Okto dac8 stereo DAC Review

[Matias]

And only the 9038PRO has the annoying so called THD+Noise bump which is not easy to get rid of.

I thought this mystery was solved after this:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ow-to-fix-ess-hump-on-sgd1-and-la-qxd1.10502/

 

[Eurasian]

DAC8 PRO recent production unit (July 2020)

View attachment 73412

Here is another image of the DAC8 PRO (so not Stereo!). I think this is the more recent (production) unit. It was shipped the first week of July 2020 to me. A lot of differences in lay out, case and connections. See also the absence of any ventilation holes. There is a slab of CNC'd aluminium behind the DAC-print (not visible), bolted to the case, to remove the heat by conduction (which is not that much of course). Great engineering "detail" which I like. It comes at considerable extra production costs too I guess.

John

Hi John,

What was your order number? Mine is 142, placed about 7 weeks ago.

Thanks,
David

 

[John1959]

Hi John,

What was your order number? Mine is 142, placed about 7 weeks ago.

Thanks,
David

That was #116 and it took some 14 weeks to ship. But it doesn't tell the whole story because we don't know their production capacity at the moment. I was told by Pavel shipping of my unit was delayed because they had temporary problems with one part of the case. Their standard 6-8 weeks lead time is a little bit optimistic if you ask me, at least in the past. Best ask Pavel about a more accurate estimate of the shipping date I think.

 

[John1959]

I thought this mystery was solved after this:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ow-to-fix-ess-hump-on-sgd1-and-la-qxd1.10502/

Interesting post, didn't know that it was that simple after founding the solution.. I did know that Topping had solved the problem too for one of their models, I don't know which one anymore.

 

[BDWoody]

we just found our chief smelling officer

I dunno... @mansr is usually quite good at spotting them early...when he's around.

 

[Eurasian]

Thanks for your reply, John. I have a Gigaport HD to use while I wait.

How are you using your Okto Pro?

 

[John1959]

Thanks for your reply, John. I have a Gigaport HD to use while I wait.

How are you using your Okto Pro?

At the moment just in stereo mode with a Hypex nCore based 8-channel amp driving my 100+ dB/Watt full range single driver horn loaded speakers (no crossovers). Because of that high efficiency the DAC8 pro doesn't come above -40 dB when listening .
With a sub woofer added so it's actually a 2 way active system. I am in the proces of building a new 3-way active system (one of late Mr. Linkwitz designs, so totally different concept). Therefore I need all those extra channels of the DAC8 PRO .

 

[Labjr]

Absolutely. But at least to half the price first.

The thing about the pricing for this stereo DAC is that it is totally out of whack with competition of which there are plenty in the 2-ch market, granted with not as good subjectively in industrial engineering and aesthetics for a traditional audio stack. It is like a well-crafted watch that you pay a premium for although cheaper ones will keep time just as well. So, it is a little bit of bragging rights involved as well. Would there be equal excitement if it was 5th or 6th down that SINAD list with no impact on audibility?

On the other hand the 8 channel Octa8 Pro has almost no competition and priced not much more above this.

My thought right now, and that may change, is that those specs are only attainable with the flagship DAC chips from ESS and AKM. And those cost $$.

My comment was, perhaps, a bit sarcastic. But then again, I never thought we'd see the great values currently available! Never say never! Soncoz seems to have squeezed extra performance out of the value DACs, previously thought to be unattainable.

 

[Neddy]

Nice to see such great measurements - in spite of the sniping, trolling and other OT comments - and relatively large order numbers.
(It's only been a year & 1/2 since the Pro DAC prototype was tested - and less than a year since they started shipping, and with great attention to quality & detail on Pavel's part [Cough! Except for the rack ears... cough cough, Ahem].
And still waiting on news about the latest software update....?
Still, A very impressive achievement for a small operation like his.
And gives a hint at where our production DACPros land in terms of final performance - been waiting for these tests a long time!
Bottom line is that mine continues to run smooth as silk, and have had zero problems with it (also runs cooler than everything else in my rack.)
Congrats!

 

[John1959]

Nice to see such great measurements - in spite of the sniping, trolling and other OT comments - and relatively large order numbers.

Serial number of my unit is 54 (order #116). Running at 26 oC with 24 oC room temperature while sitting on my 1 kW total class D amp in use...

 

[EchoChamber]

Absolutely. But at least to half the price first.

The thing about the pricing for this stereo DAC is that it is totally out of whack with competition of which there are plenty in the 2-ch market, granted with not as good subjectively in industrial engineering and aesthetics for a traditional audio stack. It is like a well-crafted watch that you pay a premium for although cheaper ones will keep time just as well. So, it is a little bit of bragging rights involved as well. Would there be equal excitement if it was 5th or 6th down that SINAD list with no impact on audibility?

On the other hand the 8 channel Octa8 Pro has almost no competition and priced not much more above this.

I find some features quite unique. Such as having the option of a RB Pi integrated - yes, you could have an external pi discretely next it. Double balanced output per channel could be really helpful to integrate a 2.2 system (subs would need balanced input). The overall convenience, ease of use, the best SINAD ever on ASR, and an elegant product design is worth paying IMO (and I did). All that takes time, brain power (R&D) and a lot of passion to get a stellar product out.

I guess a good competitor would be the Element X that also looks amazing and performs well with similar features, but at about twice the price. That gorgeous aluminum chassis comes at price...

 

[Vasr]

My thought right now, and that may change, is that those specs are only attainable with the flagship DAC chips from ESS and AKM. And those cost $$.

