New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

[spankjam]

The older ones were just a bit brighter sounding, a bit too bright IMO.
The newer ones were less bright and needed less correction to sound good to me.

That's perfect, I think if there was a subtle change to make, it'd been to make them a little bit less bright so I'd be happy.

My 2024 pair will arrive in a day or two, found it for 130 with a coupon code from Sennheiser themselves, new.

I mainly mix now on a pair of ProAcs and Amphions, switching from Yamaha NS10m (1978) and KRKs.

That way my HD650 didn't correlate that well with what I achieved on the speakers anymore, even though I love them to bits, they sound comparatively now rather old.

I hope the 560s will do the trick so I don't have to try out the 490 Pro. Basically needed a more clear and responsive version of the 650s with a better low end.

 

[Alchemist_]

Don't the new 560s now have a sticker with an ID number?

 

[Robbo99999]

Don't the new 560s now have a sticker with an ID number?

I can't see any stickers or any serial numbers on the actual headphones, I've got 3 units of Old Version & 1 unit of New Version. I've found 3 of my boxes that the headphones came in and the serial number is on the outside of the box. The serial number is a 10 figure number. My New Version serial number starts with 0263. One of the Old Version serial numbers starts with 0091, and the other Old Version one starts with 0201. It's possible the serial numbers are increasing with each unit produced, I mean that's what you'd expect and that could be the pattern I'm seeing. I suppose if your headphone starts with 0263 or greater then maybe it's guaranteed to be the New Version, maybe, I don't really know how they number them?? (And the cut off point would be before that point too, just I wouldn't know when).

 

[Alchemist_]

I can't see any stickers or any serial numbers on the actual headphones, I've got 3 units of Old Version & 1 unit of New Version. I've found 3 of my boxes that the headphones came in and the serial number is on the outside of the box. The serial number is a 10 figure number. My New Version serial number starts with 0263. One of the Old Version serial numbers starts with 0091, and the other Old Version one starts with 0201. It's possible the serial numbers are increasing with each unit produced, I mean that's what you'd expect and that could be the pattern I'm seeing. I suppose if your headphone starts with 0263 or greater then maybe it's guaranteed to be the New Version, maybe, I don't really know how they number them?? (And the cut off point would be before that point too, just I wouldn't know when).

I mean the sticker on the box that verifies the uniqueness of Sennheiser.

 

[spankjam]

I can't see any stickers or any serial numbers on the actual headphones, I've got 3 units of Old Version & 1 unit of New Version. I've found 3 of my boxes that the headphones came in and the serial number is on the outside of the box. The serial number is a 10 figure number. My New Version serial number starts with 0263. One of the Old Version serial numbers starts with 0091, and the other Old Version one starts with 0201. It's possible the serial numbers are increasing with each unit produced, I mean that's what you'd expect and that could be the pattern I'm seeing. I suppose if your headphone starts with 0263 or greater then maybe it's guaranteed to be the New Version, maybe, I don't really know how they number them?? (And the cut off point would be before that point too, just I wouldn't know when).

Do you think ordering two of them is enough to avoid a bad pair?

 

[Alchemist_]

The most interesting question: does a freshly purchased 400 pro also sound like a new 560?

 

[Robbo99999]

Do you think ordering two of them is enough to avoid a bad pair?

Yes, I would think so, but why not just order one and then send it back if it has channel imbalance. If you order two at once then you'd been in a position where you're likely gonna end up getting two good pairs and then you'll have to send one good pair back which is a bit dodgy/unethical.

I mean the sticker on the box that verifies the uniqueness of Sennheiser.

The sticker with the QR code saying Original Sennheiser is the same on both Old Version & New Version boxes, visually at least, and there doesn't appear to be any unique number on there related to the particular unit (so there's not a serial number on there or anything). (Of course there is a seperate sticker with the serial number on it though, which I mentioned in the previous post.)

The most interesting question: does a freshly purchased 400 pro also sound like a new 560?

