Perlisten speakers

[Spocko]

FYI Perlisten S7t is in December 21 edition of Stereophile. @Kal Rubinson reviewed it and liked it very much. Horizontal dispersion measurements is quite nice.

Didn't take long for Perlisten to post Kal's review!

I'd say the wisdom of the crowds have spoken - the beam forming array is genius and I look forward to seeing if the more affordable Perlisten R-series share these class leading directivity characteristics (for passive speakers).

 

[Matias]

Impressive.

And of course the datasheet.

 

[Spocko]

Impressive.

View attachment 164777

And of course the datasheet.

View attachment 164778

That narrow dispersion vertical directivity blows my mind - seriously, this was clearly designed to avoid ceiling bounce in a home theater environment.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

That narrow dispersion vertical directivity blows my mind - seriously, this was clearly designed to avoid ceiling bounce in a home theater environment.

or even with a stereo system.

 

[Spocko]

or even with a stereo system.

So I need clarification or just additional insights here (for the stereo listener). In home theater you have discrete overhead speakers that would not take kindly to bed level speaker cancellations/interference from the ceiling bounce, but for 2 channel stereo listening, do ceiling bounces offer a vertical soundstage in the same way that first reflections provide a wider horizontal soundstage (which is what Dr. Toole prefers)?

 

[Jdunk54nl]

This is interesting discussion on the narrow vertical stuff and praise of how narrow and well controlled it is.
It is one of the biggest criticisms of the @Dennis Murphy and his Philharmonic BMR stuff and other RAAL tweeter speakers. Yet here it is praised.
I know the BMR stuff isn't quite as controlled as this, but both seem fairly narrow vertical.

Can someone explain this? I am truly interested in what I am missing and wanting to learn.


Here is the S4b (Erins Audio Corner)

Here is the BMR (Erin's Audio Corner)

Here is the s7t (Audioholics)

 

[Kal Rubinson]

So I need clarification or just additional insights here (for the stereo listener). In home theater you have discrete overhead speakers that would not take kindly to bed level speaker cancellations/interference from the ceiling bounce, but for 2 channel stereo listening, do ceiling bounces offer a vertical soundstage in the same way that first reflections provide a wider horizontal soundstage (which is what Dr. Toole prefers)?

I suspect they affect our perception of a vertical soundstage but I have only my own anecdotal experience to think so.

 

[richard12511]

or even with a stereo system.

Looking forward to reading. You preferred this over your Studio2s?

 

[JRS]

I suspect they affect our perception of a vertical soundstage but I have only my own anecdotal experience to think so.

I vaguely recall a paper by Olive saying that vertical reflections had more of an impact on timbre than perceived spaciousness, and that floor bounce was used to calculate distance from source. (Which sort of makes sense given we were born on the savannah).

 

[pozz]

This is interesting discussion on the narrow vertical stuff and praise of how narrow and well controlled it is.
It is one of the biggest criticisms of the @Dennis Murphy and his Philharmonic BMR stuff and other RAAL tweeter speakers. Yet here it is praised.
I know the BMR stuff isn't quite as controlled as this, but both seem fairly narrow vertical.

Can someone explain this? I am truly interested in what I am missing and wanting to learn.


Here is the S4b (Erins Audio Corner)

Here is the BMR (Erin's Audio Corner)

Here is the s7t (Audioholics)

(The Audioholics plot you posted is for horizontal response.) I think the main thing to note is that the vertical directivity is very controlled in Perlisten speakers. Nearly the whole of the range consistently down vs. dips, lobing and beaming with more conventional speakers.

 

[Matias]

Looking forward to reading. You preferred this over your Studio2s?

The review is here:

https://www.perlistenaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/STRP_4412_PERLISTEN.pdf

Spoiler:
"Overall, the Perlisten S7t is the best speaker I’ve heard in this room."

