Philips Fidelio X2HR Review (headphone)

[YSC]

Bass drop off is pretty much the same as what Oratory measured as seen in the following pic (the raw response is on the left & his EQ'd measurement on the right), so I would say that the bass measurement is accurate considering the correlation:
View attachment 105037

Interestingly, his measurement shows a lot less severe peaks & dips in the treble than Amir's measurement.....but this could well be due to the effect of smoothing as he shows an average curve from multiple measurements, which is indeed an argument for saying that Amir's showing of a single optimised measurement is more revealing in the detailed characteristics of the headphone (although it may be less useful for EQ purposes).

Apology for my bad, I just get the impression the general bass roll off measured here is kind of earlier and faster than elsewhere so kind of having the question.
Beside this it looks like a champ of following the harman target, though tried them at shops few years ago and the bass sounds too much and bleeding into the mid for me personally

 

[Tks]

Shaving off those resonances also collapses the soundstage by some 20 to 30%.

Thought i was reading a HiFi Forum review for a second.

 

[solderdude]

Beside this it looks like a champ of following the harman target, though tried them at shops few years ago and the bass sounds too much and bleeding into the mid for me personally

To me as well. My plot represents what I hear and you can see the bass lift there. It is possible to flatten the bass levels and lower the treble withut having to resort to EQ. This improves them a lot. I have better headphones so rarely use them.

 

[solderdude]

Now I'm curious about X1.

X1, X2HR

Same circumstances.

 

[Nango]

This phone makes nothing well it's maybe usable for Home "BumBum" Cinema & Gaming, that's it. Designwise it's really nice.

 

[pavuol]

I'm just not sure if that is actually from Philips or just made by an Amazon seller.

Yep, not found at product page outside of Amazon. Yet seller seems "innocent", found this packaging photo of some earbuds of Philips:

Spoiler

 

[MZKM]

I own a pair of these, as the measurements show they are the only open-back I own that natively has good bass extension, which as an iPhone user is pretty important (no global EQ).

I don’t notice any obvious HF peaking with music, I just did a tone generator and ~ 5100Hz-5400Hz is indeed peaking, above that in frequency though the peaks/dips (and channel imbalances) I hear are different from the measurements here. But like I said, I don’t notice it with music.

I also don’t notice bass distortion, so either I’m not sensitive to it or Amir listens louder than I do (which has been a reoccurring theme); with the Apple dongle DAC (~30mW into 33ohm; ~109dB @ 1kHz if my math is correct), it gets more than loud enough for me (I’m usually 2 clicks from max), if that says anything. I just did a tone generater in the 250Hz-300Hz region and at higher levels I do hear that “Brr” that Amir talks about.

So yeah, FR & distortion measurements match my unit pretty closely, it’s just that I’m not sensitive to it with music, which I’ve known that I don’t have “golden ears” for a while, which I guess can be spun into a blessing .

This headphone has had QC issues though, with channel imbalances or during the Black Friday sale some of the units even had the angled drivers put in incorrectly! Luckily it is user fixable. Using a sweep, mine does have imbalances, just not (audibly) to the degree as Amir’s unit, it mainly is the 400Hz-800Hz region where it pulls right, and around 5600Hz-5800Hz where it pulls left, and no large suck out around 9kHz in either channel.

The note about the pads is real, they collect hair and dust like nobody’s business. Clamping force is also a tad much.
___________
I’m waiting to see what high-end open-back headphone I could upgrade to that simply is better in all areas. You’d think one exists, but I’ve yet to find one that follows the Harman curve very well, most have flat response in the bass. My preference is a bit lower in the bass than Harman’s, so they don’t need to be boosted as much, but a flat response is for sure not for me.

EDIT: Or it may be what @GGroch said and the level in the bass isn’t what makes it too much, but the distortion. Not sure.

 

[3125b]

found this packaging photo of some earbuds of Philips:

Great find.
Now I need to get me some Philips earphones, wouldn't wanna miss that sweet 30kHz treble ...
This is so stupid

 

[Jimmy]

Not really, they aren't bad at all, just not everyone's cup of tea, if you can find a unit with good channel matching at the prices they are selling they are a good buy.

I may try Solderdude's mod sometime, just covering the hole, treble in my pair is not problematic. I also thought about removing the felt that covers the grills from the inside, but that may not be a good idea at all.

