New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

[XandrMandr]

Hello, I also bought a pair in October of last year and wanted to share what I found with my unit in regards to the discussion about channel imbalance, for the more experienced here do you think a difference in thickness of the dust guard may cause this? The right dust cover on mine is noticeably thicker and harder to shine a light through compared to the left one. The fabric on the right also seems tighter knit together and less porous but at the same time, the left one is also relatively thick as I cannot see the drivers easily when removing the earpads. When doing an audio sweep test I noticed on certain higher frequencies sound would shift a little from left to right and wanted to learn more about what might be causing that I own the X2HR, M50X, K612, and HE400SE all seem to sound right in the center for me for the most part. I don't have any way to measure, so I can't give any data to back up my claims other than what I hear. I also have a pair of HD569 and used the dust guards on those, they have roughly the same thickness as the left one of my HD560s and is what I'm using now, to me it sounds like it fixed the panning when listening to an audio sweep but it also sounds a bit brighter overall. I'm pretty new to this tho so excuse my incompetence if this whole thing seems a little silly.

 

[solderdude]

The acoustic difference between these dust-guards is very small (less than 0.5dB).

It is in a similar order of slightly changing positioning of the headphone on the head.
As I had to take the headphones off, remove the pads, replace the dust-guard, put the pads back on and reposition the headphone again (which likely will not be in the exact same position) chances are the differences shown might even be caused by that action alone.

It is a it weird that they used different ones in one headphone though but reckon, at some point in time, the old ones in stock/production will have been mixed with the newer ones.

 

[XandrMandr]

The acoustic difference between these dust-guards is very small (less than 0.5dB).

It is in a similar order of slightly changing positioning of the headphone on the head.
As I had to take the headphones off, remove the pads, replace the dust-guard, put the pads back on and reposition the headphone again (which likely will not be in the exact same position) chances are the differences shown might even be caused by that action alone.

It is a it weird that they used different ones in one headphone though but reckon, at some point in time, the old ones in stock/production will have been mixed with the newer ones.

Ohhhh I see alrighty that makes sense! Thank you for responding much appreciated, it did take me a couple of tries to put it back together too idk what I did but the right side would rattle on lower frequencies

Yeah I did find that odd too I thought it was a tuning thing at first But that is reasonable tho glad to know it isn't a major cause for concern. Perhaps what I hear is because I attached it back incorrectly

 

[Robbo99999]

It was a generic reply saying nothing has changed with the pads.

Yeah, well we know that's not true! I thought Sennheiser would be a bit reluctant to acknowledge changes to their production models! I think at this point the community (us) just has to run with our data (the measurements me & @solderdude did) to say "yes, the new pads are different now & the sonics have changed, and this is our best estimate of current production models based on our measurements". I measured a very significant difference between Old & New Version HD560s, and I'm ultimately pleased they updated the model because the new HD560s I've found to be better even with EQ, I've got to that point where I'm confident I've assessed it has more potential, I think it's smoother & more even in the treble in the parts that you can't EQ (so 8kHz+). I also think the softer pads enable a more reliable seal and spuriously I think the slightly closer ear to driver distance makes a Harman EQ more accurate, they just seem like the best balanced headphones after my best EQ tweaking attempts, which I think is based on a solid base measurement & also the fact that I think they're really well balanced even at stock without EQ so they don't need extreme EQ. So far they're my best headphone, (but I do have an HD800 I need to work on in the wings, but it's a difficult beast as a starting point because the frequency response is wild).

 

[donunus]

This new 560 is definitely something special. Maybe someone here can get a pair of those hd400pro pads from amazon and report back as to whether they are like the older or newer 560s pads

 

[Phosphenetre]

This new 560 is definitely something special. Maybe someone here can get a pair of those hd400pro pads from amazon and report back as to whether they are like the older or newer 560s pads

I'd be very interested to know if the new 560s sound is something they've mirrored in a new HD400 Pro too.

 

[donunus]

you mean the 490 pro

 

[solderdude]

you mean the 490 pro

HD400 Pro = HD560S with different cables and color scheme and tighter tolerance of driver matching/quality.

HD490 Pro = a completely different headphone but uses the same drivers (but different baffle/porting/rear damping.

 

[donunus]

I said 490 pro because we all already know that the 400 is the same as the 560s. The 490 is probably using the same driver as well

 

[Alchemist_]

HD400 Pro = HD560S tighter tolerance of driver matching/quality.

Is this information from Sennheiser? or did it appear by chance when measuring a large number of 560s/400s?

