Perlisten speakers

[MattHooper]

My objection isn't based on any reasoning or logical correctness of an ear-height tweeter. I just don't like the presentation of a soundstage that sits perceptibly below ear height. I could theorize about how this preference came to be, but I'm not sure it matters.

Same here.

For me when it happens it just feels so odd. Basically a good soundstage can create something of the impression of performers in front of you.
When the soundstage is lowered significantly it can be like they are now on their knees, or even have sunk below the physical floor. It's disconcerting and tends to ruin the illusion, IMO.

 

[HammerSandwich]

It ain't right if Taj Mahal sounds 3' tall.

 

[MattHooper]

Well I was beginning to get interested in these speakers, the s5m stand mounted monitors in particular.

Until I found the Canadian price! Hooweee! Starting at $17,000, up to over $18,000 in the finish I'd prefer. For a stand mounted speaker!

Even though I've spent some nutty money before, it's even too rich for my blood at this time. This is why I typically buy second hand.

Looks like there's a massive apetite for the brand in any case. I understand most models are sold out. I'll watch these speakers from afar.

 

[squeedle]

Well I was beginning to get interested in these speakers, the s5m stand mounted monitors in particular.

Until I found the Canadian price! Hooweee! Starting at $17,000, up to over $18,000 in the finish I'd prefer. For a stand mounted speaker!

Even though I've spent some nutty money before, it's even too rich for my blood at this time. This is why I typically buy second hand.

Looks like there's a massive apetite for the brand in any case. I understand most models are sold out. I'll watch these speakers from afar.

The R series is drastically cheaper, that's the one I'm really anxious to hear. R5T in particular. But so far haven't been able to find a way to audition them.

 

[MattHooper]

The R series is drastically cheaper, that's the one I'm really anxious to hear. R5T in particular. But so far haven't been able to find a way to audition them.

I can see that.

Personally I'd need the option of something like an Ebony finish before I'd let Perlisten speakers reside in my listening/music room. Takes some of the brutalism out of the look.

 

[verdun]

Help me here guys: Kal Rubinson wrote in his Stereophile S7t review, "The dome midrange drivers have much less moving mass than a traditional midrange cone, which should result in better transient response, lower distortion, and higher efficiency."

Further he stated "The Revels offered a wider soundstage and also more midrange detail, but in extended listening I didn't miss them."

Less midrange detail than the Salon 2s - why, they promise more?

It should not be speed - is there not enough cone area in the 2 midrange domes?

 

[abdo123]

Help me here guys: Kal Rubinson wrote in his Stereophile S7t review, "The dome midrange drivers have much less moving mass than a traditional midrange cone, which should result in better transient response, lower distortion, and higher efficiency."

Further he stated "The Revels offered a wider soundstage and also more midrange detail, but in extended listening I didn't miss them."

Less midrange detail than the Salon 2s - why, they promise more?

It should not be speed - is there not enough cone area in the 2 midrange domes?

What Kal said is absolute bullshit and he should be ashamed.

 

[verdun]

OMGosh; Kal is considered reliable is he not. When did you compare the Salon 2s and the S7ts? Perhaps you could expand a little on the differences. Thanks.

 

[Dj7675]

What Kal said is absolute bullshit and he should be ashamed.

Is it too much to ask to disagree in a less insulting, derogatory manner? I think we can do better than this here.

 

[Everett T]

OMGosh; Kal is considered reliable is he not. When did you compare the Salon 2s and the S7ts? Perhaps you could expand a little on the differences. Thanks.

It's one person's subjective opinion on sound, it's not right or wrong as we all hear different. The measurements tell you the speaker is good, listening is the next step.

 

[abdo123]

it's not right or wrong as we all hear different.

what he said about drivers with lower mass having a better transient response is just wrong, it does not resemble in anyway how a driver works.

 

[Everett T]

what he said about drivers with lower mass having a better transient response is just wrong, it does not resemble in anyway how a driver works.

I wasn't commenting on that aspect of what was said just in what was heard and in theory, combined with other factors, force, it can be seen. I'm not going down that rabbit hole as I haven't seen a complete set of driver measurements...

 

[richard12511]

OMGosh; Kal is considered reliable is he not. When did you compare the Salon 2s and the S7ts? Perhaps you could expand a little on the differences. Thanks.

Just a small correction. Kal is comparing the Perlisten to his own Studio2, not the Salon2. Not that the difference is huge(though I've never heard the Studio2), but they do have different mid-range configurations, with the Salon being 4 way.

