New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[audafreak]

From the perspective of the MA1, I have a stereo front with 2x KH750 and 2x KH310, and a second stereo system with 2x KH80. I use the secondary system as surrounds. I have both systems calibrated independently.
My interface is a RME UCX II. It comes with a great software called TotalMix FX. In Windows, it looks like this (4 mains + LFE):
View attachment 318364View attachment 318384

In TotalMix i can route LFE to front, this looks like this:
View attachment 318374

When listening to music in stereo, I get full advantage of my 2 subs in my stereo front.
When watching movies, the whole bass content from L+C+R+LFE comes from mains + subs, only surround content comes from the KH80, which is fine. I don´t need WASAPI or ASIO for this.

BTW i absolutely hate that whole LFE drama in mixes, especially surround music. You never know what amount of LFE is correct.
I practically never listen to surround content actually, because the bass never sounds correct. So i am probably not the best example.

I never use default Windows output.

Instead I use Jriver which automatically correctly mixes channels to 7.1 ASIO channels (0.1 only if it exists in input), channel order is stable for any input. Then I mix 7.1 into 4.0 (2 stereo pairs) in Totalmix FX. Jriver also provides windows device which converts output from other audio sw to its ASIO output. Some kind of bridge.
Before I used Foobar and had similar problems. I don't feel such problems with JRiver.
Before I tried also mch output via standard windows system and did not like it - more muddy. Jriver is clean.
Jriver plays both video up to UHD with HDR or DV, audio DTS MA, TrueHD, SACD iso, bluray, DVD, both PCM and DSD with avaiable format conversions, VST plugins.

Try it. And mch music is very nice sometimes, lot of nice mch masterings. Not all of course - this is life.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I never use default Windows output.

Instead I use Jriver which automatically correctly mixes channels to 7.1 ASIO channels (0.1 only if it exists in input), channel order is stable for any input. Then I mix 7.1 into 4.0 (2 stereo pairs) in Totalmix FX. Jriver also provides windows device which converts output from other audio sw to its ASIO output. Some kind of bridge.
Before I used Foobar and had similar problems. I don't feel such problems with JRiver.
Before I tried also mch output via standard windows system and did not like it - more muddy. Jriver is clean.
Jriver plays both video up to UHD with HDR or DV, audio DTS MA, TrueHD, SACD iso, bluray, DVD, both PCM and DSD with avaiable format conversions, VST plugins.

Try it. And mch music is very nice sometimes, lot of nice mch masterings. Not all of course - this is life.

I have jRiver, but hate the UI/UX. Never really understood how it is working, though. I tried it for upmixing stereo with a VST plugin. Worked, but did not like the sound. Also i use it to play one of my 2 music blu rays with surround mix...
I am sure it is possible to use jRiver and maybe configure it to work well, but i lost patience too early.

The windows default is important, because most surround content i watch is from Netflix or Disney+.

Never been really happy with the surround sound in general, so i maybe try watching something in surround every 2-3 months or so. Not really worth the effort for me. Maybe i'll give it another shot if MA1 supports my KH310 multichannel config some day (i don't expect it, but who knows). Or when i change my KH310 to newer DSP models some day.

 

[audafreak]

I have jRiver, but hate the UI/UX. Never really understood how it is working, though. I tried it for upmixing stereo with a VST plugin. Worked, but did not like the sound. Also i use it to play one of my 2 music blu rays with surround mix...
I am sure it is possible to use jRiver and maybe configure it to work well, but i lost patience too early.

The windows default is important, because most surround content i watch is from Netflix or Disney+.

Never been really happy with the surround sound in general, so i maybe try watching something in surround every 2-3 months or so. Not really worth the effort for me. Maybe i'll give it another shot if MA1 supports my KH310 multichannel config some day (i don't expect it, but who knows). Or when i change my KH310 to newer DSP models some day.

Maybe your bad experience is because of choosing not good material. Netflix serials are often almost mono, everything in center, almost no surround.
Try latest surround mixes of Brothers in Arms, Tubular Bells, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here and many others.

But yes, Jriver interface is a bit chaotic, never used theatre mode. Only the basic one. File browser for video, library for audio. Not interested in many options.

 

[audafreak]

MCH demo in Australia

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Interesting find by @fabien.56 here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-neumann-monitors.33663/page-2#post-1743889

 

[Ron78]

seriously these 4 constellations , no 4.0 or 5.0 or 5.1 or 7.1

 

[DJBonoBobo]

seriously these 4 constellations , no 4.0 or 5.0 or 5.1 or 7.1

• "For Quad, 5.1, 7.1, 5.1.4 and 7.1.4 setups with up to 4 subwoofers"

Multichannel Extension for MA 1

Precision alignment for truly immersive sound that translates reliably to all playback systems

www.neumann.com

The video shows 1.8 beta, newest version is 2.0.

