New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

[kokoboko]

I think that's right. I don't use Peace anymore but I remember there were only two options for High Shelf Filters, one was with a Fixed Q where the Q value was greyed out and you couldn't change it, and the other option was with a Q value you could change - is that correct in terms of what you're saying? If what I'm saying is correct, then you must be using the correct one because you don't have the Q value greyed out. Does that marry with the options you see in Peace for High Shelf Filters? I only ask because I don't have it installed to check.

EDIT: after googling this looking at Oratory advice within last year (because Peace changed a few years ago re Shelf Filters), the right one to use is "High Shelf (Q as slope). And to double check with you, that still lets you change the Q value right, it's not greyed out?

Good morning,
there are 3 High Shelf filters : one without Q, one with Q as slope and another one with corner frequency + Q as slope.

 

[Robbo99999]

Good morning,
there are 3 High Shelf filters : one without Q, one with Q as slope and another one with corner frequency + Q as slope.

I think it's the "High Shelf (Q as slope)". To verify could you put in those 3 High Shelf Filters, then temporarily disable all the others, then click on the Graph Icon that I circled in red in the following pic, and then post up a screenshot of it?

If you can't find an easy way to temporarily disable all the other filters, then just click on that Graph Icon anyway and then I'll try to work out if the Total EQ Curve looks the same as the one I'm using. (After you click on the Graph Icon try to change the settings so that the Grid is showing at as many intervals as possible as that will make it more accurate for me to check).

 

[kokoboko]

Here it is

 

[Robbo99999]

Here it is

Could you adjust the y-axis so it like plus & minus 5dB? Your 60dB range on the y-axis means I can't compare it very accurately.
(I know it doesn't look like much of an adjustment, those 3 filters but because it effects the whole frequency response range then it's audible, and it looks less significant when you've got your 60dB range on the y-axis.)

And one more change actually, could you change the dB values to -1dB for each of the 3 filters - it's just to make a bigger difference to allow me to check the accuracy of the filters when I compare what you're seeing versus what I'm gonna see in REW.

EDIT: after doing all that it should look like this in terms of data points for you to cross check. If you post up your screenshot I'll check it too.

EDIT#2: obviously when you listen to the headphone you'll change those filters back to -0.42dB & activate all your other filters you turned off, but this what we're doing here is just checking that you've got the right High Shelf Filter type selected by cross checking data points between us.

 

[kokoboko]

Hi, I will keep it simple. Even without the linier filters it is great sound. I am new to this matter and I am afraid that will not be able to follow the instructions. The sound with your filter is good enough for me, thanks. I might need something for more volume though, because of the -5 preamp. I use them directly to the laptop. Maybe will go for FILO K11 dongle for 30 euro. Can't find apple us dongle in EU

 

[Robbo99999]

Hi, I will keep it simple. Even without the linier filters it is great sound. I am new to this matter and I am afraid that will not be able to follow the instructions. The sound with your filter is good enough for me, thanks. I might need something for more volume though, because of the -5 preamp. I use them directly to the laptop. Maybe will go for FILO K11 dongle for 30 euro. Can't find apple us dongle in EU

I think you've chosen the right High Shelf Filters though so it's your call if you want to try out my EQ with or without those 3 extra High Shelf Filters - but if you do use those 3 High Shelf Filters use them at -0.42dB to start with, and then tweak them as necessary. But yeah, if you like the sound without those 3 extra High Shelf Filters, then that's all good, and I'm glad my EQ helped you out.

Re the negative preamp, you can use -4.1dB rather than 5dB if you want to give you a little bit more volume, but that's only a small change. As for DAC/amps then there's plenty to choose from that have been measured here on ASR - I don't think the FiiO K11 has been measured here on ASR so I'd be a bit wary of it. It's best to buy something that you know measures well, so have a look through the DAC/amps that have been measured here on ASR. Sometimes it's better value to get one of the devices that is both DAC & amp rather than 2 seperates but it just depends.....see what you can find here on ASR.

 

[jurgu]

I guess the variation between units is mostly pad related. I took some pictures of the pads which came with my 2021 unit, my 2024 unit and the official 572287 (HD559) replacement pads for it, which I bought from Thomann. The 2021 units pads have been used a lot more than the 2024 units pads, the 572287 replacement pads are hardly used and basically like new.

Keep in mind that the angle of the camera and the lightning might make the pads look a bit different than they look in real life.

The 2021 units pads are bit taller than the 2024 pads. The 2024 units pads are softer and more wrinkled at the sides than the 2021 pads.

Seeing a difference between the 2021 pads and the 572287 replacement pads is very though, they look very similar, biggest difference here is, that the 572287 pads are firmer.

However, as I posted before, all of these pads measure and sound different. I did some new measurements which you can see down below.

