New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

[Robbo99999]

All used.

That throws a bit of a spanner in the works in terms of reliability due to pad wear when viewed without further qualification, because every single one of my measurements I've shown on here for all my HD560s have been with new fresh pads (apart from my Unit 1 Old Version, but I've measured x5 units of HD560s so I suppose I can be forgiven). I could remeasure my used HD560s to see how much they've changed, albeit I've been wearing my K702 / HD560s / HD800 about equally recently so it's hard to determine how many hours placed on each one. It's just over half a year ago I bought my latest HD560s, and essentially that's the one that I've been using (rather than my other Old Version HD560s). Do you know how old or how many hours listening your various measured HD560s have experienced?

Just for brevity here is the unit to unit variation of my Old Version HD560s, x3 units - you almost can't see that there's 3 seperate lines, lol - the matching from 20Hz all the way to 20kHz is just insane between those 3 units:

and unit to unit variation of the x2 New Version HD560s I've measured (which I showed earlier, but why not have it all in one post):

For me it's been crazy how good the unit to unit variation has been between the various x5 units of HD560s I've measured, albeit of course I've seperated New Version from Old Version because there's a major trend variation between the two versions. But either way, the grouping is very close when viewing the two groups seperately, and indeed the biggest outlier is my Unit #1 Old Version which is the only unit I measured which had used pads (go figure), albeit it wasn't miles away (it's the red line in the first graph). So you can see why I'm sceptical about unit to unit variation claims with the HD560s . Particularly with the Old Version HD560s I bought those 3 units over the space of like two years & from different retailers. (EDIT: but it would be silly of me to think the HD560s is totally immune to unit to unit variation). The two New Version units were bought almost back to back from Amazon, and channel balance issues for one of those drivers in one unit so even my data is showing slightly less reliability perhaps in New Version, but it averaged out in the above graph nicely (when averaging left & right channels which is what all these graphs are).

 

[solderdude]

I have now measured 5 of these >2022 HD560S (all second hand) which can give some insight in production spread.

 

[zonk]

That's what oratory said recently after testing in total 18 units of the HD560S. A user was asking whether the measurements and eq settings are for the new version?
Sennheiser-HD560S

 

[Robbo99999]

I have now measured 5 of these >2022 HD560S (all second hand) which can give some insight in production spread.

It would probably be easier to see the differences if you averaged out left & right driver to one line per headphone, and then displayed all 5 headphones on one graph. I'm not a fan of those moving graphs as you can't easily nor quickly compare the actual differences.

That's what oratory said recently after testing in total 18 units of the HD560S. A user was asking whether the measurements and eq settings are for the new version?
Sennheiser-HD560S

Solderdude is not saying that there is no trend for the New Version HD560s, he's just showing the unit to unit variation. I think it's insane to think that there is no trend with the New Version headphone when it's clearly using softer pads, which solderdude found to be I think the biggest factor for a change in the frequency response of the HD560s when comparing the physical component differences between Old & New Version HD560s.

 

[solderdude]

18 drivers in one plot... not smoothed 10Hz -30kHz

18 drivers in one plot, acoustic smoothing and 20Hz-20kHz

 

[Robbo99999]

18 drivers in one plot... not smoothed 10Hz -30kHz
View attachment 384458

18 drivers in one plot, acoustic smoothing and 20Hz-20kHz
View attachment 384457

You've measured x5 New Version units which equals 10 drivers, not 18. Also you've zoomed in your y-axis to cover a span of only 20dB which makes it look a lot worse (which you've changed from your other extreme example of 70dB spanned over the y-axis) . Why don't you do 50dB span on the y-axis like Amir's graphs here, and why don't you show just New Version drivers in one graph & Old Version Drivers in another graph, and then perhaps one more graph showing average of New Version drivers together with Average of Old Version drivers. At the moment it's not useful information. Sorry, I'm just a bit frustrated with how you're doing this. Also I'm thinking it would be better to align each driver or headphone (avg of both drivers) at say 400Hz for all your comparisons because otherwise I don't think it's easy to compare, and those responses you've done aren't aligned at any given point currently, which makes deviation look even worse as well as making it less easy to see differences. At the moment I think this is very misleading information in the way you've chosen to display the information - which in addition is probably all the x18 drivers of Old Version & New Version together anyway. You're not being clear with what you're showing, poor show....I am annoyed, you're bloody smarter than that, I'm beginning to think you've done it so poorly on purpose to try to wind me up a bit given you know my views on this headphone. I am in a bad mood too though, so I apologise for my shortness, but this is rubbish. Poor show, I wouldn't be so annoyed if I didn't think you really knew how to show the information in a non-misleading way, but given I think you do know then I'm annoyed because I'm pretty sure you're just trying to wind me up because you know my viewpoint on this topic.