However a problem that I find with these is comfort (I have a medium to large sized head), for me clamping pressure is a bit on the high side, I've tried bending the headband without much success.

This phone makes nothing well it's maybe usable for Home "BumBum" Cinema & Gaming, that's it. Designwise it's really nice.

 

[Robbo99999]

Thought i was reading a HiFi Forum review for a second.

Ha, true, although you gotta get creative when you're talking about soundstage! It's a subjective property that I don't think is fully revealed in the measurements....measured frequency response affects it but is not the whole story in my listening experience. Good soundstage seems to correlate with large ear cups, open back, angled drivers (or pads), and a frequency response that roughly matches the Harman Curve (for me) or exceeds the Harman curve in the treble.

I own a pair of these, as the measurements show they are the only open-back I own that natively has good bass extension, which as an iPhone user is pretty important (no global EQ).

I don’t notice any obvious HF peaking with music, I just did a tone generator and ~ 5100Hz-5400Hz is indeed peaking, above that in frequency though the peaks/dips (and channel imbalances) I hear are different from the measurements here. But like I said, I don’t notice it with music.

I also don’t notice bass distortion, so either I don’t notice it or Amir listens louder than I do (which has been a reoccurring theme); these get loud enough for me with the Apple dongle DAC (~30mW into 33ohm), if that says anything. I did just do a tone generated in the 250Hz-300Hz region and at higher levels I do hear that “Brr” that Amir talks about.

So yeah, measurements match my unit pretty closely, it’s just that I’m not sensitive to it with music, which I’ve known that I don’t have “golden ears” for a while, which I guess can be spun into a blessing .

This headphone has had QC issues though, with channel imbalances or during the Black Friday sale some of the units even had the angles drivers put in incorrectly! Luckily it is user fixable.

The note about the pads is real, they collect hair and dust like nobody’s business.
___________
I’m waiting to see what high-end open-back headphone I could upgrade to that simply is better in all areas. You’d think one exists, but I’ve yet to find one that follows the Harman curve very well, most have the flat response in the bass.

I was gonna pounce and say you need to get some K371 though.....but then realised you want open back.....yes that is a tough one.....the phones in this review are a reasonable shout like you've experienced, but K371 might be better but I'm afraid on how much soundstage you might lose, tonality wise they'd probably be better as well as certainly having better (perfect) bass extension.

EDIT: and the recently reviewed NAD HP50 (closed back) (which I own) would be an excellent challenger to the K371, especially as I think the soundstage will be better on the HP50 than the K371 (HP50 for me better than HD600 on soundstage for instance), but you do need to EQ the HP50 to get those good results. It's extremely easy to drive.

 

[MrOtto]

Why are these 4th best ranked on measured performance on rtings.com? https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/philips/fidelio-x2hr

 

[MZKM]

Ha, true, although you gotta get creative when you're talking about soundstage! It's a subjective property that I don't think is fully revealed in the measurements....measured frequency response affects it but is not the whole story in my listening experience. Good soundstage seems to correlate with large ear cups, open back, angled drivers (or pads), and a frequency response that roughly matches the Harman Curve (for me) or exceeds the Harman curve in the treble.

I was gonna pounce and say you need to get some K371 though.....but then realised you want open back.....yes that is a tough one.....the phones in this review are a reasonable shout like you've experienced, but K371 might be better but I'm afraid on how much soundstage you might lose, tonality wise they'd probably be better as well as certainly having better (perfect) bass extension.

Yeah, I’ve been mulling about ordering the K371’s, but some reviews state that while tonal balance is good, other aspects are not.

 

[MZKM]

Why are these 4th best ranked on measured performance on rtings.com? https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/philips/fidelio-x2hr
View attachment 105075

Because besides the ~5000Hz peak, it follows the Harman curve very well for an open-back.

Their distortion plot is also much lower. They have the ~270Hz region at 100dB being at 0.03%, whereas at 94dB Amir gets 0.5% and 1.5% at 104dB. Quiet a difference.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yeah, I’ve been mulling about ordering the K371’s, but some reviews state that while tonal balance is good, other aspects are not.

I edited my post whilst you were typing yours, recommending the NAD HP50 over the K371 due to the likely better soundstage, but you do need to EQ the HP50, it's easy to drive too. (and you need small ears, or at least not large ears).