All measurements are done on a 3.5mm Clone IEC 60318-4 connected to a EU-version of the apple dongle, with a Clone KB501X pinna and a 3D printed stand designed by CapraAudio. All measurements are of the right side pad only, I also used the same 2024 unit for all measurments and just switched the pads. I used the SMSL DO300 (volume setting 0dB) connected over XLR to a Topping A90D (volume setting 55, standard volume curve, 4.4mm output) as source.

Several reseats of the 2024 pads compared to the 2021 pads (a bit smoothed so its easier to see). The 2021 pads have a bit more bass and less treble.

Here are the 572287 pads added, which measures totally different.

And here all measurements averaged and aligned at 630 Hz:

The correlation i see from looking at these measurements is, that the frequency repsonse gets more down tilted as the pads get firmer.


Since people have had concerns that the 572287 pads I bought were fake pads, here is a picture of the pad with packaging.

To my knowledge, these are genuine pads.

 

[Robbo99999]

I guess the variation between units is mostly pad related. I took some pictures of the pads which came with my 2021 unit, my 2024 unit and the official 572287 (HD559) replacement pads for it, which I bought from Thomann. The 2021 units pads have been used a lot more than the 2024 units pads, the 572287 replacement pads are hardly used and basically like new.
View attachment 380550
View attachment 380551
View attachment 380553

Keep in mind that the angle of the camera and the lightning might make the pads look a bit different than they look in real life.

The 2021 units pads are bit taller than the 2024 pads. The 2024 units pads are softer and more wrinkled at the sides than the 2021 pads.

Seeing a difference between the 2021 pads and the 572287 replacement pads is very though, they look very similar, biggest difference here is, that the 572287 pads are firmer.

However, as I posted before, all of these pads measure and sound different. I did some new measurements which you can see down below.

All measurements are done on a 3.5mm Clone IEC 60318-4 connected to a EU-version of the apple dongle, with a Clone KB501X pinna and a 3D printed stand designed by CapraAudio. All measurements are of the right side pad only, I also used the same 2024 unit for all measurments and just switched the pads. I used the SMSL DO300 (volume setting 0dB) connected over XLR to a Topping A90D (volume setting 55, standard volume curve, 4.4mm output) as source.
View attachment 380556


Several reseats of the 2024 pads compared to the 2021 pads (a bit smoothed so its easier to see). The 2021 pads have a bit more bass and less treble.
View attachment 380557


Here are the 572287 pads added, which measures totally different.
View attachment 380558


And here all measurements averaged and aligned at 630 Hz:
View attachment 380560


The correlation i see from looking at these measurements is, that the frequency repsonse gets more down tilted as the pads get firmer.


Since people have had concerns that the 572287 pads I bought were fake pads, here is a picture of the pad with packaging.
View attachment 380561
To my knowledge, these are genuine pads.

I had started to type out a semi long response on what I was seeing here with your measurements, but you've actually showed these measurements before but in a slightly different format, and I already responded briefly to that here:

New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

Do we? You seem to be convinced the memory foam is softer in revised model, according Solderdude's article it is firmer though. Since you both have measured the same difference in frequency response with softer and firmer pads, I think driver has been changed and memory foam properties are not...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So people will easily be able to trace back that discussion to see your earlier post, and we also continued on the discussion a bit after that point. There's just too much wrong & illogical with the observations you've made, amoungst them being one of your assertions that firmer pads are more downtilted than soft pads for frequency response - there's just a lot that doesn't ring true, so I really doubt the legitimacy of the information being shown.....that combined with you being a new poster who has only ever posted in this thread. Sorry, my spider senses won't accept it, lol.

 

[jurgu]

but you've actually showed these measurements before but in a slightly different format, and I already

Yeah, I just didn´t have access to my old unit back then after I did the first measurements and also didnt specify what exactly is used for the measurements, thats why i made a new post to elaborate all that. And i also wanted to show actual pictures of the pads, cause the old units pads are worn a lot more than the new pads.

There's just too much wrong & illogical with the observations you've made, amoungst them being one of your assertions that firmer pads are more downtilted than soft pads for frequency response - there's just a lot that doesn't ring true, so I really doubt the legitimacy of the information being shown.....that combined with you being a new poster who has only ever posted in this thread. Sorry, my spider senses won't accept it, lol.

"Too much wrong & illogical"? What do you mean by that? Just because I mentioned the pad firmness? I said its a correlation I observed, i never said that the pad firmness is the cause of the change in frequency response.

What else is wrong? My Measurements? Beause they dont align with what you measured on your MiniDSP Rig or because I dont have thousands of posts here?

I think i elaborated enough on what rig im using to measure this results, if you think these results are not valid, then i think you should also doubt the results you´re getting from the MiniDSP Ears.