This has been asked before, and no one knows. They're supposed to be the same headphone, but we don't know if the New Version HD560s softer pads are being used on the HD400 Pro or not. You'd kind of think they would be. Solderdude said driver matching was supposedly tighter on the HD400 Pro, but I'm not sure how he knows or thinks that.

 

[spankjam]

Is this measurement by Resolve from headphone accurate? Because that low end extension for an open headphone is amazing, makes it capable of playing back lots of low end heavy records properly

And the low end on the new model is apparently even better?

I mean technically, I wouldn't even touch anything upwards 100 Hz and just bring the low end up by around 3 decibels and it'd be perfect.

 

[Robbo99999]

Is this measurement by Resolve from headphone accurate? Because that low end extension for an open headphone is amazing, makes it capable of playing back lots of low end heavy records properly

View attachment 361152
And the low end on the new model is apparently even better?

I mean technically, I wouldn't even touch anything upwards 100 Hz and just bring the low end up by around 3 decibels and it'd be perfect.

HD560s have always been ok extended in the bass. New Version HD560s is better extended in the bass though. Following is what my New Version HD560s measures like, converting from miniDSP EARS to GRAS measurement:

The darker line is after EQ, but you can see how well extended in the bass it is from the faint line. I think that reflects the reality of what I perceive when I wear them and they require the least severe bass EQ out of all my open backed headphones. I wouldn't get too hung up on the bass measurements though, as a rule, because you end up EQ'ing that area to personal taste anyway.

 

[spankjam]

HD560s have always been ok extended in the bass. New Version HD560s is better extended in the bass though. Following is what my New Version HD560s measures like, converting from miniDSP EARS to GRAS measurement:

The darker line is after EQ, but you can see how well extended in the bass it is from the faint line. I think that reflects the reality of what I perceive when I wear them and they require the least severe bass EQ out of all my open backed headphones. I wouldn't get too hung up on the bass measurements though, as a rule, because you end up EQ'ing that area to personal taste anyway.

Is that graph based on the new 560s? I'll try your settings but mainly for the low end.

Is there a reason why you didn't equalize the 10k area with a narrow Q?

User based low end preference has in my opinion less to do with the individuals' ears and more with the content they consume.

I'd use Serban's mixes to reference the low end because in my opinion he's one of the few engineers who's parking it correctly (meaning average human acoustically in the technical right amount), matching measured statistics.

 

[Robbo99999]

Is that graph based on the new 560s? I'll try your settings but mainly for the low end.

Is there a reason why you didn't equalize the 10k area with a narrow Q?

User based low end preference has in my opinion less to do with the individuals' ears and more with the content they consume.

I'd use Serban's mixes to reference the low end because in my opinion he's one of the few engineers who's parking it correctly (meaning average human acoustically in the technical right amount), matching measured statistics.

Yes, that's based on New Version HD560s.

There's practically always a notch showing in the 10kHz area for measurements done using GRAS, so that certainly doesn't want to be EQ'd up the target, it doesn't mean the headphone has a dip there. Here's where Oratory talks about this characteristic of GRAS measurements:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/faq/#wiki_why_do_you_never_use_eq_to_remove_that_drop_at_around_9-10_khz_on_over-ear_headphones.3F

 

[spankjam]

Yes, that's based on New Version HD560s.

There's practically always a notch showing in the 10kHz area for measurements done using GRAS, so that certainly doesn't want to be EQ'd up the target, it doesn't mean the headphone has a dip there. Here's where Oratory talks about this characteristic of GRAS measurements:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/faq/#wiki_why_do_you_never_use_eq_to_remove_that_drop_at_around_9-10_khz_on_over-ear_headphones.3F

Gotcha, is there any accurate measurement that shows how it performs on 10k?

Is it possible to apply APO on an audio device and use it in Avid's Pro Tools at the same time?

 

[Robbo99999]

Gotcha, is there any accurate measurement that shows how it performs on 10k?

Is it possible to apply APO on an audio device and use it in Avid's Pro Tools at the same time?

