NHT Super Zero 2.1 Review (bookshelf speaker)

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Agreed that there are valid gripes, but the bass isn't one of them. It's misunderstanding target demo and using bass as a fault.

However, as has been mentioned by several people already, the roll off happens at a pretty high bass frequency making it problematic even with a sub...

 

[Shike]

I guess if you have a super-specific size constraint and would rather not save some money and buy a better speaker that's an inch or two bigger then so be it...

I've literally had an installer flat out tell me back during the SZ XU series that it was the largest he could recommend as a spouse would be dead set at something the size of Bose cubes. This is for the aesthetics crowd wanting something better than HTiB/soundbar.

I seem to recall this often being recommended for surround duty and not just as mains with sub. From the measurements, it does not look like a good choice even for that usage.
Amir has reviewed many smaller speakers. Many of these have a similar frequency response. Not sure if you have or haven’t read the Revel M55XC review or not.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/revel-m55xc-outdoor-speaker-review.14881/
He seems to be able to judge just fine if a speaker is good or not, even if it has bass deficiencies. Even within the range of what it does this particular speaker just isn’t very good and should be updated to make it a competitive offering.
The review (both objectively and subjectively) show it to not be competitive offering. A speaker can be good or bad within its designed frequency range. This particular one, even considering its limited frequency range just isn’t very good..

I have read it, and in-fact multiple people on other sites were wondering why it didn't get the headless panther. IIRC I defended the review noting the market segment would generally be bass limited.

He makes multiple excuses for the Revel's lack of bass and tries to find ways of fixing it in placement. He also mentioned not letting it produce to much bass (high-passed?). It sounds like he did everything he could to give the Revel a benefit and understood it wouldn't produce bass not noting it as a fault in the least. He treated this like a "full-range" bookshelf and treated the Revel like a bass limited sat.

To me it seems he really didn't understand this is effectively a bass limited sat. Had he reviewed it in a manner similar of the Revel treating it like a sat I'd have zero complaints. At this point it's hard to hold the subjective review as applicable to this speaker.

Finally while preference scores aren't everything the NHT does have a higher one.


I'm not angry that he didn't like the speaker. There are better performing and cheaper speakers, but I don't believe that doesn't mean there are no grounds for critique of testing methodology and expectations. No effort is being made to ultimately understand the critique.

However, as has been mentioned by several people already, the roll off happens at a pretty high bass frequency making it problematic even with a sub...

That's true of any sat/sub system, that's a segment limitation that can't really be overcome without work.

 

[sarumbear]

Agreed that there are valid gripes, but the bass isn't one of them. It's misunderstanding target demo and using bass as a fault.

What part of that almost 100% distortion in the bass range is not the problem???

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

These are at least twice the size of Bose Cubes though aren't they? I mean whatever, if someone's specific needs are such that these are literally the only option they have and they don't care about the apparent issues then go for it I guess. But there are definitely speakers similar in size that do a lot better for less money...

 

[Shike]

What part of that almost 100% distortion in the bass range is not the problem???

Maybe I have the wrong person, but I'm pretty sure multiple individuals have explained this to you - this is to be used with a subwoofer. That means a high-pass filter would be utilized and the bass wouldn't matter. Are you going to fault the Revel M55XC review? He mentions he specifically limits bass content and still recommends it.

These are at least twice the size of Bose Cubes though aren't they?

Yes, which is why these are the limit for many.

I mean whatever, if someone's specific needs are such that these are literally the only option they have and they don't care about the apparent issues then go for it I guess. But there are definitely speakers similar in size that do a lot better for less money...

If similar is another couple inches to fit a 5" then yes, of course.

Understand, I'm not denying there are better cheaper speakers. Never have and never would.

 

[Billy Budapest]

sure, maybe so...but there are lots of speakers that accomplish that for less money. Many of them wouldn't absolutely require a sub either.

But as far as Amir's subjective reviews go, one of the fundamental premises of this place is that subjective assessments need to be taken with an enormous grain of salt. Personally, I barely even read the subjective part of these reviews. No offense to Amir, but they just don't mean a whole lot to me.

Agreed, and that is what I was attempting to communicate to Amir, no offense intended.

 

[Plan9]

Using an original pair of Super Zeroes along with the matching passive SW1 dual 6" sealed sub (all vintage 1991) and while I'm not sure as to the crossover point, there doesn't seem to be integration issues that I can hear...then again my ancient ears...

 

[whazzup]

but I'm pretty sure multiple individuals have explained this to you - this is to be used with a subwoofer.

And those same multiple individuals, like you, also seem to be missing the plot on at least 2 areas:

1. This is a speaker product, drivers in a box, meant to produce sound. And there're at least a few here who used the super zero without sub. It can produce most of the audible frequencies. NHT is not some benevolent corporation. They do not actively stop people who didn't know better from buying it. Like an earlier example, it may be a 3-legged mutt, but it IS a 'bookshelf speaker' and competing in the same race as other 4-legged mutts for the same dollars. If you know how best to use the strengths of this 3 legged mutt, good for you.

But if people can use it without a sub, Amir reviewing it as a bookshelf speaker without a sub is perfectly fine.


2. Like you and many others so fondly point out, NHT is very 'helpful' in encouraging people to use it with a sub as a form of disclaimer. Pair it with their sub preferably. So if writing down helpful hints is all that's needed, then note Amir's words on the M55XC:

Note: our company, Madrona Digital, is a dealer for Harman and hence Revel speakers. I don't know for a fact but we install a lot of outdoor Harman speakers in commercial and residential installations. So feel free to read as much bias as you like into this review.