 

[solderdude]

Those are all HD560S (old and new) I measured, 9 in total, 4 older ones (one of them new and 3 2nd hand) and 5 new ones.

As can easily be seen at 100Hz there is a 2dB delta, lets call it +/-1dB.
For the treble there is a delta of approx. 5dB and 2 drivers are clearly out of the tolerance band and too dark.
Those are the first one I sampled and seems to be an outlier.
The newer ones have slightly lower treble on average.
The alternating plot shows that while there is product variance there still is decent L-R matching being done.
What I haven't explored is whether the delta is caused by the drivers or pads.

I zoomed in because you wanted to see the Delta between them and this shows exactly that.

I made this comparison not to wind you up but give a data point of the Delta.
The previous alternating plots are all new versions of course.

What surprises me is your reaction as some of this you already figured out.

And ... the scale is just so there is a 0.5dB/div shown instead of my usual 5dB/div and Amir's 2.5dB/div. This way you can actually tell traces apart. That would not have been the case as clearly as it is now.

At your special request and to un-annoy a bit ... aligned at 400Hz instead of 'average mids level between 500Hz and 1kHz.

 

[Robbo99999]

Those are all HD560S (old and new) I measured, 9 in total, 4 older ones (one of them new and 3 2nd hand) and 5 new ones.

As can easily be seen at 100Hz there is a 2dB delta, lets call it +/-1dB.
For the treble there is a delta of approx. 5dB and 2 drivers are clearly out of the tolerance band and too dark.
Those are the first one I sampled and seems to be an outlier.
The newer ones have slightly lower treble on average.
The alternating plot shows that while there is product variance there still is decent L-R matching being done.
What I haven't explored is whether the delta is caused by the drivers or pads.

I zoomed in because you wanted to see the Delta between them and this shows exactly that.

I made this comparison not to wind you up but give a data point of the Delta.
The previous alternating plots are all new versions of course.

What surprises me is your reaction as some of this you already figured out.

And ... the scale is just so there is a 0.5dB/div shown instead of my usual 5dB/div and Amir's 2.5dB/div. This way you can actually tell traces apart. That would not have been the case as clearly as it is now.

At your special request and to un-annoy a bit ... aligned at 400Hz instead of 'average mids level between 500Hz and 1kHz.
View attachment 384520

Well I apologise for my bad tempered reaction yesterday, I was in a bad & kinda strange mood before I even logged in. Thanks for aligning them at 400Hz, that is better. I still think the 20dB range on the y-axis is misleading, why not use the standard 50dB range on the y-axis, could you do it when using the 50dB? The other problem is we can't see which of those lines are New Version & Old Version - for instance are all the lower treble lines New Version - could you not do a graph showing the average of New Version vs the average of Old Version (so just two lines on that graph). I mean I agree that we're not seeing two distinct groupings in your graph here, but it's possible & I think likely that there is still a trend for New Version to be a darker headphone, hence my request to show average of New Version & average Old Version. It would also be interesting to see another two graphs, one with just New Version & one with just Old Version along with average trend lines for each one - this way you get a feel for what the unit to unit variation is like within Old Version & also within New Version. I mean I know this is all your work so I can't tell you what to do, but I think what I'm describing is useful ways of displaying the information.

(and yes good that you're displaying just 20Hz-20000Hz in that graph rather than up to 30000Hz)

 

[solderdude]

One of the decisions that has to be made (when averaging) is whether or not the outlier is to be removed.
When this one is considered a dud the delta between new and old will be smaller than when it is included.
So below averaged with and without what I assume are outliers. Of course these exist and there may be more of those given the reviews out there.
Probably best to compare orange and green.

