Philips Fidelio X2HR Review (headphone)

[solderdude]

A lot of people complained about the numbers they generated.
I too had a lengthy talk with Sam about this.
This was the solution he came up with. It makes sense for measurements but doubt it is accurate.
My proposal is to have a rather large LF swing and superimpose a many dB's smaller frequency and measure what happens to the smaller signals only.
That test signal doesn't exist (AFAIK) but would give more clarity as to what happens when a large LF swing modulates other frequencies in music.

Sam's goal was to use weigh the distortion measurement a bit better in the headphone ranking. That one is not solely based on FR (conformity to a standard) and tilt but also weighs in distortion and all other aspects.

 

[Dreyfus]

This phone makes nothing well...

I'd definitely say that this is a lose for this headphone rather than a win! Frequency response looks pretty good until you get to 2.5kHz and then you see a series of oscillating unfixable (not EQ'able) peaks & dips, combine that with the distortion in the bass then you've got a pretty poor tasting recipe, worth a pass on this one I think. It does seem to have soundstage on it's side though, although Amir noticed EQ'ing out the brightness reduced the soundstage.......cheapish soundstage headphones I would recommend AKG K702 as an alternative.

Have you listened to the X2HR yourselves or are you just rephrasing?

I don’t notice any obvious HF peaking with music

Me neither.

I guess that is a "limitation" of the 43AG with only one specific seating position.

Note Rtings do not use industry standard measuring equipment.

Not really. Their equipment follows both IEC and ITU-T recommendations:
HMS II.3-LN - Product Description

It may not be the last gen. However, I reckon that the "high-res" simulator and the anthropometric pinna with the first and second bend are not widespread enough to count as an active standard (from a consumer - which is the engineer in this case - perspective), yet. The non-damped 60318-4 is still tolerated and actually commonly used. Not so sure about the tapered ear canal, though.

 

[Robbo99999]

Have you listened to the X2HR yourselves or are you just rephrasing?

No, I'm not rephrasing, I looked at the measurements and gave my own take on it based on my experience EQ'ing and listening to different headphones based on measured frequency responses. I haven't listened to this particular headphone. I'm also basing it on Amir's listening experience to go along with that.

 

[Dreyfus]

I haven't listened to this particular headphone.

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Robbo99999]

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

lol, ok. Don't bother measuring it then!

 

[GGroch]

Amir's measurement and subjective impression of bass response are what surprise me here. Subjective criticism of the X2HR on the interwebs notes the high frequency boost but also a very significant mid bass bloat. That was certainly my own impression, and others posting here concur. Perhaps unhinged bloated bass is the result of distortion rather than frequency emphasis...but that does not explain why Amir did not hear it.

A few posters here compare the AKG 371. I have them both and they do not sound at all alike unequalized. The 361/371 sounds balanced and musical to my ears. The X2HR's apparent bass boost makes it for me nearly unlistenable.

That said, Tyll Hertzens' review and measurement of the essentially identical X2 did not indicate major bass issues.

 

[bluefuzz]

These are the first 'phones that Amir has measured that I also own. My measurements on the MiniDSP EARS seem to be very similar to Amirs though the resonances are at slightly different frequencies. Whether that is an artifact of the measurement rig or variation in the phones themselves is unclear, but the general shape is very similar which is pleasing. My subjective impression is also similar to Amirs - generally quite nice but the treble peak(s) is unbearable. Interestingly, channel matching on my pair is close to perfect - by far the best of any I have measured.

I EQ down the slight boominess in the midbass but I haven't noticed any bass distortion even with a considerable boost at 20 Hz, but I don't play super loud.

I wear fairly thick framed glasses and these are the only headphones that don't 'squeak' against the frames which is a plus. They are rather heavy though compared to my other phones.

 

[Dreyfus]

lol, ok. Don't bother measuring it then!

Well, I did.
It is just that I consider both measurement data and actually listening experience with the particular model before I allow myself to pass a judgment.

A headphone measurement does not serve an end in itself. It is always connected with individual hearing.

 

[Bob-23]

It does seem to have soundstage on it's side though, although Amir noticed EQ'ing out the brightness reduced the soundstage...