 

[jhaider]

I’m curious to know how it does multisub. Admittedly $6k or so for 4 KH 750s seems really expensive - that’s not too far off from the cost of an HTP-1 with DLBC and 4 subs of similar or greater extension/headroom from the usual suspects - but if you’re in the ecosystem it may be worth considering.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I’m curious to know how it does multisub. Admittedly $6k or so for 4 KH 750s seems really expensive - that’s not too far off from the cost of an HTP-1 with DLBC and 4 subs of similar or greater extension/headroom from the usual suspects - but if you’re in the ecosystem it may be worth considering.

I made a comparison between MA1 and DLBC, but 2 subs only:

Neumann MA1 vs. Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) - Dual KH750 subs

Hello, i have a dual sub Neumann system (2x KH310, 2x KH750 DSP). I use the MA1 microphone and software for room EQ. I also own a Dirac Live license (PC standalone) that i have not used for a long time. Because Dirac released DLBC, i decided to get the trial version and compare the results of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jhaider]

I made a comparison between MA1 and DLBC, but 2 subs only:

Neumann MA1 vs. Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) - Dual KH750 subs

Hello, i have a dual sub Neumann system (2x KH310, 2x KH750 DSP). I use the MA1 microphone and software for room EQ. I also own a Dirac Live license (PC standalone) that i have not used for a long time. Because Dirac released DLBC, i decided to get the trial version and compare the results of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks for refloating - I thought multisub was a new thing for the extension. I guess it adds >2?

Likely Neumann is doing more than a crude “match and ping” - I also bet the ULF rolloff has to do with what they know of the subs’ capabilities. There are benefits to a closed system.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I guess it adds >2?

Looks like it, but technically they don´t mention stereo systems with "up to 4 subs". We´ll see.

 

[Ron78]

• "For Quad, 5.1, 7.1, 5.1.4 and 7.1.4 setups with up to 4 subwoofers"

Multichannel Extension for MA 1

Precision alignment for truly immersive sound that translates reliably to all playback systems

www.neumann.com

The video shows 1.8 beta, newest version is 2.0.

Verstehe , sorry , understand sorry.

 

[custom]

Yesterday I updated the firmware of my subs to version 1.2.4. Today I tried to connect to them remotely via the Nuemann Control App via iPad running iOS 17.0.3. The program finds subwoofers on the network, but cannot select them. When you click on the line with the name of the subwoofer, an orange rectangle on the right is highlighted, but the checkbox itself is not activated. On the previous firmware everything worked fine. Does anyone know how to fix this?

Neumann changed some commands in the communication protocol for the KH 750 with firmware 1.2.4. This affects the level command, for example. I think the app will stop working as long as there is no updated iOS app.

 

[audafreak]

Neumann changed some commands in the communication protocol for the KH 750 with firmware 1.2.4. This affects the level command, for example. I think the app will stop working as long as there is no updated iOS app.

So may be after FW update we also cannot go back to older MA1 versions which do this differently in case v 2.0 will not work correctly.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

So may be after FW update we also cannot go back to older MA1 versions which do this differently in case v 2.0 will not work correctly.

I tried going back to 1.6.3. The KH750s with new firmware are found, but the old setup/alignments does not work. Not sure if a new alignment would work, did not try so far.
At the moment nothing works for me as long as i don't recalibrate. So if you don't plan doing so i do not recommend the update at the moment.

 

[audafreak]

I tried going back to 1.6.3. The KH750s with new firmware are found, but the old setup/alignments does not work. Not sure if a new alignment would work, did not try so far.
At the moment nothing works for me as long as i don't recalibrate. So if you don't plan doing so i do not recommend the update at the moment.

I was in this situation also several times. I know this very well. With Neumann we have to be prepared for anything. Like a soldier in the trenches watching the enemy.

 

[custom]

I tried going back to 1.6.3. The KH750s with new firmware are found, but the old setup/alignments does not work. Not sure if a new alignment would work, did not try so far.
At the moment nothing works for me as long as i don't recalibrate. So if you don't plan doing so i do not recommend the update at the moment.

There's a small firmware utility called "fw-update" included in the MA 1 installation folder. Maybe it's possible to downgrade the firmware with this tool.

 

[AudioBoy]

There's a small firmware utility called "fw-update" included in the MA 1 installation folder. Maybe it's possible to downgrade the firmware with this tool.

This is cool, but is there a link to download the binary file of the previous firmware? We may need some kind of programmator to extract the old firmware file from the subwoofer that has not yet been updated.

 

[custom]

This is cool, but is there a link to download the binary file of the previous firmware? We may need some kind of programmator to extract the old firmware file from the subwoofer that has not yet been updated.

The old firmware is included in the "Binaries" folder of an old (before Version 2) MA 1 installation.

 

[audafreak]

The old firmware is included in the "Binaries" folder of an old (before Version 2) MA 1 installation.

Question is if there is safe to downgrade. Some gear does not allow this. Once I downgraded BIOS on my PC because manufacturer removed support for my RAM chips and result was bad - I could not boot.