On the plots one can see the delta more clearly and to show that 0.5dB/div is the best tool for this regardless of how things usually are displayed.

orange = 4x old (<2022) HD560S not smoothed and averaged over 8 drivers.
blue = 4x new (>2022) w/o outliers not smoothed and averaged over 7 drivers.
green = 5x new (>2022) incl. outliers, not smoothed and averaged over 10 drivers.

aligned at 400Hz

What can be observes is that on average bass response on the newer models is slightly higher and slightly better extended than pre-2022 versions.
What can be observed is that on average response above 1kHz on the newer models is audible less elevated.

For those that are not aware...
The <2022 version has a 3 meter cable with 6.3mm(1/4) plug + a short converter cable to 3.5mm(1/8).
The >2022 version has a 1.8 meter cable with 3.5(1/8) connector with screw-on 6.3mm(1/4) adapter.

 

[Robbo99999]

One of the decisions that has to be made (when averaging) is whether or not the outlier is to be removed.
When this one is considered a dud the delta between new and old will be smaller than when it is included.
So below averaged with and without what I assume are outliers. Of course these exist and there may be more of those given the reviews out there.
Probably best to compare orange and green.

On the plots one can see the delta more clearly and to show that 0.5dB/div is the best tool for this regardless of how things usually are displayed.

orange = 4x old (<2022) HD560S not smoothed and averaged over 8 drivers.
blue = 4x new (>2022) w/o outliers not smoothed and averaged over 7 drivers.
green = 5x new (>2022) incl. outliers, not smoothed and averaged over 10 drivers.

aligned at 400Hz

View attachment 384582


What can be observes is that on average bass response on the newer models is slightly higher and slightly better extended than pre-2022 versions.
What can be observed is that on average response above 1kHz on the newer models is audible less elevated.

For those that are not aware...
The <2022 version has a 3 meter cable with 6.3mm(1/4) plug + a short converter cable to 3.5mm(1/8).
The >2022 version has a 1.8 meter cable with 3.5(1/8) connector with screw-on 6.3mm(1/4) adapter.

I would say your green line matches up closer with my own comparison between x3 units of Old Version & x2 units of New Version. Mine is at following post and is essentially showing New Version to be same as High Shelf (Q0.71) -2.1dB difference above 1200Hz:

New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

I should have said 'I perceived distortion', which could mean snything, or nothing. Thanks for taking measurements. Do you still have the "new version" HD560s? If you're a Harman fan you could reverse engineer the measured changes that solderdude has noted. In other words, you'd use an...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I suppose eventhough we see similarities in the averages between your measurements & my measurements, your measurements do indeed show a lot more unit to unit variation than my in total 5 measured headphones. Some of that is understandable because you're measuring 2nd hand units with unknown amounts of pad wear whereas all my measurements are basically brand new headphones (ie fresh pads), so your measurements kind of have to show more variation than mine on that basis alone. It's still good though, your information is showing an average trend difference between New Version & Old Version, just like my data as well, so it's good to have us both agree on the trend differences. Just from my point of view I have a lot more faith in HD560s unit to unit variation being low vs what your data is showing, but that's a bit of a different topic than trend differences between Old Version & New Version.

 

[Another_Moon]

Maybe offtopic, but has anyone touched the diffuser of our headphones directly? I recently disassembled my Sony MDR-ZX310 to open the driver (some kind of lead wire in the driver fell off, cannot be repaired), and I was surprised how soft the diffuser is, not far from the cellophane bag, I wonder how much stiffer the Sennheiser speaker is (and it is I think it should be much stiffer)

 

[AdamG]

Maybe offtopic, but has anyone touched the diffuser of our headphones directly? I recently disassembled my Sony MDR-ZX310 to open the driver (some kind of lead wire in the driver fell off, cannot be repaired), and I was surprised how soft the diffuser is, not far from the cellophane bag, I wonder how much stiffer the Sennheiser speaker is (and it is I think it should be much stiffer)

This is far off topic. You would be better served by starting a new thread and ask for input on this question there.