My comment was, perhaps, a bit sarcastic. But then again, I never thought we'd see the great values currently available! Never say never! Soncoz seems to have squeezed extra performance out of the value DACs, previously thought to be unattainable.

There are plenty of 2-ch ChiFi Dacs with the flagship chips at the $400-$600 level. Not to say they are comparable but gives you an idea that the price isn't coming from the cost of the chip (going from a $4 chip to $40 chip is marginal increase in retail cost). It is all the design/engineering/manufacturing costs that need to be amortized in a low-volume, fragmented market with a lot of non-tangible benefits (aesthetics, form factor, feature differentiation, etc) with no audible improvements over something half the cost.

Many people believe $1200 for a Longine watch is a great value. I can see why people would buy them and appreciate the craftsmanship and engineering but I wouldn't consider buying one as good value (even considering resale value).

Just so there is no misunderstanding: I am not making any judgments on people buying these or on the value of a well-engineered piece.

DACs in the audio world are the equivalent of wrist-watches in the personal accessory world. Some can be happy with a phone doing the job, some with a mass-market-brand and some price a well-engineered marvel and pay accordingly.

People pay huge sums of money for a car that can do 0-60 in 4 sec or less even if they never need that performance. It is not just a performance per dollar evaluation although it can be post-rationalized as such!

 

[gvl]

I want this, but I already have the 8-ch version. That's the conundrum.

 

[John1959]

I want this, but I already have the 8-ch version. That's the conundrum.

If you don't need it anymore try to sell the 8-ch version. Good chance you can get even a little bit more for it than you paid yourself, if in mint condition! Just like limited edition sports cars .

John

 

[gvl]

If you don't need it anymore try to sell the 8-ch version. Good chance you can get even a little bit more for it than you paid yourself, if in mint condition! Just like limited edition sports cars .

John

I wish it was that simple, I need the 8-ch for a planned active crossover project.

 

[Labjr]

I wish it was that simple, I need the 8-ch for a planned active crossover project.

I've been thinking about Linkwitz LX521.4 for at least five years now, because I want a system better suited for Rock/Pop than the SET gear I currently have. However, I feel like I'm no closer to getting/ building it. I like to keep old gear around too. I don't need to sell one to get the other but I don't have room for 2-3 systems.

Personally, I don't see why you would need Okto stereo DAC when you have the 8 CH model already. You can use the 8 CH for stereo but not the other way around.

 

[gvl]

Personally, I don't see why you would need Okto stereo DAC when you have the 8 CH model already. You can use the 8 CH for stereo but not the other way around.

I surely don't need it, but I still want it

 

[EchoChamber]

There are plenty of 2-ch ChiFi Dacs with the flagship chips at the $400-$600 level. Not to say they are comparable but gives you an idea that the price isn't coming from the cost of the chip (going from a $4 chip to $40 chip is marginal increase in retail cost). It is all the design/engineering/manufacturing costs that need to be amortized in a low-volume, fragmented market with a lot of non-tangible benefits (aesthetics, form factor, feature differentiation, etc) with no audible improvements over something half the cost.

Many people believe $1200 for a Longine watch is a great value. I can see why people would buy them and appreciate the craftsmanship and engineering but I wouldn't consider buying one as good value (even considering resale value).

Just so there is no misunderstanding: I am not making any judgments on people buying these or on the value of a well-engineered piece.

DACs in the audio world are the equivalent of wrist-watches in the personal accessory world. Some can be happy with a phone doing the job, some with a mass-market-brand and some price a well-engineered marvel and pay accordingly.

People pay huge sums of money for a car that can do 0-60 in 4 sec or less even if they never need that performance. It is not just a performance per dollar evaluation although it can be post-rationalized as such!

I agree, it is an indulgence. I would never recommend anyone to struggle with their finances to get such a sophisticated piece of gear. I could live happy with my Modius, D90 MQA, or just my Hidizs S8 dongle (if I only listened to headphones).

If you ask why I'm indulging, well... some of it is just wanting a new toy, yes I'll admit, I'm sensible to fast, immature, shopping urges. I also do have a weakness for (real) high performance audio and ASR is not really helping me control my urges ;-). I try to do it in a smart way though, it has to be on Amir's blue list and if it doesn't sound as expected it is returned (objective data has to match my subjective perception). I also don't have a super car (I drive a Honda - I'd love a Tesla...) and don't wear a watch, meaning I have more cash available for audio. And, well.. I've been obsessing about audio for decades, if you tell me the best DAC in the world (backed by actual data and not imagined superlatives) costs ~$1.5K, it is attainable. I really just want to perceive as much of a musical recording as possible, and the dac8 seems like it could get me a (small) step closer.

I also I don't believe luxury watches are a good value. But I think an Apple Watch would be more of the equivalent of what the dac8 represents in audio. One of the best options in its segment in 2020.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Did you miss the post where it was already shown, Amir's analyser cannot measure further than the performance seen here?
Yes, it's almost like I'm saying 122 SINAD and 122 SINAD are the same. Could it possible be??! The maths seem to check out

My point is that a manufacturer just doesn’t *stop* because it has reached the current state-of-the-art. Otherwise, we’d all be listening at 13/32 resolution mono PCM that NHK pioneered in 1968.

 

[MRC01]

Excellent piece of gear. Expensive but not crazy expensive.
It has a headphone output, with a volume control, how does it measure SNR/SINAD at 50 mV? If it's a conventional design, I'd expect 4 V to 50 mV is 38 dB reduction, so its SINAD 122 dB - 38 dB = 84 dB. Curious what it actually measures.