude

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Never measured the X2/00.
 
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The first X2HR I measured had an audible channel imbalance.
The first one I bought (so the second one I measured) also had channel imbalance but a different one and also audible.
The second one I bought (so the third one I measured) finally was O.K.
So there appears (or appeared) to be some production issues/tolerances/quality assurance issues in the factory they were made in.

I found the pads to be a bit 'prickly'. Bass is overblown and treble had a peak. Once corrected they sounded good and had good imaging.
I agree that they must have production inconsistencies, or that perhaps the production was improved as time went on. I say this because I definitely haven’t heard any blown out bass or treble peaks like you describe. If anything, the bass seems more subdued than other headphones and could probably use a boost. I haven’t measured them though; this is all just based on my own subjective listening.
 
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