Grow up.

 

[sarumbear]

Maybe I have the wrong person, but I'm pretty sure multiple individuals have explained this to you - this is to be used with a subwoofer. That means a high-pass filter would be utilized and the bass wouldn't matter.

Manufacturer says "the SuperZero 2.1 complements the SS 10 subwoofer perfectly in creating an affordable yet high-end stereo or surround sound system."

Please show me how they will be used on a "high-end stereo" setup AND get rid of the distortion in the bass range?

 

[SIY]

Please show me how they will be used on a "high-end stereo" setup AND get rid of the distortion in the bass range?

High pass filter.

 

[sarumbear]

High pass filter.

I meant what device, not technology.

NHT says use they complement their sub. If you use them alone you will get the distortion. What other device we need to use them with, they do not say. What do you say we use them with then?

 

[SIY]

I meant what device, not technology.

NHT says use they complement their sub. If you use them alone you will get the distortion. What other device we need to use them with, they do not say. What do you say we use them with then?

A high pass filter. Is this a mystery?

 

[Shike]

And those same multiple individuals, like you, also seem to be missing the plot on at least 2 areas:

1. This is a speaker product, drivers in a box, meant to produce sound. And there're at least a few here who used the super zero without sub. It can produce most of the audible frequencies. NHT is not some benevolent corporation. They do not actively stop people who didn't know better from buying it. Like an earlier example, it may be a 3-legged mutt, but it IS a 'bookshelf speaker' and competing in the same race as other 4-legged mutts for the same dollars. If you know how best to use the strengths of this 3 legged mutt, good for you.

Revel doesn't stop people from buying the M55XC or M8 without a subwoofer either. Surely they will be tested in the same manor correct? No?

But if people can use it without a sub, Amir reviewing it as a bookshelf speaker without a sub is perfectly fine.

You can use any speaker without a sub technically, but that's really missing the point now isn't it?

2. Like you and many others so fondly point out, NHT is very 'helpful' in encouraging people to use it with a sub as a form of disclaimer. Pair it with their sub preferably. So if writing down helpful hints is all that's needed, then note Amir's words on the M55XC:

Note: our company, Madrona Digital, is a dealer for Harman and hence Revel speakers. I don't know for a fact but we install a lot of outdoor Harman speakers in commercial and residential installations. So feel free to read as much bias as you like into this review.

Grow up.

To confirm, you're stating Amir is biased towards Revel? I believe you're in need of growing up as I haven't accused Amir of bias, but rather poor subjective testing practice on this given speaker as he clearly didn't realize its intended usage.

 

[sarumbear]

A high pass filter. Is this a mystery?

Are we using the same language? I am asking the make and model of the device that you suggest we may use. You keep telling me the filter type. Do you expect an Hi-Fi buyer to become an electronic hobbyist in order to use these speakers?

 

[Dj7675]

clearly didn't realize its intended usage.

But intended usage still would not have changed his conclusion... again because it isn't a very good speaker, even within its intended usage...

 

[Shike]

Are we using the same language? I am asking the make and model of the device that you suggest we may use. You keep telling me the filter type. Do you expect an Hi-Fi buyer to become an electronic hobbyist in order to use these speakers?

Any AVR with bass management, that means multiple makes and models - it would be rarer to find something without it.

But intended usage still would not have changed his conclusion... again because it isn't a very good speaker, even within its intended usage...

Compared to what? I'd rate it as pretty average for the segment as nothing will be amazing in it.

 

[SIY]

Are we using the same language? I am asking the make and model of the device that you suggest we may use. You keep telling me the filter type. Do you expect an Hi-Fi buyer to become an electronic hobbyist in order to use these speakers?

Apparently Google is also a mystery to you. There’s about a zillion crossover options out there. Start with Behringer, then miniDSP, then... shit, just get off your lazy butt and Google it yourself. Use “electronic crossover” and “high pass filter” as your search terms.

If using Google is too high tech for you, I’m sure you can find a 12 year old to help.

 

[EDMoser]

Are we using the same language? I am asking the make and model of the device that you suggest we may use. You keep telling me the filter type. Do you expect an Hi-Fi buyer to become an electronic hobbyist in order to use these speakers?

Any decent 5.1 receiver provides high pass crossover settings for all 5 speakers.

 

[whazzup]

Revel doesn't stop people from buying the M55XC or M8 without a subwoofer either. Surely they will be tested in the same manor correct? No?

The M55XC was tested with no sub as far as I can tell. Same like the Super zero. Have you actually compared both their horizontal directivities? How screwed up super zero's middle is? Just look at the normalized directivity graph.

You can use any speaker without a sub technically, but that's really missing the point now isn't it?

Precisely. Almost ALL the speakers reviewed here will benefit from a sub.
That's why Amir reviews all the speakers the same way he measured them in the klippel, singular and with no sub. They're all drivers in a box and reviewed as such, how much more consistent can it get? The reader figures out how to use the speaker for their own needs, not the reviewer.

To confirm, you're stating Amir is biased towards Revel? I believe you're in need of growing up as I haven't accused Amir of bias, but rather poor subjective testing practice on this given speaker as he clearly didn't realize its intended usage.

Firstly, he's a dealer....
Secondly, he's not a 10 year old who is seeing sealed speakers for the first time and needs you to teach him about 'its intended usage'...

 

[Steve Dallas]

I marvel at the massive quantity of electrons inconvenienced in this debate over the smallest, least important part of each speaker review. This is a science forum. Purchase decisions should not be made based on panthers or short paragraphs of subjective opinion. The data are what matters. The rest is spice.