 

[Matias]

(The Audioholics plot you posted is for horizontal response.) I think the main thing to note is that the vertical directivity is very controlled in Perlisten speakers. Nearly the whole of the range consistently down vs. dips, lobing and beaming with more conventional speakers.

Vertical dispersion also has been controlled in previous Dynaudio speakers by having calculated cancelations between both tweeters, and currently with their waveguide too.

 

[bo_knows]

Vertical dispersion also has been controlled in previous Dynaudio speakers by having calculated cancelations between both tweeters, and currently with their waveguide too.

Dynaudio DDC. If I'm not wrong, was introduced with Evidence and Temptation speakers.

 

[Inner Space]

I vaguely recall a paper by Olive saying ... that floor bounce was used to calculate distance from source. (Which sort of makes sense given we were born on the savannah).

I have read that too. Imagining an evolutionary inheritance there is lazy thinking, surely. The savannah wasn't hard, flat or reflective. We've lived with flat reflective floors for what, a couple hundred years? Far too recent to have an evolutionary influence.

 

[pozz]

Vertical dispersion also has been controlled in previous Dynaudio speakers by having calculated cancelations between both tweeters, and currently with their waveguide too.

Do we have measurements of that model? Would be nice to compare.

 

[Matias]

Do we have measurements of that model? Would be nice to compare.

There is this one here:

Dynaudio Confidence 30 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Dynaudio Confidence 30's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the nearfield responses. I measured the speaker's impedance with Dayton Audio's DATS v2 system.

www.stereophile.com

Dynaudio Confidence 30

 

[bo_knows]

Do we have measurements of that model? Would be nice to compare.

Not much.

Homepage

STEREO – Alle News und Tests zu HiFi und Audio: Lautsprecher, Verstärker, Kopfhörer, Plattenspieler und mehr ausführlich getestet.

stereo-magazine.com

 

[pozz]

There is this one here:

Dynaudio Confidence 30 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Dynaudio Confidence 30's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the nearfield responses. I measured the speaker's impedance with Dayton Audio's DATS v2 system.

www.stereophile.com

Dynaudio Confidence 30

Hard to tell from the +/-15 degrees. Definite but shallow dip starting around 3kHz.

Better than what we see in other speakers.

 

[pozz]

So I need clarification or just additional insights here (for the stereo listener). In home theater you have discrete overhead speakers that would not take kindly to bed level speaker cancellations/interference from the ceiling bounce, but for 2 channel stereo listening, do ceiling bounces offer a vertical soundstage in the same way that first reflections provide a wider horizontal soundstage (which is what Dr. Toole prefers)?

Vertical reflections have some effect on imaging (not "soundstage"), in terms of broadening it. The main effect is on timbre, particularly if there is some difference in the spectral content of the reflection.

These effects are less pronounced because there is no vertical stereophony in terms of time and intensity. It's mostly based on spectrum, from cancellations caused by the position of the head, shoulders and torso (and knees, etc., if you're sitting). And then localization accuracy is mostly achieved by head movement.

It's a somewhat nebulous area, though, in terms of what's good and what's bad. That's probably because the recent research is not specifically about loudspeaker design.

Here's a recent thesis with two preference based experiments on the topic: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/74211806.pdf @youngho

Another good researcher here is Hyunkook Lee, but his work is behind a paywall.

Edit: With two channel audio, given the precedence effect, everything will be a modification of the direct sound. I've never experienced constant narrow vertical directivity; rather the kind of mess that's to be expected with conventional designs. Maybe the closest would be horns, but the examples I've heard do not have well controlled directivity. All in all I hate hearing variation with head movement.

Perhaps the case here, with Perlisten speakers, is that that variation is not objectionable. It could be compared to deliberate floor and ceiling absorption with nothing on the walls, which I've never done. Getting more direct sound is very perceptable, though, and could be the main reason, along with nice on and off axis response, that these sound so good.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Looking forward to reading. You preferred this over your Studio2s?

You can follow the links at Perlisten to read it. The answer to your question is complicated.