New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[audafreak]

Hey all, thanks for working through the issues you guys have experienced and glad you like the outcome.

Please make sure to use the latest release 1.6.2 of the MA 1 which can be downloaded from the Neumann Website after registration.
@audafreak The entry in the menu you are quoting sounds like an older version, could you please double check?

With this latest version, you can also easily get in touch with Neumann about problems and remarks via clicking this text bubble icon in the upper right corner within the software:
View attachment 261338
Thanks!

I know. I use MA1 from the very beginning, before that I used ipad Neumann Control app. I have used all versions which were released. I have spent tens of hours by trying to solve/workaround different MA1 issues. As a software developer I have some advantage in solving comparing standard audio user.

There were some versions where I had almost no problems. With most of them I had many different issues. Even different issues each start. I think that MA1 is even not compatible with MA1. Crazy. If you have clean Windows and install MA1 sw for the first time then it may work. But after next update... you can expect anything. Yes, you can uninstall older version, delete all files and registry related to MA1 if you know what and where, reset monitors and then reinstall latest version. But in this case you will loose all your previous alignments and everything. And if sw will fail again, you will have nothing, no alignment, reseted monitors... and no solution of this situation.
And this is not user friendly to delete system files manually.
It looks like MA1 is not able to update itself correctly. Maybe some incompatibility of config files between versions. I don't know.

Here is screenshot where you can see version and "Create new measurement" and next screen is what I get when clicking on it.. Forever - orange circle is not moving - sw hangs forever.

@schallmauer @jj-wohlgemuth
By the way, setting for autostandby and bug with autostanby with KH80 FW was reported by many users and asked very long time ago, almost from very beginning after MA1 first release. Settings implementation is very simple.
KH80 FW bug has probably something to do with SPL set on monitors. Some time ago I have tested it wit Neumann Control app where I can set parameters. It looks that if SPL is set to 100dB it worked for me. If it was set to 85dB than monitors went to sleep even if input signal was strong. Probably some wrong computation of threshold. It would be nice to solve this problem after maybe 3 years (or more?)

 

[schallmauer]

Hey @thisdirtyriver,

when creating a setup in MA 1, an input mode has to be selected and becomes a parameter of the setup. So If you're running digital inputs during the alignment process, the KH 750 expects digital inputs only.

When you're switching your KH 750 to local, the alignment parameters are disregarded and the backplate switch positions are applied.
So what you're experiencing makes sense!

I would suggest either using the input mode 'Automatic', where digital signals are prioritized over analog signals, or creating an second setup, choosing 'Analog'.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[schallmauer]

Hey @audafreak ,

please report the issue via the feedback function by clicking on that icon in the upper right corner so the team can look into this:

 

[audafreak]

Hey @audafreak ,

please report the issue via the feedback function by clicking on that icon in the upper right corner so the team can look into this:

Would YOU please report it to YOUR team that YOUR software has those bugs? I experienced similar bug (app not responding) with some previous versions, it not for the first time. I would like to see much more activity from Neumann side. I have already spent many tens of hours with your bugs.

 

[schallmauer]

Hey @audafreak,

sure, I can do that and I will in this case.
However, the benefit of using this particular communications channel is that we learn how to contact you properly and also will receive relevant details on the problem and system info, which is helpful to understanding the issue.

I understand your frustration, but as we cannot be present in all threads of all forums to collect issue reports, I would like to ask users to report issues to either [email protected] or use this feedback feature.

Thanks.

 

[audafreak]

Hey @audafreak,

sure, I can do that and I will in this case.
However, the benefit of using this particular communications channel is that we learn how to contact you properly and also will receive relevant details on the problem and system info, which is helpful to understanding the issue.

I understand your frustration, but as we cannot be present in all threads of all forums to collect issue reports, I would like to ask users to report issues to either [email protected] or use this feedback feature.

Thanks.

Ok. And would you please also change email on you page? [email protected] is a black hole and nobody answers as reported by other users.
It is very unusual if you want help/service you should not mail to service@neumann.com but to headoffice@neumann.com. Very strange...

Also it would be good to have possibility to login to our customer account somehow like current B2B login and not only trying to download something and instead creating account find small text for login.

Also would be good to instruct users not to login with login icon (B2B login) as in all other web sites in the world. That it is not login for users.

You have great HW and internal alignment engine in MA1 but user frontend on both web and MA1 is ... not good and chaotic to be polite.

As you can see in my footer I have some RME devices. Also German company. Much - really much more complicated software than MA1 but almost no bugs, and if there is some small very special bug then it is corrected mostly in hours. Great company - users love them.

...