Speaking personally, Kal is probably the only stereophile reviewer I read and put actual stock in what he says(I read other stereophile reviews, but put no stock in the opinions). I'm betting, based on reviews and measurements, that those Perlisten towers would do well in blind tests(as would the Studio2).

 

[verdun]

Mea culpa you are correct, Studio 2s. I seem to recall a senior Harman exec explaining the Studio 2 being several yrs younger has a little superior tech re the Salon2.

 

[richard12511]

I can see that.

Personally I'd need the option of something like an Ebony finish before I'd let Perlisten speakers reside in my listening/music room. Takes some of the brutalism out of the look.

They actually do have an Ebony finish, both natural and high gloss Ebony.

Personally, I actually really like the aesthetic of these speakers. The fact that they perform excellently is a huge bonus.

One thing I still don't entirely understand is the dynamic capabilities. In response to people comparing the measurements of the S7t to the Revel F328Be, I remember @Matthew J Poes mentioning that one thing that doesn't show in the measurements is that the Perlisten will get 10?dB louder. How is this possible? They seem very similarly sized, and have almost equal sensitivity. Given that the Revel F328Be3 can take a ton of power(Amir put most of 1000W into it), where does that dynamic advantage come from? Obviously they have incredible dynamics, as they are the only recipients of the top Dolby rating, so I'm not doubting the capabilities, but rather just wondering where they come from.

 

[ctrl]

I remember @Matthew J Poes mentioning that one thing that doesn't show in the measurements is that the Perlisten will get 10?dB louder. How is this possible?

Ultimately, it boils down to thermal load capacity and efficiency or to certain limits of THD, often 3% or 10% THD is taken as "load limit". I don't know what Matthew's statements refer to. I suspect the former.


The sensitivity of the two speakers, as you stated, is almost identical. According to the independent measurements, the Revel even has a small advantage (+0.7dB).
Thus, the thermal load capacity of the drivers is the deciding factor.
The manufacturers specify 300W (Revel) and 600W (Perlisten) as the maximum recommended amplifier power.
Thus, according to the manufacturer, the S7t speaker can deliver about 5.3-6dB more peak (long term) sound pressure level than the Revel F328Be.

Revel F328Be Perlisten S7t

For 10dB higher power handling, the S7t would have to have about a factor of >3.2 10*** higher thermal power handling.
That is a hell of a lot.

The tweeter of the Perslisten speaker with a 28mm voice coil is most likely more resilient than the 25mm tweeter of the Revel. But whether it is enough for the factor >3.2 10*** I would rather doubt.

Unfortunately, we lack the data on the power handling of the individual drivers or at least their voice coil diameter (for a rough estimate of the power handling differences).
Therefore, only the manufacturer's information on the recommended amplifier power remains.

***Update: @Boerd pointed out an error to me. For 10dB more sound pressure level you need factor 3.2 higher voltage. However, I am referring to the required power and this must increase by a factor of 10 to produce 10dB more sound pressure level (both speakers have about the same sensitivity).

 

[squeedle]

Ultimately, it boils down to thermal load capacity and efficiency or to certain limits of THD...

Could a higher xmax be a factor?

 

[Colonel7]

At 97-98 dB the Perlisten wasn't breaking a sweat running full range at Capital Audiofest (I asked and they turned subs off even though there was no high pass). And I don't like listening at over 80 dB.

 

[abdo123]

They actually do have an Ebony finish, both natural and high gloss Ebony.

Personally, I actually really like the aesthetic of these speakers. The fact that they perform excellently is a huge bonus.

One thing I still don't entirely understand is the dynamic capabilities. In response to people comparing the measurements of the S7t to the Revel F328Be, I remember @Matthew J Poes mentioning that one thing that doesn't show in the measurements is that the Perlisten will get 10?dB louder. How is this possible? They seem very similarly sized, and have almost equal sensitivity. Given that the Revel F328Be3 can take a ton of power(Amir put most of 1000W into it), where does that dynamic advantage come from? Obviously they have incredible dynamics, as they are the only recipients of the top Dolby rating, so I'm not doubting the capabilities, but rather just wondering where they come from.

It comes from the fact that the tweeter on the Perlisten tower is capable of much higher SPL (allegedly). Mathew mentioned that the tweeter is heavily attenuated with the crossover of the perlisten towers, suggesting that it’s capable of very high output. I don’t know how that translates in relative terms to Revel flagship modes.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Mea culpa you are correct, Studio 2s. I seem to recall a senior Harman exec explaining the Studio 2 being several yrs younger has a little superior tech re the Salon2.

They are contemporaries.