 

[bobbooo]

Their distortion plot is also much lower. They have the ~270Hz region at 100dB being at 0.03%, whereas at 94dB Amir gets 0.5% and 1.5% at 104dB. Quiet a difference.

Their distortion figures are weighted, so are not directly comparable to standard THD measurements:

This test differs from Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) by applying a perceptual filter to each individual harmonic before calculating the total. Higher harmonics and frequencies are given more weight.

 

[solderdude]

Their distortion plot is also much lower

That's because the Rtings plots are already weighted. You could consider the Rtings distortion plots as sort of 'perceived' distortion.
There is something to be said for this as low frequency distortion isn't nearly as audible and can be many percent without being audible.
Of course at larger excursions other signals superimposed on the bass also get 'modulated' which you can't see on a THD sweep.

edit: Ha, posting this while Bobbooo did as well.

 

[bobbooo]

Why are these 4th best ranked on measured performance on rtings.com? https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/philips/fidelio-x2hr
View attachment 105075

Note Rtings do not use industry standard measuring equipment. In terms of the Harman target, below is a better ranking table based on measurements that do, ranked according to Harman's predicted preference rating (effectively adherence to their target):

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md

 

[Tks]

EDIT: GODFORSAKEN MOBILE AUTOCORRECT, sorry for the eyesore post folks.

Ha, true, although you gotta get creative when you're talking about soundstage! It's a subjective property that I don't think is fully revealed in the measurements....measured frequency response affects it but is not the whole story in my listening experience. Good soundstage seems to correlate with large ear cups, open back, angled drivers, and a frequency response that roughly matches the Harman Curve (for me) or exceeds the Harman curve in the treble.

Of course its measurable. People simply are looking in the wrong place. Ive been saying for a while now (one of the aspects you got correct was cup size and shape, which directly relates to pinna activation, of which there is no coincidence something like the HD800 excells in along with its idiotic treble rape that also suits slowly defending aged folk). The other aspects are related to recording quality (good clean mics), recording type (binural or not etc..), recording setting (massive difference when you listen to a recording done in a church hall, as opposed to a treated foam walled studio room). The rest has basically to do with post processing effects like channel panning, and of course the obvious echo and reverb and other DSP effects that all play on frequency response as you alluded to somewhat with a preference curve which of course is almost exclusively observed from a FR aspect.

Aside from these things that can be broken down into a bit more nuance if you really wanted to... There is no "soundstage" as a singular metric based solely on hardware design. Such a notion is ridiculous for two reasons. The first, businesses couldn't wait if they could legally and scientifically have another quantifiable metric to include in spec sheets. The second and more important reason is I would be able to take a mega soundstagey headphone and play mono recordings all day and still it must produce a soundstage effect if soundstage was truly a mostly hardware phenomenon.

You would also have such metrics provided by driver designers (and acedemic guidelines of what is strictly required in design to produce hardware exclusive soundstage-ability levels within your hardware design).

I dont trust a single headphone company does basic product validation to the level of someone like Amir does (they prossibly cover legal things like safety and such at best). I have more belief companies that contract OEMs for parts like Apple does with their IEMs for example do far more testing of what they're sent than any audiophile company simply in virtue of the stakes they play with concerining the level of investments they make requires such discretion.

And when I don't see them trying to chase this soundstage ordeal in mostly hardware, i feel safe with my notion of what soundstage is. To me soundstage needs to get measured at the production/software level, or if there isnt access to such, then it needs to be done like Harman research (preference exploration to see if there is any pattern that can be exploited and worked on specifically in-hardware). But with manufacturers providing incremental changes for each test phase to see if we're heading in the right direction.


You recall when i said one of the flaws in assuming soundstage isnt primarily at the hardware level? In software or at the recording stage of production, i can crank the Echo knob, or I can decide to record in a church. And even if i played the recording in mono, i would still get more spatial effect than if i tried to chase soundstage by simply trying to change the hardware of the headphone.

The reason i made my remark was because I thought it was a bit funny to see amir talking precise percentages of soundstage-ability. I know the subjective portion is just someone trying to use words people can understand rather than seeking out audio engineers to explain to them what 6Khz-30kHz frequencies fo with respect to soundstage. So i actually dont like when people give him a hard time sometimes with the subjective portion. Its just entertaining to see how someone with his technical vocabulary behaves when he forces himself to use the terms in a style mostly used be self proffessed expert audiophiles who also think "measurements cant tell me if ill enjoy the music" (as if thats what all measurements do or something).