 

[thisdirtyriver]

Hey @thisdirtyriver,

when creating a setup in MA 1, an input mode has to be selected and becomes a parameter of the setup. So If you're running digital inputs during the alignment process, the KH 750 expects digital inputs only.

When you're switching your KH 750 to local, the alignment parameters are disregarded and the backplate switch positions are applied.
So what you're experiencing makes sense!

I would suggest either using the input mode 'Automatic', where digital signals are prioritized over analog signals, or creating an second setup, choosing 'Analog'.

Hope that's helpful

Thanks @schallmauer for the fast response.
However, I created an analog setup already before posting the issue. It did not help. Before any alignment, the UI states "Backplate setting". So this is what I expect - remember both KH 120s work well in local mode with my backplate settings. But I do not get it here as the left speaker remains silent ;-). This looks like a bug to me.

I now tried to create a new alignment for this analog set up. BTW: it would be nice to be able to copy over alignments between setups.
But I failed in the Output signal level adaptation step, as MA1 complained about measured signal level too low:

But the analog level was all way up though the signal chain. I could even hear the right KH120 hiss(!) before the process muted the speakers while the left speaker remained silent all the way. Probably the left channel is erroriously silent in this whole process step. And this would explain why MA1 complains about the signal level.

So, for me it's a bug, not a feature, sorry.
A possibility to set the KH750 Channel B Input mode to stereo via MA1 would solve my issue.
Any further tips?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Any further tips?

Only one thing i found out - i don't know if this helps you, though: When you switch to "Backplate setting", the software uses the setting of this moment. But, if you change the switches on the backplate afterwards, the software does not recognize the changes. You have to switch to some alignment and then back to "backplate" to hear the effect of the changed switch.

 

[thisdirtyriver]

Only one thing i found out - i don't know if this helps you, though: When you switch to "Backplate setting", the software uses the setting of this moment. But, if you change the switches on the backplate afterwards, the software does not recognize the changes. You have to switch to some alignment and then back to "backplate" to hear the effect of the changed switch.

Many thanks, but this does not help either, as I'm not able to create an alignment for the analog setup due to the issue. Due to this I have nothing to switch from Backplate settings to. Also: maybe it is another bug in MA1 SW or KH750 firmware, and my assumption that it does come from the KH750 Channel B Input mode is wrong. I might send a message to headoffice@neumann.com soon...

 

[schallmauer]

Ok. And would you please also change email on you page? [email protected] is a black hole and nobody answers as reported by other users.
It is very unusual if you want help/service you should not mail to service@neumann.com but to headoffice@neumann.com. Very strange...

Also it would be good to have possibility to login to our customer account somehow like current B2B login and not only trying to download something and instead creating account find small text for login.

Also would be good to instruct users not to login with login icon (B2B login) as in all other web sites in the world. That it is not login for users.

You have great HW and internal alignment engine in MA1 but user frontend on both web and MA1 is ... not good and chaotic to be polite.

As you can see in my footer I have some RME devices. Also German company. Much - really much more complicated software than MA1 but almost no bugs, and if there is some small very special bug then it is corrected mostly in hours. Great company - users love them.

...

Hey,

@audafreak, thanks for the feedback. Yes, way to go and working on it!

I do have good news on two aspects:

Both email adresses actually feed into the same account and we are looking to follow up all inquiries.

The entry point of for customer accounts actually is the Product Registration button on top of the page.
Again, I see how this can be confused with the "bust" icon of the B2B account and we are currently working on improving the differentiation of both systems.

 

[neunoir]

That’s great. Although my KH80/KH750 (audiointerface as input and speakers set to lowest gain if I remember correctly) wake up every time and go to sleep reliably, they sometimes wake up for no apparent reason and after the set time go back to sleep. It isn’t a killer but would be great at this product level to work reliably.

same issue here.

 

[neunoir]

@schallmauer Could you please look into this? Any insights from your side?

Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

Glad I have it, I will enjoy my favorite music.

audiosciencereview.com

 

[AudioBoy]

Hi guys!

Can anyone explain why the KH750 subwoofer (firmware v1.1.0) lowers the volume of the main speaker if I switch the subwoofer to network mode?

I should clarify that I am using a subwoofer with third party speakers not made by Neumann. In the subwoofer app (Neumann.Control App for Mac) there is no way to increase the volume of the speaker separately from the subwoofer without the help of an equalizer. The speakers I use are usually passive and don't have a separate volume control.

Could this be because I choose the KH120 as my main speaker and the subwoofer automatically adjusts to it? If I remember correctly, choosing other speaker models from the list (KH80, KH310 ,etc) does not change anything, and the volume level of the main speaker still drops by about 6 dB.

