NHT Super Zero 2.1 Review (bookshelf speaker)

[Bear123]

Thank you for another interesting review @amirm . I don’t understand all of the angst regarding this speaker.
-It is a current offering from the manufacturer, so it should be judged against what we now know about speakers and against current offerings.
-On axis isn’t flat or even
-Directivity is poor
-Other speakers in the price category have measured and sounded better (Some even active)
-Bass is poor
Measurements showed overall poor performance. Subjective Listening tests too showed it didn’t sound good.
Over the years this has seems to be an often suggested model at places such as AVSForum. It was a very good choice to review... now we know. Thanks for purchasing, testing, reviewing, listening to it, and writing up the review.

There seem to be two types of reactions to speakers/items that have a strong following and measure/perform poorly:

1) Gratitude for shedding light on the poor performance, in order to dispel the subjective myths about a product and get if off of the "often recommended list"

2) Anger that a product believed to be good tested poorly, so attacking the messenger delivering the message of poor performance. I've seen this happen with other products that have a strong fan base.

I do think the sub par bass extension makes these a poor choice(along with the other issues) unless diminutive size is *extremely* important. Crossing to a sub at 150 Hz is going to be an issue. For example, the Infinity R152 would be an infinitely better choice at $129/pair. Pun intended

Edit: part of what makes crossing to 120 or 150 an issue is that a huge percentage of subs do not perform well to a high enough frequency to cross to this speaker. And that frequency is not 150 but probably more like 200-250 Hz in order to effectively crossover. Not many subs have that capability, and even if they do, localization would likely be an issue.

 

[ROOSKIE]

However, as has been mentioned by several people already, the roll off happens at a pretty high bass frequency making it problematic even with a sub...

With all due respect for the challenge of managing all the variables, that roll off issue seems to be posted by people who plan to use in an anechoic chamber.

Blending a sub in room has little to do with any calculation you will ever find.

The likely in-room reality is that boost gives the speaker a little more to work with in region where SBIR crushes the predicted responses with any number of cancelations. It will also allow more flexibly with slopes and frequency when blending to the sub.
Anyone who is Audiophile enough & knowledgeable enough to care about extremely accurate bass response and sub matching will be using a quality mic and measurement software and playing around a lot with crossover frequency and slopes along with PEQ. (regular folks who don't need maximum accuracy will likely never, ever notice any mild issues)
You must use trial and error as the complexity of the in room modes, SBIR and other factors makes it impossible to avoid lots of testing.

While you will be likely be crossing between 100-150hrz, it is very likely you can get just as good of a bass response as a pair of larger monitors places on stands mated to a single sub crossed lower (50-80hrz). Anyone disagree get out your measurement gear. You can simulate this and might be really fun to try some new placements, slopes ect. This is a hobby for many after-all. Reading only gets you so far into

And those same multiple individuals, like you, also seem to be missing the plot on at least 2 areas:

1. This is a speaker product, drivers in a box, meant to produce sound. And there're at least a few here who used the super zero without sub. It can produce most of the audible frequencies. NHT is not some benevolent corporation. They do not actively stop people who didn't know better from buying it. Like an earlier example, it may be a 3-legged mutt, but it IS a 'bookshelf speaker' and competing in the same race as other 4-legged mutts for the same dollars. If you know how best to use the strengths of this 3 legged mutt, good for you.

But if people can use it without a sub, Amir reviewing it as a bookshelf speaker without a sub is perfectly fine.


2. Like you and many others so fondly point out, NHT is very 'helpful' in encouraging people to use it with a sub as a form of disclaimer. Pair it with their sub preferably. So if writing down helpful hints is all that's needed, then note Amir's words on the M55XC:



Grow up.

I really don't mean this in a snide way, Is Martin Logan going to call you up to stop you from buying one of their 10k amps to power your halfworking goodwill find?
When I put together a stereo system the emphasis is on system.
I expect to buy multiple pieces of gear. My job as a consumer is to research what I need and buy those components and then NOT buy the pieces that I do not need.
There are countless speakers sold that absolutely do not have much bass by design and require assistance from a woofer/subwoofer. This is the whole reason for the Harman rating having the "with sub".

I have no interest in the NHT speaker as I hold no illusions this dated speaker belongs in my system, but I do have an interest in shaping further reviews. There are other speakers that require subs. ALL of us are still learning in life and I do think the pearl in these sometimes intense arguments is that it shows there is clearly more to learn here.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Is NHT's X2 still in production?

No, but they come up relatively frequently on the secondhand market.

 

[Dj7675]

Have you also seen where he admits limiting bass on the Revel for his subjective testing, possibly through a high-pass?
Have you also seen where he tried to physically improve it through placement?