I dont think i did any mistakes measuring the headphones, all the measurments correlate with what i hear when i wear the headphones. And if I did something wrong, please tell me, im also just a guy who tries to learn about headphones and want to share what i measure.

 

[Miguelón]

It seems to me that they realized that their 560s is too competitive for its own product range. The difference to the 6 models became too small, especially in europe where you cannot get a 6xx.

Thats why they first release the 400 pro (basically the same phone but more expensive) and now downgrade the 560s.

The 6xx isn’t exactly the same as 650s?

I red that it was the same, don’t remember where

 

[Robbo99999]

Yeah, I just didn´t have access to my old unit back then after I did the first measurements and also didnt specify what exactly is used for the measurements, thats why i made a new post to elaborate all that. And i also wanted to show actual pictures of the pads, cause the old units pads are worn a lot more than the new pads.


"Too much wrong & illogical"? What do you mean by that? Just because I mentioned the pad firmness? I said its a correlation I observed, i never said that the pad firmness is the cause of the change in frequency response.

What else is wrong? My Measurements? Beause they dont align with what you measured on your MiniDSP Rig or because I dont have thousands of posts here?

I think i elaborated enough on what rig im using to measure this results, if you think these results are not valid, then i think you should also doubt the results you´re getting from the MiniDSP Ears.

I dont think i did any mistakes measuring the headphones, all the measurments correlate with what i hear when i wear the headphones. And if I did something wrong, please tell me, im also just a guy who tries to learn about headphones and want to share what i measure.

There's things that I think are suspicious & don't add up, just like I mentioned, it's my prerogative to have an opinion on what I think it authentic & what is not......if you like hang around on ASR and get involved & do some other posts in some other areas/threads, like I said there's too much that doesn't add up; I'm sorry if it's harsh, but I can't help my intuitions and I'm entitled to make my own conclusions.

 

[solderdude]

The 6xx isn’t exactly the same as 650s?

I red that it was the same, don’t remember where

Different (simpler) paint job and cable and large single production runs, distribution to only one warehouse etc. made it possible for Sennheiser to lower manufacturing costs for Drop.
The measured differences between some pairs here and there fall within production tolerances.
There is quite a difference between HD650s over the years.
Sometimes due to (silent) changes in materials, production tolerances (part of this is solved by matching drivers in the factory), pad wear etc.

 

[kokoboko]

Hello, do you know of fake apple dongles ? Asking because I found US version in EU and I am wondering. I ask a picture from the seller, price is 12 euro. What do you think, it is not much, but could it be fake ?

 

[Robbo99999]

Hello, do you know of fake apple dongles ? Asking because I found US version in EU and I am wondering. I ask a picture from the seller, price is 12 euro. What do you think, it is not much, but could it be fake ?

I don't know how best to spot fakes. But, if you wanted to get the EU version I find it is plenty powerful enough for my HD560s even with like I think around -6dB negative preamp, but I use it with my Android phone and Neutron Player software - it's the Neutron Player software that takes full control of the dongle & unlocks it's max voltage because otherwise apple dongles only hit their max voltage with apple devices (IIRC). The EU one is max 1V (I've just read), but I run it at way less than 50 out of 100 (volume level) in Neutron Player with it. If you want to know about fakes and how to spot a genuine US Apple Dongle if I was you I'd post over in the Apple Dongle thread & ask that question:

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

EDIT: re the max voltage you can achieve on EU dongle without Apple I'm a bit shaky, go ask Static V3 at that thread above. I'm not 100% sure if Neutron Player can unlock the full 1V of the EU dongle, I think it can but not sure.

 

[Another_Moon]

There's things that I think are suspicious & don't add up, just like I mentioned, it's my prerogative to have an opinion on what I think it authentic & what is not......if you like hang around on ASR and get involved & do some other posts in some other areas/threads, like I said there's too much that doesn't add up; I'm sorry if it's harsh, but I can't help my intuitions and I'm entitled to make my own conclusions.

I suppose you consider yourself a Great Doctor of Audio Science, and with your holy intuition you identify pseudoscientists, "lol")) But in reality there are not many of these on the forum, and even if you don’t like something, and at the same time you don’t know what, I think it’s probably more ethical to remain silent)

 

[Robbo99999]

I suppose you consider yourself a Great Doctor of Audio Science, and with your holy intuition you identify pseudoscientists, "lol")) But in reality there are not many of these on the forum, and even if you don’t like something, and at the same time you don’t know what, I think it’s probably more ethical to remain silent)

No, I don't, I just know about the relationship between pad softness & frequency response, particularly on the HD560s, and I have a lot of forum participation/use experience both here on ASR & previously on a now defunct computer forum, so I think I'm quite good at smelling out inauthentic posts/information. There was just too much that didn't add up when taking everything into account. (It's not just because it contradicts "our" findings (& logic), it's a balance of things after taking everything into consideration.). I think I should be able to put my judgement/assessment across.

