New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[artishard116]

Trying to trouble shoot a small issue, in case anyone can help. I'm running two kh750/310's from an RME ADI 2/4 pro. When I use the xlr outs (with Y-splitters) the output level from the speakers is what I would call 'normal', something like -40db normal listening volume. When I switch to the spdif outputs of the RME and the digital inputs of the 750s, the signal is so loud, I have to turn the volume down to something like -80db to get the same level. The output level indicators on the screen of the rme barely even register. Not sure if the issue is in the 750s/ma-1 calibration, or if there's a setting I'm missing in the RME. Only solution I've found is to turn the output level way down to 60 or 70 in the ma-1 software.

 

[J-B]

Is the new KH 120 II already supported by the MA-1 software?
It's not yet in the supported list on the MA-1 product page (Neumann website).

I just contacted Neumann, just to be sure. We'll see what they'll say.

update: MA 1 already supports the new KH 120 II, so good news.

 

[twntyfive2life]

I just contacted Neumann, just to be sure. We'll see what they'll say.

update: MA 1 already supports the new KH 120 II, so good news.

I cannot for the life of me get MA-1 to recognize my KH-120II pair. Occasionally it'll show one of them, but without the serial number. This is on the latest MA-1 software for Mac. Windows won't recognize them at all, not even occasionally. Awful experience so far for how expensive this setup is.

 

[badboygolf16v]

Yeah MA 1 is definitely not the slickest solution.

Networking discovery uses mDNS I believe so perhaps there is a Multicast configuration issue with your network?

I used an Android mDNS app to do a bit of troubleshooting on my KH 80 back in the days when MA 1 was REALLY bad.

 

[RickNRoll]

I was thinking of buying Neuman desktop setup for about the same price as Genelec. The MA-1 put me off. I have spent a lifetime wresting with buggy software and have no interest in doing it when I don't need to.

 

[CMB]

Exactly my fears, which made me decide for Genelec and GLM. This is actually a pity considering how excellent the Neumann speakers are. I was considering Neumann or Dutch and Dutch alternatively. I am so glad I went with GLM. Would consider KH120ii or KH150 if their DSP software would be at the same level than GLM.

 

[twntyfive2life]

I was thinking of buying Neuman desktop setup for about the same price as Genelec. The MA-1 put me off. I have spent a lifetime wresting with buggy software and have no interest in doing it when I don't need to.

I almost went with the the 8330As and regret not going that route now. This pair of Neumanns is probably going to be returned. I've already wasted hours trying to get this set up. It sucks because they do sound damn good, even without any room correction.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Has Neumann even commented on whether the KH120II is supported by the MA1 software with version 1.6.2? There has been no update since the release of the 120II, but I assume that it will not take for ever for them to release a new version.

 

[twntyfive2life]

Has Neumann even commented on whether the KH120II is supported by the MA1 software with version 1.6.2? There has been no update since the release of the 120II, but I assume that it will not take for ever for them to release a new version.

I submitted a contact request on their site yesterday so we'll see what they say, but the KH120IIs are specifically advertised as being compatible with MA-1.

edit: I should also specify that from my MBP, MA-1 can consistently find one of the monitors, and it's labelled correctly as a KH120II. It lights up when I click the Identity button, too. I've switched cables, have had them connected directly to my router and also tried with switch that was connected to the MBP with an Apple USB-Ethernet adapter (no router involved). On my Windows 10 desktop, it consistently finds no monitors, regardless of the connection type.


edit again: lol the Identify will have one monitor blinking, and then I'll refresh and click Identify and the other monitor will blink, so it can find both of them on the network but it never lists both of them at the same time in MA-1.

one more edit: khtool.py (https://github.com/schwinn/khtool) actually finds both of them on the network with the labels Neumann KH 120 II- and Neumann KH 120 II--1. Unfortunately trying to do a query or any other command besides scans is giving me an 'OSError: [Errno 65] No route to host.'

edit I swear I'm done for today: I got khtool to give me this much information:
{"device":{"name":"Neumann KH 120 II"}} {"device":{"identity":{"vendor":"Georg Neumann GmbH"}}} {"device":{"identity":{"product":"KH 120 II"}}} {"device":{"identity":{"serial":""}}} {"device":{"identity":{"version":"1_0_0"}}} {"device":{"standby":{"enabled":true}}} {"device":{"standby":{"auto_standby_time":90}}} {"device":{"standby":{"level":-65}}} {"ui":{"logo":{"brightness":100}}} {"audio":{"out":{"level":100.0}}} {"audio":{"out":{"dimm":0.0}}} {"audio":{"out":{"mute":false}}} {"audio":{"out":{"delay":0}}} {"audio":{"out":{"solo":false}}}

 

[badboygolf16v]

It's a real shame that Neumann haven't been able to sort out the MA 1 software. They should have invested more initially and brought out a decent product from the beginning.

