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New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

And did you click replace monitor? What does it do? Get stuck?
Yes, Alignment Tool offers to choose my second subwoofer :). But if I turn off the second subwoofer, then there is nothing to replace (an empty list of devices) :).

I have tried selecting a second subwoofer (just for fun) and this allows the alignment tool to complete its work. But I didn't use created alignment setting and removed it.
 
Many thanks, but this does not help either, as I'm not able to create an alignment for the analog setup due to the issue. Due to this I have nothing to switch from Backplate settings to. Also: maybe it is another bug in MA1 SW or KH750 firmware, and my assumption that it does come from the KH750 Channel B Input mode is wrong. I might send a message to headoffice@neumann.com soon...
As @schallmauer asked me to do so, I today sent an error report about the "left satellite remains silent in analog setup" issue via mail to headoffice@neumann.com. I hope turnaround by the Neumann support is a bit faster when last time with the MA1 version 1.5 issues...
 
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Hey @AudioBoy ,

in terms of the gain drop in network mode, have you tried the factory reset of the KH 750?

The error message comes up when MA 1 does not reach the speakers comprised in the setup selected.
There seems to be a reliabilty issue with your network.
 
in terms of the gain drop in network mode, have you tried the factory reset of the KH 750?
Hi!

Of course, I've wrote about it here
The error message comes up when MA 1 does not reach the speakers comprised in the setup selected.
Speaker or subwoofer? The message says MA-1 lost the sub.
Could it be because I'm using 1-to-1 config (one sub - one speaker) for right and left channel?
Then why didn't the software notice that it's only one speaker responded during measurements?
Then why didn't the software report that the KH120 (which I choose for emulation) was lost ?
I guess these questions should be addressed to you QA team :)

There seems to be a reliabilty issue with your network.
It's impossible :) I told you as system adminstator and programmer :). You may not believe me if you wish.

I really appreciate you trying to help.
 
Hi!

Of course, I've wrote about it here

Speaker or subwoofer? The message says MA-1 lost the sub.
Could it be because I'm using 1-to-1 config (one sub - one speaker) for right and left channel?
Then why didn't the software notice that it's only one speaker responded during measurements?
Then why didn't the software report that the KH120 (which I choose for emulation) was lost ?
I guess these questions should be addressed to you QA team :)


It's impossible :) I told you as system adminstator and programmer :). You may not believe me if you wish.

I really appreciate you trying to help.
Do you have 1x or 2x KH750? If you have 2, are you trying a stereo configuration? Are you following this workaround? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...c-monitor-alignment.17902/page-15#post-797654
 
Do you have 1x or 2x KH750?
2
If you have 2, are you trying a stereo configuration?
Yes. if I undestand it correctly it means one main speaker + one sub for each side, right?
Thanks, I've read it. I connected only one speaker to the subwoofer during the measurement session. The software didn't mind this during calibration. I assumed that the Neumann developers simplified the MA-1 calibration procedure and now it is not necessary to connect two main speakers. Also, how could it be that the program only received two signals instead of three, and it was perfectly acceptable to continue measuring instead of saying: hey, I didn't get a signal from one of the speakers, could you check it for me?
 
2

Yes. if I undestand it correctly it means one main speaker + one sub for each side, right?

Thanks, I've read it. I connected only one speaker to the subwoofer during the measurement session. The software didn't mind this during calibration. I assumed that the Neumann developers simplified the MA-1 calibration procedure and now it is not necessary to connect two main speakers. Also, how could it be that the program only received two signals instead of three, and it was perfectly acceptable to continue measuring instead of saying: hey, I didn't get a signal from one of the speakers, could you check it for me?
I don´t fully understand what you are saying, but did you try connecting only 1 sub at once to the network like described in the workaround? You have to make two different setups for the 2 subs and calibrate 1 at a time, while disconnecting the other.
The software does not support stereo subs natively.
The "mono" workaround is not necessary anymore, because the software now supports 2 subs in a mono configuration. You can calibrate a dual mono sub setup in one go, but you have to connect all of the speakers. You can either plug both mains in 1 sub or R main in R sub and L main in L sub - it does not matter, because both subs need the same stereo signal.
 
I don´t fully understand what you are saying, but did you try connecting only 1 sub at once to the network like described in the workaround? You have to make two different setups for the 2 subs and calibrate 1 at a time, while disconnecting the other.
The software does not support stereo subs natively.
The "mono" workaround is not necessary anymore, because the software now supports 2 subs in a mono configuration. You can calibrate a dual mono sub setup in one go, but you have to connect all of the speakers. You can either plug both mains in 1 sub or R main in R sub and L main in L sub - it does not matter, because both subs need the same stereo signal.
I thought you were talking about connecting two speakers to the subwoofer during calibration. Now I see you mean to turn the second sub off. :)

So my answer is no, I didn't turn off the second sub, but now I want to try it. Thanks and sorry for my english.
 