Maybe you could look at some flat plate measurements over on diyaudioheaven (which is solderdude's website):

HD560S

back to Sennheiser back to measurements home published: Sep-24-2020, updated: May-03-2024 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

I'd say it's ok there at 10kHz, but it's hard to know how relevant a flat plate measurement can be. You could try listening to sine tones through that area to see if there are any crazy dips or peaks, but you'd probably have to do the same using known flat anechoic speakers to make sure your ears don't have natural undulations in that area - mine do for instance so you can't assume the peaks you hear with sine tones in headphones are problems because sometimes you have quirky natural peaks that are specific to the individual's hearing that aren't related to actual peaks in the headphone.

 

[spankjam]

Maybe you could look at some flat plate measurements over on diyaudioheaven (which is solderdude's website):

HD560S

back to Sennheiser back to measurements home published: Sep-24-2020, updated: May-03-2024 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

I'd say it's ok there at 10kHz, but it's hard to know how relevant a flat plate measurement can be. You could try listening to sine tones through that area to see if there are any crazy dips or peaks, but you'd probably have to do the same using known flat anechoic speakers to make sure your ears don't have natural undulations in that area - mine do for instance so you can't assume the peaks you hear with sine tones in headphones are problems because sometimes you have quirky natural peaks that are specific to the individual's hearing that aren't related to actual peaks in the headphone.

Yup, that's a thing that's hard to guess because half of it is also how your hearing got used to devices you've listened music with all your life besides the sheer physicality of the ear.

I'll give it a shot today, finally arrived. Will try it with my Phone adapter and the Lynx Aurora (n)'s headphone amp, which is in my opinion one of the best ones on the market in terms of juice and transparency. 120 ohms should work with a more powerful device right?

 

[Robbo99999]

Yup, that's a thing that's hard to guess because half of it is also how your hearing got used to devices you've listened music with all your life besides the sheer physicality of the ear.

I'll give it a shot today, finally arrived. Will try it with my Phone adapter and the Lynx Aurora (n)'s headphone amp, which is in my opinion one of the best ones on the market in terms of juice and transparency. 120 ohms should work with a more powerful device right?

Probably the most important thing to consider with a headphone amp is the output impedance of the headphone amp. You want to make sure the headphone's impedance is at least 10 times greater than the output impedance of the headphone amp to avoid potential for the amp to change the frequency response of the headphone - so you'll have to check your specs. Most good headphone amps will have output impedance of less than one ohm nowadays, but you'd have to check your specs.

 

[spankjam]

Probably the most important thing to consider with a headphone amp is the output impedance of the headphone amp. You want to make sure the headphone's impedance is at least 10 times greater than the output impedance of the headphone amp to avoid potential for the amp to change the frequency response of the headphone - so you'll have to check your specs. Most good headphone amps will have output impedance of less than one ohm nowadays, but you'd have to check your specs.

Specs are:

• Output power: 68mW @ 600Ω, 135mW @ 300Ω, 383mW @ 60Ω, 212mW @ 32Ω, 100mW @ 16Ω

• Output level: 18.4dBu maximum

 

[zonk]

Sennheiser HD560S refurbished for 99€
https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/de-DE/p/hd-560s-refurbished/

 

[spankjam]

Sennheiser HD560S refurbished for 99€
https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/de-DE/p/hd-560s-refurbished/

You were able to get it new for 130 till last week.

 

[Robbo99999]

Specs are:

• Output power: 68mW @ 600Ω, 135mW @ 300Ω, 383mW @ 60Ω, 212mW @ 32Ω, 100mW @ 16Ω
• Output level: 18.4dBu maximum

It doesn't list output impedance then? If I was you I'd try to find a review on it where they measure output impedance. Anyway, headphone amps are pretty non-controversial items, it pays to just get one that's been measured as decent here on ASR, there's literally loads to be chosen from. Ultimately it's not really relevant to this thread.

 

[Alchemist_]

Not long ago I tried another 560 with a short cable, it seemed that the sound differed less in the top and more dirt in the middle. The pressure is also strong, but a little weaker. I also returned it because of the pressure (