 

[lowsag41]

Hi everyone this is my first post here so forgive me if I break any rule. Ok so last Friday I caught the 560s for 144$ sale on amazon, I was thrilled because I've always seen them for 220$, so applied more coupons and got them for 112.99$, could have even get it for 106$. Anyway, on amazon it was written that it has the 3m cable which made me relived that I'll be getting the old and better version. I received it today and it turns out to be the new version with 1.8m cable. I tried to return or refund on amazon and they told that I have to ship it back and pay for the shipping and they will give me back a certain amount, the problem is I don't wanna deal with this headache, and the discount is already gone I don't think it will come back anytime soon. So, is it a big deal? This is my first open back professional headset I had a HyperX revolver S and I only noticed drums sounded more sharp and annoying in it compared to the HD560s, other than that I didn't notice anything and wasn't impressed. So, can I enhance the sound with some EQ to make it sound like the old one? I always heard that you can hear more details with a good headset but I didn't.

 

[LunaTempesta]

Are you using your headphones 3.5mm input from the PC or an actual amp/dac combi?
I'm sure the Sennheisers will benefit from that a lot more if you aren't using any.

 

[solderdude]

New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

A new version of Sennheiser HD 560S has arrived. The big question is, does it sound (or measure) differently ? In a post on Reddit, a user has posted the following:

www.audiosciencereview.com

no need to make a new thread

 

[lowsag41]

Are you using your headphones 3.5mm input from the PC or an actual amp/dac combi?
I'm sure the Sennheisers will benefit from that a lot more if you aren't using any.

Hi it's plugged in directly to the pc but I think the Mobo sound card is able to run 120ohms

 

[lowsag41]

I vastly prefer the newer one, but if it’s ‘detail’ you’re after then the original should be more your cup of tea as it is a noticeably brighter sounding headphone.
I haven’t heard your HyperX headset, but if you have been using it exclusively for a very long time, your brain is most likely hardwired to like that type of sound. With a little ‘brain burn in’ I’m sure the Sennheiser will sound better, but it’s never really ‘night and day differences’ with headphones once you pass a certain point, regardless of what many mainstream reviews seem to say.
I would suggest equalising in a bass shelf if you want a more impressive low end. Looking at a frequency response I found of the HyperX, it is noticeably more bassy vs the Sennie. If one is used to a certain amount of bass it can be difficult cutting down like this…and perhaps that could be the area where you feel you’re lacking details(?).

Anyhoo if you’re really set on getting the original HD560S, it still exists. It’s just called the HD400 Pro…which also is on sale from time to time. Speaking as one who has owned all of these iterations (on multiple occasions and having a/b’ed them) I’m comfortable in saying that the original HD560S is identical to the HD400 Pro, except for the looks
Best of luck going forth!

What do you like about them? and what do I expect from the old one "detail"? Im sorry Im new to this stuff and I really wanna know what am I getting into, like do you think it's worth it to return the current and maybe or maybe not get an old model(because of how inconsistent amazon is) for 50$+ more?

 

[lowsag41]

New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

A new version of Sennheiser HD 560S has arrived. The big question is, does it sound (or measure) differently ? In a post on Reddit, a user has posted the following:

www.audiosciencereview.com

no need to make a new thread

I saw your thread but all the technical talk made my head dizzy haha, and I wasn't asking about the performance of the two alone, I want to know if it's worth to return or not, and if not, can I reach the old one performance with some EQ or that's just not possible like it's asking to turn a 20$ headset to 1000$ one

 

[usern]

Just use EQ and don't return it. Cables are interchangeable and you can buy new cable if you need different length.

 

[solderdude]

I saw your thread but all the technical talk made my head dizzy haha, and I wasn't asking about the performance of the two alone, I want to know if it's worth to return or not, and if not, can I reach the old one performance with some EQ or that's just not possible like it's asking to turn a 20$ headset to 1000$ one

No need to return it.
The older ones are just a little bit brighter sounding which is easy to EQ.
The newer ones are not 'better' (when EQ'ed) just a little less bright when used without EQ.
Also the newer ones have a shorter cable but if you want that buy an aftermarket cable.