I thought you were talking about connecting two speakers to the subwoofer during calibration. Now I see you mean to turn the second sub off. :)

So my answer is no, I didn't turn off the second sub, but now I want to try it. Thanks and sorry for my english.
Ok, if you have configured a setup in the software with only 1 sub and trying to calibrate this, you should indeed turn the second sub off or disconnect the network cable.

But i think you should also connect the second main speaker to this first sub temporarily for calibration (like it is described in the "stereo" workaround i linked to). I am not 100% sure about this, though, never tried to calibrate a setup with only 1 main speaker.
 
If you have 2, are you trying a stereo configuration?
Yes. if I undestand it correctly it means one main speaker + one sub for each side, right?
2

Yes. if I undestand it correctly it means one main speaker + one sub for each side, right?

Thanks, I've read it. I connected only one speaker to the subwoofer during the measurement session. The software didn't mind this during calibration. I assumed that the Neumann developers simplified the MA-1 calibration procedure and now it is not necessary to connect two main speakers. Also, how could it be that the program only received two signals instead of three, and it was perfectly acceptable to continue measuring instead of saying: hey, I didn't get a signal from one of the speakers, could you check it for me?
Hey @AudioBoy, FYI just on that wiring aspect:
For MA 1, in a 2x subwoofer configuration, both subwoofers need to receive both the L and R signals and additionally, the satellites need to be connected to the same subwoofer that is identified as Left Subwoofer, so that the measurement signals "arrive" at the correct speaker.
 
additionally, the satellites need to be connected to the same subwoofer that is identified as Left Subwoofer, so that the measurement signals "arrive" at the correct speaker.
I did not know this and never had it that way - is this a new requirement?
 
Hey @AudioBoy, FYI just on that wiring aspect:
For MA 1, in a 2x subwoofer configuration, both subwoofers need to receive both the L and R signals and additionally, the satellites need to be connected to the same subwoofer that is identified as Left Subwoofer, so that the measurement signals "arrive" at the correct speaker.
Hello!

Due to my cable management it is hard to connect each speaker to the subwoofer. So I guess I better stay with local settings and manual calibration.
 
I did not know this and never had it that way - is this a new requirement?
Hello @DJBonoBobo.
Initally, in dual sub setups, the second sub was able to feed the satellites as well, but in order to keep the filter upload time to a minimum, we reduced the total number of filters by exluding the satellite outputs of the second sub from alignment.
This change was introduced in MA 1 version from 1.4 or 1.5.
The wiring instructions are displayed during the system setup and are checked during the measurement preparations.
Hope that's helpful.
 
Hello @DJBonoBobo.
Initally, in dual sub setups, the second sub was able to feed the satellites as well, but in order to keep the filter upload time to a minimum, we reduced the total number of filters by exluding the satellite outputs of the second sub from alignment.
This change was introduced in MA 1 version from 1.4 or 1.5.
The wiring instructions are displayed during the system setup and are checked during the measurement preparations.
Hope that's helpful.
So this sub would be the master and it output to the L&R main speakers and also to the other sub? I can see that a 750 has a pair of analogue inputs and outputs, L&R respectively, and one BNC input and one BNC output. Each BNC is for L&R. I'm wondering how the connection would be. Thanks!
 
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Hello @DJBonoBobo.
Initally, in dual sub setups, the second sub was able to feed the satellites as well, but in order to keep the filter upload time to a minimum, we reduced the total number of filters by exluding the satellite outputs of the second sub from alignment.
This change was introduced in MA 1 version from 1.4 or 1.5.
The wiring instructions are displayed during the system setup and are checked during the measurement preparations.
Hope that's helpful.
Thanks, but I find several things odd about this:
- This is a major change that may even require installation/cabling changes. Fortunately, it is possible for me to implement it differently, but this is a change I would not have expected.
- It's not in the manual or the changelog. I thought I was well informed about the KH750 and the MA1, yet I didn't catch it. This may just be my fault, but I think it should be explained better.
- I had my mains plugged into the right sub the whole time, and it still seems to have worked. A few days ago I tried something else and changed the wiring (Lsub -> Lmain, Rsub -> Rmain) and that seemed to work as well. If something wasn't working properly, it didn't show me. Now I'm wondering how that can be.
 
