Performance vs reliability/serviceability

[dorakeg]

When for $150, you can get a DAC with Spdif, Toslink and USB inputs, and balanced and RCA outputs with Sinad >115db, do I even care if it only lasts a year or two?

Agreed. These are more like used and throw away gadgets.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Agreed. These are more like used and throw away gadgets.

Dacs are now the "burn phones" of audio.

 

[Audiofire]

I once bought a Rappaport Pre-1 preamp in the 1970's and for some reason after a year or so it had a channel that kept cutting out. When I tried to get in touch with the manufacturer, I discovered he had gone out of business. The kicker was he put an epoxy housing around all the parts on the board so they were inaccessible to any electronic tech for tracing and replacing the through the hole components. Ended up recycling something that cost $500 in 1977.

The housing has to be connected to input/output terminals somehow. Depending on what was in there, the housing caused excessive heat. That thing was already broken due to non-existent reliability, so the first thing to do would have been opening the housing.

 

[birdog1960]

First, I wonder what is considered long lasting. Would a 6 year life from a $400 yamaha receiver be ok? I've actually got more than that out of one. Second, I think manufacturers could do much more with software updates. I just updated a 5 year old telescope to near state of the art electronic finder with a free download.

 

[sergeauckland]

First, I wonder what is considered long lasting. Would a 6 year life from a $400 yamaha receiver be ok? I've actually got more than that out of one. Second, I think manufacturers could do much more with software updates. I just updated a 5 year old telescope to near state of the art electronic finder with a free download.

No, in my view, 6 years is nothing, regardless of price. I expect (and normally get) at least 20 years from any piece of electronics that isn't crippled by software, which is why I have an intense dislike of any network connected product, as that will almost certainly become obsolete far sooner.

I have a 45 year old Yamaha receiver that's still working, two 40 year old turntables, one 50 year old turntable, a 50 year old tape recorder, 40+ year old loudspeakers, two 60 year old amplifiers. Those items I consider have given a decent life. 6 years is just burnt in...

S.

 

[birdog1960]

No, in my view, 6 years is nothing, regardless of price. I expect (and normally get) at least 20 years from any piece of electronics that isn't crippled by software, which is why I have an intense dislike of any network connected product, as that will almost certainly become obsolete far sooner.

I have a 45 year old Yamaha receiver that's still working, two 40 year old turntables, one 50 year old turntable, a 50 year old tape recorder, 40+ year old loudspeakers, two 60 year old amplifiers. Those items I consider have given a decent life. 6 years is just burnt in...

S.

my yamaha still works too but that's the thing about less expensive equipment: it's not so painful to upgrade to something utd. my yamaha doesn't have wifi which now seems essential.

 

[Waxx]

First, I wonder what is considered long lasting. Would a 6 year life from a $400 yamaha receiver be ok? I've actually got more than that out of one. Second, I think manufacturers could do much more with software updates. I just updated a 5 year old telescope to near state of the art electronic finder with a free download.

6 years is nothing, my Marantz PM5004 is 12 years old and my full original Technic SL1500 (MKI) turntable is 47 years old and both are still full on spec. That is long lasting. The Technics got an overhaul in 2018, but it was just lubricating and tuning, no part needed to be replaced. Off course the cell and needle are newer as they wear out after a while.

I also got a Luxman C-02 preamp in good condition in stock that is from 1982, and just needed to be recapped and Goodman Mezzo SL speakers that are from 1975 and just had a recap also.

I don't see modern gear doing that, surely not the digital devices or the active speakers that are so popular here...

 

[MAB]

No, in my view, 6 years is nothing, regardless of price. I expect (and normally get) at least 20 years from any piece of electronics that isn't crippled by software, which is why I have an intense dislike of any network connected product, as that will almost certainly become obsolete far sooner.

I have a 45 year old Yamaha receiver that's still working, two 40 year old turntables, one 50 year old turntable, a 50 year old tape recorder, 40+ year old loudspeakers, two 60 year old amplifiers. Those items I consider have given a decent life. 6 years is just burnt in...

S.

Echo your experience. My late ‘70s Yamaha gear all works to this day. Lights have given out, replaced those with LED. One or two pots got scratchy, cleaned them. Same with my Luxman and Pioneer gear from that era. And the pile of Bryston amps that just won’t break.

 

[MAB]

my yamaha still works too but that's the thing about less expensive equipment: it's not so painful to upgrade to something utd. my yamaha doesn't have wifi which now seems essential.

I added wifi/dac to the aux inputs of all my old gear. The family all seem to be able to operate it without my help. The old input selector seems to be universally understood! Not so for the home theater AVR, my daughter and I are the only two who can figure it out. I am happy to not upgrade since 40+ years ago manufacturers seemed to understand adding sources to your hifi was important. Heck, I have an Aiwa micro system that is now a streaming system for the kitchen!

 

[preload]

I also like brands which do not mislead customers and/or sell snake oil. Examples: selling or promoting very expensive cables, spraying CDs in demos (! hello Burmester), making products with MQA (dCS, Topping and many more), selling very expensive "platforms" (hi TAD), More examples of misleading: cryogenic treatment (hi Audiovector), or selling a freaking lightbox for $1500 (Mcintosh),

I generally agree with your list, but have to ask, what is misleading or snake oil about the McIntosh lightbox? I would never buy one, but McIntosh is very clear that all it does is light up for eye candy and provide a location to tuck away your extra cables. A lot of people like the way McIntosh products look and are willing to pay extra for these aesthetics and resale value.

McIntosh is a company with a rich engineering history and was founded on a measurement-first philosophy.
Several years ago, I had a fairly technical question about the maximum capacitative load an amplifier could tolerate without experiencing oscillation. There were only two companies that provided usable responses, both of which put me in touch with one of their engineers. The first was McIntosh, who connected me with their VP of Engineering. The second was Benchmark, who put me in touch with their VP/Director of Engineering. Denon's response was "that's not one of the specs we have."

It is so refreshing that Benchmark encourages people not to buy expensive cables, and says that "upgrade" power cables are not needed.

I own quite a Benchmark products, and I think they're a great company. However, I have to point out that Benchmark DOES sell expensive speaker cables ($180 for a 10ft pair), which appear to be constructed from off-the-shelf parts (Neutrik, Canare, locking bananas).

 

[MaxwellsEq]

First, I wonder what is considered long lasting. Would a 6 year life from a $400 yamaha receiver be ok? .

I don't change my kit unless it fails or there's a new capability I need. So the turntable and arm are about 30 years old and the cartridge is perhaps older. The preamp became just too unreliable and unmaintainable after 40 years. The power amp is becoming a bit flaky, but it's 30 years old. The speakers are 28 years old.

 

[valerianf]

In the last 20 years I got two Yamaha AVR and none of them has ever failed.
But nowadays I am looking for Wifi, Dirac and HDMI 2.1.
The new Yamaha AVR have an increased pricing, an ugly front facia and no Dirac.
For now I am keeping the old tech.

 

[tuga]

Reliability/serviceability is important for someone like myself who mainly buys used gear but performance comes first (and looks last).

An advantage of buying used it that longevity will most likely have been put to test.

A disadvantage of being old gear is that some parts can get discontinued and will be near impossible to find (e.g. laser mechanisms).

 

[JeffS7444]

I think while people may think of inexpensive products as "consumable", many can actually be repaired perfectly well. And if build quality and design seem good, why not? Granted, it helps to have DIY skills!

Products which reply on apps or external cloud services to provide key functionality are trickier though! When the cloud service is discontinued, there's not a lot you can do.