With Oratory's EQ applied, soundstage still remains superior to the one one of the HD600s; and the treble is fully cured, and, at least to my ears, much more pleasant than the treble of the eq'd K702s (which can be slightly piercing with an sopran sax, e.g.). And I like that they have 'more
body' than the K702. I don't get these bass distortions, but that may have to do with that I usually don't listen at very loud volumes.

Nontheless, the review - and thanks to Amir! - made me very interested in trying out what Solderdude mentioned: curing the weak points without eq, by passive mods. Robin L. proposed a passive mod, too, with regard to the treble ( which I haven't already tried out.) And thus getting/maintaining an even better soundstage. After all, they have 50mm angled drivers (K702 40mm, HD600 40/38 mm, HD800s 56 mm/angled. - For Jazz listening, I clearly prefer them over the K702 and the Hd600. For Classical Hd600 and K702 are more adequate.

but the lack of even basic replacement parts like earpads keeps me from buying them.

That's indeed bad. As the overall build is very good, the ear pads are the point. (These ones will last some years.) The genuine pads seem to have been available for a while, and because of that, I could imagine that there will be replacement pads for the X3 which seem to be the same(?).

Customer service of Philips is kafkaesk. A few months ago, I phoned them up, and the respective Lady in the respective audio-department seemed to be indignant when I asked her if there are earpads for the X2HR available. I should use their chat. What I did. Nobody answered my question there. Finally, I succeded in getting another Lady in another (non-audio) department, and she really (!) opened the X2HRs file, looking if there are replacement pads...

 

[Jimbob54]

This phone makes nothing well it's maybe usable for Home "BumBum" Cinema & Gaming, that's it. Designwise it's really nice.

I've got to ask, what is "bumbum"?

 

[Nango]

Action TV

 

[Nango]

Have you listened to the X2HR yourselves or are you just rephrasing?


Me neither.

I guess that is a "limitation" of the 43AG with only one specific seating position.


Not really. Their equipment follows both IEC and ITU-T recommendations:
HMS II.3-LN - Product Description

It may not be the last gen. However, I reckon that the "high-res" simulator and the anthropometric pinna with the first and second bend are not widespread enough to count as an active standard (from a consumer - which is the engineer in this case - perspective), yet. The non-damped 60318-4 is still tolerated and actually commonly used. Not so sure about the tapered ear canal, though.

Owned them 5 times (because of the hype in many forums) incl. X1 many yrs ago and returned 5x within the grace period (because of the SQ, poor bass).

 

[Dreyfus]

Five times? Chapeau!
That must be the definition of insanity Einstein was talking about.

 

[YSC]

To me as well. My plot represents what I hear and you can see the bass lift there. It is possible to flatten the bass levels and lower the treble withut having to resort to EQ. This improves them a lot. I have better headphones so rarely use them.

So what’s your to go headphone?

 

[Robbo99999]

Well, I did.
It is just that I consider both measurement data and actually listening experience with the particular model before I allow myself to pass a judgment.

A headphone measurement does not serve an end in itself. It is always connected with individual hearing.

In that case only people who measure headphones and own them can comment - no. As I said, for all the 4 different headphones I own I have experience EQ'ing them myself using REW based on measurements from people like Oratory, and then correlating that to my listening experiences with those headphones......so yes I'm making informed judgements from the measurements based on that, which is quite reasonable I think. For instance on the bass, I know that the high distortion measurements would correlate to ill-defined bass when boosted to Harman levels, based on my experiences with comparing the same measured issue with HD600 vs HP50 & HE4XX (I own these). Also my experience of doing some bad EQ's on my HD600 using some high Q filters on the treble resulted in worse performance than lower Q filters in the same area.....ie peaks in the treble area can make for some literally uncomfortable listening. And on this last point the HP50 sounding the smoothest of all the headphones I own (although not my favourite) as can be seen in the treble it is super smooth on the measurement.....which is a reasonable extrapolation to say the the X2HR with it's oscillating sharp peaks in the treble would be bothersome. So over this time I have been able to correlate measured frequency response (combined with EQ experiments/experience) with my listening perceptions.....so my comments are not "off the cuff" unfounded. You don't have to own a headphone in order to comment on how you think it would sound based on the measurements, and especially not if you have personal experience correlating measurements with listening experiences......I'll continue to provide my comments.