Hey @HQY and @DJBonobo,

apologies, but my above statement on satellite connection is not correct.
I have double checked with MA 1 1.6.2 for analog and digital inputs to the sub. The system works a expected with the right satellite to either sub's Ch B output.

Apparently, limiting the satellite connections to only one subwoofer was just under discussion internally but is not comprised in the 1.6.2 release.
The need for potentially rewiring your setup has been one of the reasons, not to go there.

Again, apologies for any confusion caused.
 
As @schallmauer asked me to do so, I today sent an error report about the "left satellite remains silent in analog setup" issue via mail to headoffice@neumann.com. I hope turnaround by the Neumann support is a bit faster when last time with the MA1 version 1.5 issues...
My problem (Analog setup does not work in Network mode, but only in Local mode of KH 750) is solved now. Support from Neumann was very fast and good this time. Great job and kudos to the folks at Neumann!

I wrote a mail headoffice@neumann.com on Monday morning and got a reply from Neumann on Monday evening and a phone call on Tuesday to solve the problem. This was not successful yet, and the problem was routed to Neumann software development. From them I got an email reply on Thursday, which solved my problem:

I do not know if this was already mentioned in this lengthy thread, but there are now on MacOS two folders where MA 1 saves its settings:
An old one, used for example by MA 1 version 1.1, at
/Users/<username>/Library/Containers/com.neumann.alignment/Data/.local/share/Automatic Alignment
where MA 1 version 1.6 does not write data any longer, and a new one at
/Users/<username>/.local/share/Automatic Alignment
Newer MA 1 version might read after upgrade for instance from the 1st folder to migrate the settings. (Neumann told me that the folder change was needed to comply with Apple guidelines).
I was not aware of the 2nd folder, and as it has no "neumann" in the name, it is not obvious.

To solve my problem, I closed MA 1, did a KH 750 reset, moved both folders to Desktop (all the existing 1.6 alignments are in the 2nd folder) and started MA 1 new in a fresh state. I gave in all the usual data like serial number and did my the calibrations again, but now everything works fine.
So maybe, it is a good idea to remove both folders and to do a KH 750 reset in case of enduring MA 1 problems.

What I learned in addition:
- If you use an analog connection between soundcard and KH 750, you should do the MA 1 alignment via analog connection as well. If you have an automatic setup in MA 1, you can reuse an digital alignment for analog connection, but it is not optimal because the timing corrections for digital do not fit perfectly to an analog connection. That's logical, but was not completely clear to me. It means also that the same alignment might sound different depending if you use analog or digital connection. Therefore, they recommend to do and use one alignment for digital and one for analog.
- I got another confirmation that KH750 DSP works internally at the moment with 48 kHz. Neumann stated that they use high quality AD and DA converters. But sending the KH 750 a digital signal with more than 48 kHz helps nothing quality wise. And as documented: If you have an digital signal already Neumann recommends to use digital connection.
 
To solve my problem, I closed MA 1, did a KH 750 reset, moved both folders to Desktop (all the existing 1.6 alignments are in the 2nd folder) and started MA 1 new in a fresh state. I gave in all the usual data like serial number and did my the calibrations again, but now everything works fine.
So maybe, it is a good idea to remove both folders and to do a KH 750 reset in case of enduring MA 1 problems.

- I got another confirmation that KH750 DSP works internally at the moment with 48 kHz. Neumann stated that they use high quality AD and DA converters. But sending the KH 750 a digital signal with more than 48 kHz helps nothing quality wise. And as documented: If you have an digital signal already Neumann recommends to use digital connection.
That is why I said before that MA1 is not compatible with MA1 - no compatibility between versions like in all other sw. You have to uninstall old version, delete all remaining files (you have to know where they are), delete registers, install new version and if you are lucky it will run. Maybe. But this is not the way how we users want to work.

Internal resampling - what about resampling 44kHz (99% of music) to 48kHz - is this OK? Is internal resampling implementation better than "resampling via analog" with high end DAC?
 
That is why I said before that MA1 is not compatible with MA1 - no compatibility between versions like in all other sw. You have to uninstall old version, delete all remaining files (you have to know where they are), delete registers, install new version and if you are lucky it will run. Maybe. But this is not the way how we users want to work.

Internal resampling - what about resampling 44kHz (99% of music) to 48kHz - is this OK? Is internal resampling implementation better than "resampling via analog" with high end DAC?
Well, I never noticed any audible difference between sending native 44kHz to the KH 750 or doing a 48 kHz conversion 1st. But I did no systematic A/B tests so far. For me, such a test did not seem worth the effort. Other influences are for sure far more important (treated room, loud speakers, correct callibration, etc.)
 
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