 

[donunus]

ok I thought the 400 pro was just the 560s with different accessories since many comparisons seem to say they are very similar and differences are possibly manufacturing variation while these new 560s sound even more different than the 400 pro to the first 560s. Could be as simple as pads making that difference I dont know

 

[solderdude]

The same parts are used. I assume the HD400Pro and HD560S are made on the exact same assembly line (so same pads = HD559 pads).
Difference in sound seems to be mostly caused by the new batch of pads.
I have been told that the driver also has undergone some small changes.
The Pro versions have tighter tolerance in drivers (which are pre-selected in grades during driver production so easy to select).

 

[Alchemist_]

The Pro versions have tighter tolerance in drivers (which are pre-selected in grades during driver production so easy to select).

Is this also part of your assumption? Right?

 

[solderdude]

No, the pro department (as well as Neumann) get selected drivers with tighter tolerances.

 

[Alchemist_]

No, the pro department (as well as Neumann) get selected drivers with tighter tolerances.

I think that the 400 PRO differs from the 560 only in color and the presence of a coiled cable. The price difference is just 47 euros, the same as the twisted cable costs. If there was any advantage in terms of selecting speakers, it would have already been highlighted on the official website; those who specifically select speakers make an advertising feature out of it. And the 560 measurements are generally good.

Perhaps speakers with a more strict selection go to 490 PRO and NDH. They are significantly more expensive, this is logical.

 

[solderdude]

I have seen more unit to unit variance in the newer HD560S than in the older ones but only tested 3 of each which is a small sample size so there seems to be quite some variance in those drivers even though these are machine produced.

What's weird though was that the first NDH-30 Oratory measured had a massive L-R mismatch where it is said that Neumann gets the tightest tolerance drivers.
Maybe something else was wrong with it.

 

[Alchemist_]

I have seen more unit to unit variance in the newer HD560S than in the older ones but only tested 3 of each which is a small sample size so there seems to be quite some variance in those drivers even though these are machine produced.

What's weird though was that the first NDH-30 Oratory measured had a massive L-R mismatch where it is said that Neumann gets the tightest tolerance drivers.
Maybe something else was wrong with it.

I got a 560S (with a short cable).

In Feb '22 I had a 560s (with long cable)
In the old version, when using the equalizer, I had distortions from the bass, now there are none at all... (maybe I turned it differently, maybe the manufacturer did a lot of work on the speakers).
I really liked the SOUND of the headphones right away. I correct them with an equalizer.
By the way, the new version is really not as bright as the old one.
It even seems that the cable has become less microphonic than 2 years ago.
The ear pads are soft, I can’t call them hard.
I like that the ear pads are not wide and do not cover the skin too much.

But the trouble is that the clamping force is very huge) I’m not used to this... I’m sitting and thinking, if I buy 490, will I get the same sound?

 

[krumpol]

Yeah, well we know that's not true!

Do we?
You seem to be convinced the memory foam is softer in revised model, according Solderdude's article it is firmer though. Since you both have measured the same difference in frequency response with softer and firmer pads, I think driver has been changed and memory foam properties are not that important.

 

[Robbo99999]

Do we?
You seem to be convinced the memory foam is softer in revised model, according Solderdude's article it is firmer though. Since you both have measured the same difference in frequency response with softer and firmer pads, I think driver has been changed and memory foam properties are not that important.

Unfortunately you're wrong. Solderdude's observations were that the pads of the New Version are softer than the Old Version, which is the same observation as myself - I even have (in my current possession) 3 units of Old Version HD560s and 1 unit of New Version (& having measured an additional 1 unit of New Version to make it 2 units of New Version), and it is immediately obvious & clear that the New Version pads are softer. You also use the term "memory foam", I don't think it's memory foam in either of the pads to be honest. Solderdude has already done the work and shown that the pads / drivers / and "netting" have all contributed to the changes from Old Version to New Version, with mainly the pads being the biggest driving force for that change. It's not really in dispute.

 

[solderdude]

’m sitting and thinking, if I buy 490, will I get the same sound?

You will have more comfort and either have warmer/fuller sound or brighter/thinner sound (using as is).
Of course the sound can be EQ'ed.

In the old version, when using the equalizer, I had distortions from the bass, now there are none at all... (maybe I turned it differently, maybe the manufacturer did a lot of work on the speakers).

I don't know about this. The (in total 6) I measured showed the same behavior in the bass.
I cannot measure above 100dB SPL in the bass though but don't think the driver changed that much in the bass.
Of course the less bright signature is also perceived as having more body/warmth by a lot of people.