Returning to local mode restores the volume level of the main speaker. Tried a full reset of the sub, didn't help.

 

[HQY]

I did a re-calibrate for my 750/80 2.1 system after MA1's upgrade. I use MacMini. The whole process was fine and smooth. As for the sound after the re-calibration, I cannot tell the difference.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hi guys!

Can anyone explain why the KH750 subwoofer (firmware v1.1.0) lowers the volume of the main speaker if I switch the subwoofer to network mode?

I should clarify that I am using a subwoofer with third party speakers not made by Neumann. In the subwoofer app (Neumann.Control App for Mac) there is no way to increase the volume of the speaker separately from the subwoofer without the help of an equalizer. The speakers I use are usually passive and don't have a separate volume control.

Could this be because I choose the KH120 as my main speaker and the subwoofer automatically adjusts to it? If I remember correctly, choosing other speaker models from the list (KH80, KH310 ,etc) does not change anything, and the volume level of the main speaker still drops by about 6 dB.

Returning to local mode restores the volume level of the main speaker. Tried a full reset of the sub, didn't help.View attachment 262304

Look at the manual, as I am quoting from memory. Local mode uses the gain and “sound” settings from the back panel and network mode from the MA1 calibration. Most likely you are using different gains / calibrations.

 

[AudioBoy]

Local mode uses the gain and “sound” settings from the back panel and network mode from the MA1 calibration

Thanks, but what if MA-1 calibration was not made at all?
Did you notice a change in volume balance between mains and subwoofer after the MA-1 calibration?

As far as I know, all the settings on the back panel only adjust the subwoofer gain and low cut levels, just like the Neumann.Control app.
Are mains gain settings available after MA-1 calibration?

I tried to calibrate the sub twice, but unfortunately, after all the steps, when the MA-1 starts to prepare the measurement results, it suggested that I substitute the sub, since MA-1 lost it or something like that, I don’t remember correctly (but I can start the process again and then post a screenshot of this message if anyone is interested)

It is strange that all the steps of the measurements went well, and when the software tries to create a calibration profile ends the process with an offer to substitue the subwoofer.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Thanks, but what if MA-1 calibration was not made at all?
Did you notice a change in volume balance between mains and subwoofer after the MA-1 calibration?

As far as I know, all the settings on the back panel only adjust the subwoofer gain and low cut levels, just like the Neumann.Control app.
Are mains gain settings available after MA-1 calibration?

I tried to calibrate the sub twice, but unfortunately, after all the steps, when the MA-1 starts to prepare the measurement results, it suggested that I substitute the sub, since MA-1 lost it or something like that, I don’t remember correctly (but I can start the process again and then post a screenshot of this message if anyone is interested)

It is strange that all the steps of the measurements went well, and when the software tries to create a calibration profile ends the process with an offer to substitue the subwoofer.

I would contact Neumann directly. They might take a bit, but usually come back with very expert advice. This is part of why we happily pay a bit extra.

 

[schallmauer]

Hey @AudioBoy,

The measurements you have shared are post Neumann.Control Alignment?
If so, this would make Sense as Neumann.Control.expects a certain "Sensitivity" which should be set the for all devices (usually 100 dB) so they match in level.
If your 3rd party speaker is generating less SPL, then it will not match the Sub Level.

MA 1 however would compensate that to some extent.
What is the error Message you're getting?
I presume the error keeps you from finishing the alignment?

Best.

 

[AudioBoy]

The measurements you have shared are post Neumann.Control Alignment?

No, I just measure the sub and my main speaker with REW in local mode then switch to network mode (after resetting the subwoofer) and measure again. In network mode, the volume of the main speaker is always quieter than in local mode. I have two KH750 and they both demonstrate the same behaviour. All my settings are made in manual mode, I never trust automatic in such delicate work

If so, this would make Sense as Neumann.Control.expects a certain "Sensitivity" which should be set the for all devices (usually 100 dB) so they match in level.

Yes, I understand this. I guess the subwoofer software automatically adjust speaker gain level for KH120 speaker which I usually choose form the list of main speakers. My main speakers have 6.5'' or 7'' mid-woofers and can go very loud at near-field LP. It just could be great if it was possible to separately control main speaker volume in Neumann Control App like the subwoofer volume or just have in the list of speakers one more item called "third-party speaker" with the same gain level as in local mode (just pass-through). I have to use manual setup only because of this, but its quite annoying to crawling across the floor each time I need to ajust something.

What is the error Message you're getting?

I'll try to reproduce the message and post the screenshot if I could.

I presume the error keeps you from finishing the alignment?

Yep.

 

[AudioBoy]

ok, here is the message