New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[HarmonicTHD]

Well, I never noticed any audible difference between sending native 44kHz to the KH 750 or doing a 48 kHz conversion 1st. But I did no systematic A/B tests so far. For me, such a test did not seem worth the effort. Other influences are for sure far more important (treated room, loud speakers, correct callibration, etc.)

Same here. I actually even send currently analog. Can’t hear a difference. Tin Eared? and I am too busy otherwise to bother with elaborate blind testing (I did level matched at the time but no statistically relevant sample size).

 

[artishard116]

Can anyone clarify for me, in a dual 750 sub setup, where the source only has one spdif output, is it possible to run the signal to sub 1 and the connect the digital output of sub 1 to the digital input of sub 2 (daisy chain)? I thought it would work but when I try it, the output level of sub 2 is extremely quiet, even after running all the way through the first mic measurement. Would the only option in this case be to use an rca y-splitter?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Can anyone clarify for me, in a dual 750 sub setup, where the source only has one spdif output, is it possible to run the signal to sub 1 and the connect the digital output of sub 1 to the digital input of sub 2 (daisy chain)? I thought it would work but when I try it, the output level of sub 2 is extremely quiet, even after running all the way through the first mic measurement. Would the only option in this case be to use an rca y-splitter?

I don´t know how the digital output of the KH750 is supposed to work. It would be nice to know.

But i asked @Markus @ Neumann some time ago how to connect 2 KH750 digitally in the most ideal way, and he answered i could use an interface with two digital outputs (like the RME UCX II i bought afterwards) or use an active splitter for the digital signal.

He wrote (in german, translated by deepl here): "There is nothing wrong with a splitter if it keeps both input and output impedance constant and if the level required to drive the subwoofers is sufficient. This is difficult to guarantee via a passive solution. Therefore, I recommend an active splitter that splits the incoming digital signal to two outputs in accordance with the impedance and level."

I don´t know what option there are, though. I guess(!) something like this would work but it seems overkill: https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_mc_11_aes_splitter_konverter.htm
Maybe there are cheaper options, but i don´t know them.

 

[artishard116]

I don´t know how the digital output of the KH750 is supposed to work. It would be nice to know.

But i asked @Markus @ Neumann some time ago how to connect 2 KH750 digitally in the most ideal way, and he answered i could use an interface with two digital outputs (like the RME UCX II i bought afterwards) or use an active splitter for the digital signal.

He wrote (in german, translated by deepl here): "There is nothing wrong with a splitter if it keeps both input and output impedance constant and if the level required to drive the subwoofers is sufficient. This is difficult to guarantee via a passive solution. Therefore, I recommend an active splitter that splits the incoming digital signal to two outputs in accordance with the impedance and level."

I don´t know what option there are, though. I guess(!) something like this would work but it seems overkill: https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_mc_11_aes_splitter_konverter.htm
Maybe there are cheaper options, but i don´t know them.

Thanks for sharing, so far I also haven’t found anything affordable, either as a source with multiple digital outs or as an active splitter. I considered putting a minidsp flex digital or rme adi 2 pro between the source (Wiimpro) and speakers but both seem excessive when basically just used as a splitter.

As a quick and dirty solution I spliced together a y-cable out of regular rca’s and it works. I can’t hear any issues and don’t have the capability of doing measurements but it would be interesting to see if a cheap rca-splitter degrades the signal in any measurable way.

 

[badboygolf16v]

I don´t know what option there are, though. I guess(!) something like this would work but it seems overkill: https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_mc_11_aes_splitter_konverter.htm
Maybe there are cheaper options, but i don´t know them.

I used the Mutec MC-1.1+ when I had a two KH 750 setup and it worked fine. Very expensive for what it's being used for but it's a lovely piece of kit, exudes quality.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I compared the MA1 to Dirac Live Bass Control with my dual KH750 system. Maybe of interest for some.

Neumann MA1 vs. Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) - Dual KH750 subs

Hello, i have a dual sub Neumann system (2x KH310, 2x KH750 DSP). I use the MA1 microphone and software for room EQ. I also own a Dirac Live license (PC standalone) that i have not used for a long time. Because Dirac released DLBC, i decided to get the trial version and compare the results of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Klatu]

If I may digress, does the Automatic Monitor Alignment only work with MA1?