Why does he have zero comment on bass in relation to that speaker other than to limit it, but makes comments about it on this one?

-My understanding is that he does not limit bass in the speaker during testing.
-Could it be the speaker sounded very good except a little lacking in bass, moved it and it improved and this, combined with the other very good measurements of the speaker, made it enjoyable to listen to?

Seems like you have more of an issue with the speaker testing than the speaker. As such, it might be more appropriate in the speaker testing complaint thread?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...aint-thread-about-speaker-measurements.11139/

 

[Shike]

-My understanding is that he does not limit bass in the speaker during testing.
-Could it be the speaker sounded very good except a little lacking in bass, moved it and it improved and this, combined with the other very good measurements of the speaker, made it enjoyable to listen to?

Possibly? The way I initially read it sound like he reduced bass content for the M55XC in listening, but if wrong I of course apologize. The M55XC and SZ2.1 seem to have somewhat similar distortion profiles though. The fact is this is a knowingly bass limited design just like the M55XC, so bringing up bass in subjective impressions seems odd to me.

Seems like you have more of an issue with the speaker testing than the speaker. As such, it might be more appropriate in the speaker testing complaint thread?

That's complaints about measurements and not subjective testing, which is more of what I got at. I'm totally cool him not liking it and the objective results, but I think the subjective eval showed he missed the main usage. Based on my impression usage seems to impact his subjective section at times which is why this bugs me a bit.

I certainly wouldn't say it's a great performer, it definitely has issues. Personally I'd say this and the M55XC are both shrugs - they are too usage dependent, but that's me.

 

[amirm]

These speakers would likely make decent computer speakers. Most modern PCs' onboard audio can set a speaker config and a HP filter to the L/R speakers.

You need an amplifier with them. You are much better off getting a little powered monitor like I talked about in the review. Like these iLoud MTMs: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...imedia-iloud-mtm-review-active-monitor.18347/

And it has flat bass down to almost 60 Hz despite being a tiny speaker.

 

[Octopie]

Manufacturer says these are "true high-end mini-monitors". They are falsehoods. (Have you missed him already?) These speakers may only be used as satellites on a surround set-up with an AVR. Maybe that is why they are not sold as pairs.

Then again who wants surround speakers with such bad directivity...

here you go for under $25:
https://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-fmod-inline-crossover-pair-150-hz-high-pass-rca--266-276

These can be used in some setups. I’ve used them with vintage receivers.

 

[raistlin65]

I do think the sub par bass extension makes these a poor choice(along with the other issues) unless diminutive size is *extremely* important. Crossing to a sub at 150 Hz is going to be an issue. For example, the Infinity R152 would be an infinitely better choice at $129/pair. Pun intended

Agreed. The Superzeroes were popular at AVS forums (when they would go on sale) for many years for use in a budget desktop setup or for surrounds due to their small size. And the fact that they are sealed, which allows them to be mounted directly on the wall, or placed against it a wall in a desktop setup. It's a niche usage case. But for other contexts, there have always been better choices.

They also create a challenge in budget sub matching, as one has to find a sub that has a fairly linear response from the upper midbass region down into the subbass. Whereas many budget subs are so humpy in that 50hz to 80hz range, that they would be a terrible match with the Superzeroes. There would be a midbass hole. lol

 

[amirm]

I'm totally cool him not liking it and the objective results, but I think the subjective eval showed he missed the main usage device.

No I didn't. Once more, this speaker is sold stand-alone. It is not part of a subwoofer package. So I tested it objectively that way. And subjectively that way. Now people know that on both fronts, this speaker is not a good choice. Here is one of the recommendations made in my "budget speakers to test thread:"

You see a mention of buying a sub to go with it? You don't, right?

That is what I did. Bought one to test. Subjectively and objectively it is no good as a budget speaker. That you can spend more money on it and mess around with a sub is neither here, nor there.

So please don't keep repeating these empty arguments. We are not two year olds.

 

[Shike]

No I didn't. Once more, this speaker is sold stand-alone. It is not part of a subwoofer package. So I tested it objectively that way.

To confirm, will you be reviewing the M8 in the same fashion then?

You see a mention of buying a sub to go with it? You don't, right?

Because that wouldn't make sense in the context of Klippel measurements which I presume most of us are aware, correct?

 

[raistlin65]

No I didn't. Once more, this speaker is sold stand-alone. It is not part of a subwoofer package. So I tested it objectively that way. And subjectively that way. Now people know that on both fronts, this speaker is not a good choice. Here is one of the recommendations made in my "budget speakers to test thread:"

View attachment 101179

You see a mention of buying a sub to go with it? You don't, right?