 

[solderdude]

So what’s your to go headphone?

To go headphone is modified DT1350 with some EQ. Sometimes KSC75. Not often using headphones on the go though.
My go to headphones are HD800 (EQ), HD560S (filtered), modified DT880BE, sometimes modified/filtered DT1770 for closed but I have others as well. My preference may not be someone else's though so is kind of irrelevant in this aspect as to what I use/prefer.
The modified X2HR is no slouch either though. The 'prickly' velour pads is the reason I don't use them much.

 

[Dreyfus]

In that case only people who measure headphones and own them can comment

That is not the point. I just asked for a correlation between the look at measurement results and actual listening.

There is always room for assumptions based on experience. Still, it remains kind of theory as long as it is not fully proven in practice, which is the actual listening on your head. No one can give a guarantee that a headphone that measures good does also sound good in practice. Same for the opposite.

Since we cannot try and own every can on earth we have to find some balance between those worlds.
My credo is to use measurements for orientation. not judgement.

 

[Robbo99999]

That is not the point. I just asked for a correlation between the look at measurement results and actual listening.

There is always room for assumptions based on experience. Still, it remains theory as long as it is not fully proved in practice, which is the actual listening on your head. No one can give a guarantee that a headphone that measures good does also sound good in practice. Same for the opposite.

Since we cannot try and own every can on earth we have to find some balance between those worlds.
My credo is to use measurements for orientation.

That is not the point. I'm gonna comment based on the measurements, because that is what Amir is providing.....I also have experience correlating measurements with listening experience to add further weight to it (like I've said). It's absolutely definitely positive that I can know I wouldn't like a headphone from it's measurements, as I know what they can sound like with different frequency responses. The only real problem with the X2HR is the sharp oscillating peaks in the treble, that would probably bother me more than the bass distortion because I don't listen at loud volumes most of the time. I'll say it's a good headphone for the money and for the portability with not needing a headphone amp, and it hugs the Harman Curve quite well so not as necessary to EQ as some other headphones plus reportedly good soundstage, so I'll say there are some good use cases for it....just I wouldn't want to buy it because I think it's unfixable via EQ.

EDIT: actually I'm gonna say it's not that great value for the money as it's £25 more expensive than my favourite headphone the K702, which I think would outclass it based on the measurements I've seen along with my experience of the K702 (after EQ).

 

[Jimbob54]

Seems like a Marmite headphone. I see equal amounts praise as a good value option and trashing its FR (I think the potential brightness is the usual criticism). I have no need of a pair of 'phones of this type so will likely never try to see if I like with and without EQ.

I suspect its a good gateway headphone but possibly not an end game for many.

 

[Dreyfus]

I'm gonna comment based on the measurements, because that is what Amir is providing.....I also have experience correlating measurements with listening experience to add further weight to it (like I've said).

All fine as long as it works for you with high practical correlation.

I have had enough mixed bags which give me the reason to look at measurements more critically in general. This applies primarily to the extremes, bass seal and treble resonance. The broad response is mostly safe to judge. Not so much for particular bumps and high Q resonances in the response which may vary with unit-to-unit variation, seating and the ear-related properties. That's why we have to consider as much measurements and practical reviews as possible. Obviously, one should not judge based on just a single source.

EDIT: actually I'm gonna say it's not that great value for the money as it's £25 more expensive than my favourite headphone the K702, which I think would outclass it based on the measurements I've seen along with my experience of the K702 (after EQ).

See, that is where I could claim the exact opposite based on my personal experience. Since the X2HR seals much better to my head than the AKG K7 series I get a much fuller and more realistic presentation of the music. This context can not be sufficiently extrapolated from any measurement I can find on the net. Best I can find is Solderdude's flat plate measurement which thankfully does not completely ignore this (often underestimated) aspect. But after all, predicting the sound is very tricky without having the can on my own head. I don't care about bass THD or the 5 kHz peak (which I personally do not find as an audible issue) if already the seal is broken.