If I know a serial number of MA1, is it possible to use it with different mic?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

If I may digress, does the Automatic Monitor Alignment only work with MA1?

If I know a serial number of MA1, is it possible to use it with different mic?

Yes.

No.
The serial no. ensures that the correct calibration curve for the specific mic is used. It would not generate a correct results with other mics.

 

[Klatu]

Yes.

No.
The serial no. ensures that the correct calibration curve for the specific mic is used. It would not generate a correct results with other mics.

I have KH80DSPs. MA1 is too expensive for me and hard to find a used one. I just wondered is it really worth buying only for the calibration. Maybe I should first check the current status of my room with cheaper calibration mic like UMM-6... Thanks.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I have KH80DSPs. MA1 is too expensive for me and hard to find a used one. I just wondered is it really worth buying only for the calibration. Maybe I should first check the current status of my room with cheaper calibration mic like UMM-6... Thanks.

In theory, if you had a serial and calibration number, you could use the MA1 software, but
- the calibration will not be correct
- it does not work with a usb mic
- you'll need an interface with 48V, like the Focusrite Solo, and the right cables to connect the speakers to it.

In theory, you could start with a cheap measurement mic, try out the MA1 alignment, maybe tune the uncorrect (due to wrong mic) result by ear and decide wether or not upgrading to the original MA1 mic is worth it.

Or start with a USB mic and sell it, if you decide taking the 48V-route later.

 

[Klatu]

In theory, if you had a serial and calibration number, you could use the MA1 software, but
- the calibration will not be correct
- it does not work with a usb mic
- you'll need an interface with 48V, like the Focusrite Solo, and the right cables to connect the speakers to it.

In theory, you could start with a cheap measurement mic, try out the MA1 alignment, maybe tune the uncorrect (due to wrong mic) result by ear and decide wether or not upgrading to the original MA1 mic is worth it.

Or start with a USB mic and sell it, if you decide taking the 48V-route later.

I like your plans, many thanks!

 

[MrSoul4470]

I have a probably very stupid question about the DSP in KH80, KH150 and now KH120 II. Is it possible to not use the MA 1 system at all and just connect to the monitors and manually put in PEQ values? I want to try the new KH120 II and just don't also want to order the MA 1 right away. I have experience with REW and stuff. So that isn't a problem. The question really just is if the built in DSP can just be used like that without further hardware (that is the MA 1 and a audio interface). Thanks!

 

[radix]

I have a probably very stupid question about the DSP in KH80, KH150 and now KH120 II. Is it possible to not use the MA 1 system at all and just connect to the monitors and manually put in PEQ values? I want to try the new KH120 II and just don't also want to order the MA 1 right away. I have experience with REW and stuff. So that isn't a problem. The question really just is if the built in DSP can just be used like that without further hardware (that is the MA 1 and a audio interface). Thanks!

In Neumann.Control app: "Manual Alignment – expert users have complete freedom to adjust an 8-band fully parametric equalizer, levels and the time-of-flight delay in each loudspeaker/subwoofer as they wish. Manual Alignment can also be used to edit Guided Alignments in a more detailed way."

 

[MrSoul4470]

Perfect! Thanks!

 

[radix]

Perfect! Thanks!

The caveat is it's an ipad app only, AFAIK.

 

[MrSoul4470]

So you can't do that using the MA1 PC software? okay. We'll see. Worst case is that I have to order the MA1 and some cheap audio interface.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

So you can't do that using the MA1 PC software? okay. We'll see. Worst case is that I have to order the MA1 and some cheap audio interface.

The PC software requires the serial number of the MA1 mic. So no it won’t work without it.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I don't know if the ipad app works with the KH150 or 120II. But i don't think so. It hasn't been updated since 2019.

See also: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-sennheiser-sound-control-protocol-ssc.38607/

 

[danbei]

The ipad app does definitely not work with the KH150 (I tried it). It most probably does not work with the KH120 II neither as nothing suggest this in the speaker description or in the app description.

 

[J-B]

Is the new KH 120 II already supported by the MA-1 software?
It's not yet in the supported list on the MA-1 product page (Neumann website).