 

[solderdude]

HD560S (my 8th) on the way ... (>2022 model).
Wondering how that one measures/sounds.
So far there seems to be an audible production spread between bright and darker sounding.

 

[jurgu]

No, I don't, I just know about the relationship between pad softness & frequency response, particularly on the HD560s

The softest (2024 units) pads, which sound and measure the brightest, compress the most, nearly making my ears touch the driver when I wear them. They are more uncomfortable for me than the 2021 pads, whichs keep the drivers further away from my ears. The 572287 replacement pads actually are not that comfortable for me either, they are too firm (especially combined with the clamping force of the HD560s) and also they change the sound in a way that i really dont like.

That doesn´t mean that the change in sound is caused by the firmness of the pads , it could also just be the materials which are used, etc, its just something i noticed and thats why i mentioned it.

Another question is if change in sound between 2021 pads and 2024 pads are just caused by padwear of the 2021 pads. If you look at measurments of other headphones between worn and new pads (DT990 fresh pads, , DT990 worn pads) reduced treble is something that can happen by padwear. Thats why i added the pictures, while i know that the 2021 units pads have been worn a lot more than the new units pads, they just dont look and feel that much worn to cause such a change in response. Idk how worn a headphones pad has to be to change that much in frequency response.

I think I'm quite good at smelling out inauthentic posts/information. There was just too much that didn't add up when taking everything into account.

So your assuming im either trying to deceive people here, that im not knowing how to use my measurment equipment or that its not working properly. None of that is the case. Im just posting what I find. If you see mistakes that i have made then just tell me what im doing wrong, so I can fix it for the future.

Btw i did some digging in the Discord Servers im active in, it took a bit to find them, but here are some measurments of old vs new HD560s from other people:

This one is from GadgetryTech. His new unit also has reduced bass and a bit more treble.

This one is from FFCuties. Here the new pad have reduced treble.


I have also seen a measurment of somebody that struggled to find replacement pads that measure like the "original" ones, but only got a similiar response which i got with my 572287 replacement pads, but i couldnt find these measurements anymore (finding something in the sea of discord messages isnt that easy).

 

[Robbo99999]

The softest (2024 units) pads, which sound and measure the brightest, compress the most, nearly making my ears touch the driver when I wear them. They are more uncomfortable for me than the 2021 pads, whichs keep the drivers further away from my ears. The 572287 replacement pads actually are not that comfortable for me either, they are too firm (especially combined with the clamping force of the HD560s) and also they change the sound in a way that i really dont like.

That doesn´t mean that the change in sound is caused by the firmness of the pads , it could also just be the materials which are used, etc, its just something i noticed and thats why i mentioned it.

Another question is if change in sound between 2021 pads and 2024 pads are just caused by padwear of the 2021 pads. If you look at measurments of other headphones between worn and new pads (DT990 fresh pads, , DT990 worn pads) reduced treble is something that can happen by padwear. Thats why i added the pictures, while i know that the 2021 units pads have been worn a lot more than the new units pads, they just dont look and feel that much worn to cause such a change in response. Idk how worn a headphones pad has to be to change that much in frequency response.


So your assuming im either trying to deceive people here, that im not knowing how to use my measurment equipment or that its not working properly. None of that is the case. Im just posting what I find. If you see mistakes that i have made then just tell me what im doing wrong, so I can fix it for the future.

Btw i did some digging in the Discord Servers im active in, it took a bit to find them, but here are some measurments of old vs new HD560s from other people:

View attachment 380879
This one is from GadgetryTech. His new unit also has reduced bass and a bit more treble.

View attachment 380880
This one is from FFCuties. Here the new pad have reduced treble.


I have also seen a measurment of somebody that struggled to find replacement pads that measure like the "original" ones, but only got a similiar response which i got with my 572287 replacement pads, but i couldnt find these measurements anymore (finding something in the sea of discord messages isnt that easy).

(Yes, I also took into consideration your 2021 pads could be worn). Sorry, there's no further discussion to be had with regards to what I think of your measurements, as you can see I don't trust them for logical & also intuitive reasons (more specifics of which I've previously mentioned), so it's pointless trying to discuss it with me.

HD560S (my 8th) on the way ... (>2022 model).
Wondering how that one measures/sounds.
So far there seems to be an audible production spread between bright and darker sounding.

Yes, your measurements in particular show quite a large spread between the New Version units. My two units of New Version when averaged out were very similar though (the attached screenshot), albeit one driver was a bit off which is why I returned it as channel balance was bad (audibly so before I measured it). Are all your units brand new or already used?

 

[solderdude]

All used.