 

[custom]

I submitted a contact request on their site yesterday so we'll see what they say, but the KH120IIs are specifically advertised as being compatible with MA-1.

edit: I should also specify that from my MBP, MA-1 can consistently find one of the monitors, and it's labelled correctly as a KH120II. It lights up when I click the Identity button, too. I've switched cables, have had them connected directly to my router and also tried with switch that was connected to the MBP with an Apple USB-Ethernet adapter (no router involved). On my Windows 10 desktop, it consistently finds no monitors, regardless of the connection type.


edit again: lol the Identify will have one monitor blinking, and then I'll refresh and click Identify and the other monitor will blink, so it can find both of them on the network but it never lists both of them at the same time in MA-1.

one more edit: khtool.py (https://github.com/schwinn/khtool) actually finds both of them on the network with the labels Neumann KH 120 II- and Neumann KH 120 II--1. Unfortunately trying to do a query or any other command besides scans is giving me an 'OSError: [Errno 65] No route to host.'

edit I swear I'm done for today: I got khtool to give me this much information:
{"device":{"name":"Neumann KH 120 II"}} {"device":{"identity":{"vendor":"Georg Neumann GmbH"}}} {"device":{"identity":{"product":"KH 120 II"}}} {"device":{"identity":{"serial":""}}} {"device":{"identity":{"version":"1_0_0"}}} {"device":{"standby":{"enabled":true}}} {"device":{"standby":{"auto_standby_time":90}}} {"device":{"standby":{"level":-65}}} {"ui":{"logo":{"brightness":100}}} {"audio":{"out":{"level":100.0}}} {"audio":{"out":{"dimm":0.0}}} {"audio":{"out":{"mute":false}}} {"audio":{"out":{"delay":0}}} {"audio":{"out":{"solo":false}}}

Thanks for providing the KH 120 II output. I will post a updated khtool version soon.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Yeah. Seems a pity. Network discovery seems hit and miss. For me it worked perfectly from the start (KH80, 750) but I couldn’t tell you why nor why it doesn’t work for others. (All my three speakers are connected to one network switch, which in turn is connected to my network)

Should definitely be more robust as this creates some unnecessary bad rep for Neumann even if it were to work for the majority. The ones having problems are understandably vocal about it.

 

[twntyfive2life]

Thanks for providing the KH 120 II output. I will post a updated khtool version soon.

Thanks for the tool! It's interesting that it can't find a serial number on either of the monitors; I wonder if this is also breaking MA-1. MA-1 might be trying to index them based on the serial number and when it can't find it it's just listing the first monitor it finds. Might be why Identify will light up one of them and then after a refresh light up the other. Either way not a good look for Neumann.

 

[Syntactic]

Does anyone know why I would see dramatic comb filtering with the Neumann MA-1 room correction applied? No changes to monitors or mic between these two measurements, just toggling the correction checkbox on and off.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Does anyone know why I would see dramatic comb filtering with the Neumann MA-1 room correction applied? No changes to monitors or mic between these two measurements, just toggling the correction checkbox on and off.

I don't know, but it doesn't look right. Something went wrong there. Are you sure both measurements were performed the same way? Not maybe only one channel in the first and both channels together in the other case?
I would also check how it looks after saving/applying and then closing the app.

Edit: I think, if you measured both channels together in both cases, this may be actually plausible. Just measure again, but only 1 channel at once. Inter-channel cancellations are normal and MA1 ist compensating delay and phase.

 

[custom]

Thanks for the tool! It's interesting that it can't find a serial number on either of the monitors; I wonder if this is also breaking MA-1. MA-1 might be trying to index them based on the serial number and when it can't find it it's just listing the first monitor it finds. Might be why Identify will light up one of them and then after a refresh light up the other. Either way not a good look for Neumann.

I also find the missing serial number strange, but I have no idea if the MA 1 problem is related. The current MA 1 version 1.6.2 is from November 2022 and support for the KH 120 II is not listed in the release notes. Support for the KH 150 was added in version 1.5.0 and was listed in the release notes.

 

[twntyfive2life]

I also find the missing serial number strange, but I have no idea if the MA 1 problem is related. The current MA 1 version 1.6.2 is from November 2022 and support for the KH 120 II is not listed in the release notes. Support for the KH 150 was added in version 1.5.0 and was listed in the release notes.

For sure, but one shouldn't have to check the release notes before buying when they explicitly advertise the compatibility on both the KH120 II and MA-1 product pages on their site. I'll give Neumann until the end of the week to respond to my inquiry that I submitted over the weekend before I send 'em back and go with the Genelecs.

 

[Grooveteer]

Hello people,

I have a set KH120's and just purchased a KH750 sub + MA1. Still waiting on some parts as I want to make some new cables for them.

I've been doing some homework on the calibration procedure, and have a question. My interface in/outs are line level only, so I can't connect the MA1 directly.
Scenario would be: MA1 into outboard micpre (P48 engaged), into interface. The outputs of the interface go to my monitor controller, then to the KH750.

Quite a lot of variables. Would this work, or would it be better to buy something like a Scarlet Solo just for calibration? (connecting MA1 and KH750 directly to the Solo and rewire after calibration)

 

[unpluggged]

Would this work

It should. MA 1 only needs the audio device that outputs calibration signals to be the same as the device the mic is connected to.

 

[Grooveteer]

It should. MA 1 only needs the audio device that outputs calibration signals to be the same as the device the mic is connected to.

Good! Many thanks.