That is what I did. Bought one to test. Subjectively and objectively it is no good as a budget speaker. That you can spend more money on it and mess around with a sub is neither here, nor there.

So please don't keep repeating these empty arguments. We are not two year olds.

What is the alternative, superior passive speaker in the $150 to $200 a pair price range that is similarly small, and is either sealed or front ported? Since that is the context in which the Superzero has to compete.

 

[whazzup]

Agreed. The Superzeroes were popular at AVS forums (when they would go on sale) for many years for use in a budget desktop setup or for surrounds due to their small size. And the fact that they are sealed, which allows them to be mounted directly on the wall, or placed against it a wall in a desktop setup. It's a niche usage case. But for other contexts, there have always been better choices.

They also create a challenge in budget sub matching, as one has to find a sub that has a fairly linear response from the upper midbass region down into the subbass. Whereas many budget subs are so humpy in that 50hz to 80hz range, that they would be a terrible match with the Superzeroes. There would be a midbass hole. lol

No no, you need to get NHT's sub. Match made in heaven. Although all their subs' low pass top out at 140hz. So the magical number should be 140 and not 150hz?

 

[raistlin65]

No no, you need to get NHT's sub. Match made in heaven. Although all their subs' low pass top out at 140hz. So the magical number should be 140 and not 150hz?

I don't know what you mean about match made in heaven. I have never seen measurements for that sub.

 

[whazzup]

I don't know what you mean about match made in heaven. I have never seen measurements for that sub.

Because NHT says their sub complements the super zero perfectly...

 

[amirm]

To confirm, will you be reviewing the M8 in the same fashion then?

Of course. Where have you been? I have probably tested 100 bookshelf speakers. When did you ever see me add a sub to them to test? Never.

Because that wouldn't make sense in the context of Klippel measurements which I presume most of us are aware, correct?

My reviews have always had listening tests. So no, it was not just to be measured. Indeed that poster that recommended it is in this thread and not only asking for my subjective review, but also asking that I use two of them to test for imaging.

So once more, you are argument is without merit. I have been buying and testing budget speakers for a year. That is what was recommended to buy and test. And that is what I did.

 

[Bear123]

What is the alternative, superior passive speaker in the $150 to $200 a pair price range that is similarly small, and is either sealed or front ported? Since that is the context in which the Superzero has to compete.

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR
Neither sealed nor front ported, but as long as not wall mounted won't matter. They also aren't quite as small. But if the size were OK these seem like a much better recommendation other than flush mounting to a wall.

Personally, if an extremely small speaker were very important for me, keeping the price similar I might look at the iLoud single woofer micro monitor.

 

[Shike]

Of course. Where have you been? I have probably tested 100 bookshelf speakers. When did you ever see me add a sub to them to test? Never.

Let me rephrase:

So to confirm, are you going to rate them subjectively within the same context of a full-range bookshelf speaker? Will you hold the lack of bass the same?

 

[amirm]

What is the alternative, superior passive speaker in the $150 to $200 a pair price range that is similarly small, and is either sealed or front ported? Since that is the context in which the Superzero has to compete.

I don't care what it is "meant to compete in." I asked for budget speakers to test and this was recommended. I tested it and reported such. You can use the speaker review index and see what fits your need. If this is the only one and you are OK with lousy performance, then buy it.

I made my own views known that if you want a tiny speaker that performs well, look to active ones.

 

[amirm]

Let me rephrase:

So to confirm, are you going to rate them subjectively within the same context of a full-range bookshelf speaker? Will you hold the lack of bass the same?

Every speaker is either tested in near-field, or far field in identical setting. Every speaker. As to your proclamation, sounds like you already know the performance of that speaker without me even measuring or listening to it. How did you come about on that information?

 

[whazzup]

I really don't mean this in a snide way, Is Martin Logan going to call you up to stop you from buying one of their 10k amps to power your halfworking goodwill find?
When I put together a stereo system the emphasis is on system.
I expect to buy multiple pieces of gear. My job as a consumer is to research what I need and buy those components and then NOT buy the pieces that I do not need.
There are countless speakers sold that absolutely do not have much bass by design and require assistance from a woofer/subwoofer. This is the whole reason for the Harman rating having the "with sub".

Sorry, not sure if I understand what you're saying.

Regarding the sub, no doubt many speakers are designed to work with one. But the simple reality is Amir (or his rig) is not set up for testing with sub in any consistent fashion. Unless he or someone else has a viable alternative, it's going to stay that way.

And it's just funny how time and again people don't see this very real limitation and keep thinking they're entitled to this or that.