 

[Robbo99999]

Of course its measurable. People simply arelooking in the wrong place. Ive been saying for a while now (one of the adpects you got correct was cup size and shape, which directly relates to pinna activation, of which there is no coincidence something like the HD800 excells in alongnwith its idiotic treble rape that also suits slowly defending aged folk). The other aspects are related to recording quality (good clean mics), recording type (binural or not etc..), recording setting (massive difference when you listen to a recording done in a church hall, as opposed to a treated foam walled studio room). The rest has basically to do with post processing effects like channel panning, and of course the obvious echo and reverb and other DSP effects that all play on frequency response as you alluded to somewhat with a preference curve.

Aside from these things that can be broken down into a but more nuance. There is no "soundstage" as a singular metric based solely on hardware design. Such a notion is ridiculous gor two reasons. The first, businesses coukdnt wait if they could legally and scientifically have another quantifiable metric to include in spec sheets. The second and more important reason is I would be able to take a mega soundstagey headphone and pkay mono recordings all day and still it must produce a soundstage effect if soundstage was truly a mostly hardware phenomenon.

You would also have such metrics provided by driver designers (and acedemic guidelines of what is strictly required in design to produce hardware exclusive soundstage-ability levels within your hardeare design).

I dont trust a single headphone company does basic product validation to the level of someone like Amir does (they prossibly cover legal things like safety and such at best). I have more belief companies that contract OEMs for parts like Apple does with their IEMs for example do far more testing of what they're sent than any audiophile company simply in virtue of the stakes they play with concerining the level of investments they make requires such discretion.

And when I don't see them trying to chase this soundstage ordeal in mostly hardware, i feel safe with my notion of what soundstage is. To me soundstage needs to get measured at the production/software level, or if there isnt access to such, then it needs to be done like Harman research (preference expliroration to see if there is any pattern that can be exploited and worked on specifically in-hardware). But with manufacturers providing incremental changes for each test phase to see if we're heading in the right direction.


You recall when i said one of the flaws in assuming soundstage isnt primarily at the hardware level? In software or at the recording stage of production, i can crank the Echo knob, or I can decide to record in a church. And even if i played the recording in mono, i would still get more spatial effect than if i tried to chase soundstage by simply trying to change the hardware of the headphone.

The reason i made my remark was because I thought it was a bit funny to see amir talking precise percentages of soundstage-ability. I know the subjective portion is just someone trying to use words people can understand rather than seeking out audio engineers to explain to them what 6Khz-30kHz frequencies fo with respect to soundstage. So i actually dont like when people give him a hard time sometimes with the subjective portion. Its just entertaining to see how someone with his technical vocabulary behaves when he forces himself to use the terms in a style mostly used be self proffessed expert audiophiles who also think "measurements cant tell me if ill enjoy the music" (as if thats what all measurements do or something).

Oh yeah, definitely, in my experience the recording (incl any sound effects used within that track) has one of the biggest impacts on overall soundstage perception, but it is true that the hardware (headphones) are influential in maximising that and the headphones describe the "size of the box" that the soundstage implemented by the recording sits within. So there's no argument there. Yeah, you gotta get creative when describing soundstage.

 

[Tks]

That's because the Rtings plots are already weighted. You could consider the Rtings distortion plots as sort of 'perceived' distortion.
There is something to be said for this as low frequency distortion isn't nearly as audible and can be many percent without being audible.
Of course at larger excursions other signals superimposed on the bass also get 'modulated' which you can't see on a THD sweep.

edit: Ha, posting this while Bobbooo did as well.

Note Rtings do not use industry standard measuring equipment. In terms of the Harman target, below is a better ranking table based on measurements that do, ranked according to Harman's predicted preference rating (effectively adherence to their target):

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md

Don't know why RT'ings did this. One day I woke up seeing bass distortion virtually gone from all headphones that used to have lots of it. I felt like a moron when I linked someone to a headphone distortion graph, only for the guy to tell me, I made his point for him. Thought I lost my mind that day... Until I read they changed the way they're presenting data for a few things.