New Klipsch Jubilee speaker

[garyrc]

I'm reminded of Bill Hartsfield's take on the corner horn. 10 years in production, '54 to '64. Eventually morphing into the Everest, more or less.

View attachment 228688

It was very, very clear sounding, especially after JBL converted it to a three-way by adding the 075 super tweeter, in the Hartsfield's last year, I think. I think the problem there was although vinyl had fairly recently begun to embrace frequencies above 10KHz (where the original Hartsfield dropped like a rock), they were distorted maybe 1/3 of the time, and the 075 revealed that all too well. JBL provided a N700 (?) X-over network that brought the 075 in at 7K Hz. The Achillies heel of this network was that Lansing provided a level control -- people would turn it up for a nice, clean recording, and it would be grating for the average Lp. The End. Paul Klipsch refused to provide level controls for his speakers, because they were almost always misadjusted by consumers.

It looked great. I actually saw a photo of one in an art gallery. It fit right in.

The bass was weak compared to a Klipschorn and many other speakers. I heard them repeatedly at audio stores and Hi Fi fairs in the late '50s, early '60s.

 

[garyrc]

One can really go overboard with subs, from a monetary point. But, then again, it's not as if Klipsch (or any) full horn loudspeaker maker is giving it away. The sub I use is embarrassingly cheap (and inexpensive LOL), but set to an almost imperceptible gain, and at its lowest internal crossover point, it makes a subtle improvement-- at least with 'filling in' the lower end. Nothing fancy. No DSP or anything like that. Just by ear. Not ASR tier, for sure.

One thing people criticize La Scalas for (and maybe K-horns, I don't have them so I can't say) is that the structure is not as rigid as it could be. No doubt this has an affect on the LF, and not in a positive way. Some have taken to bracing the lower enclosure. Some have turned the bass enclosure around, facing the wall/corner, in order to accentuate bass wave launch, mimicking a corner horn.

For the Klippelized ASR crowd, at least the vast majority of them, a horn loudspeaker isn't going to do it. The 'waterfall' alone would make Annie Edson Taylor's trip seem pretty mild and uneventful, by comparison.

I would never advise anyone to buy one of the larger Klipsch loudspeakers. I would, however, advise anyone interested to try and find someone with a pair, and then do some extended listening. The idea that you will be able to go to Guitar Center, buy a boxed set, throw them in the back seat, and when you get home spend a week listening to them in your living room, then return them for something else the next time you need to buy a pack of Ernie Ball's, is pretty much out of the question.

An authorized dealer will probably work with you if you are serious. But with any large loudspeaker, it's probably going to be like that. I don't know about these monsters, since I imagine they are special order, built on demand

FWIW, I bought mine 'mail order'. The dealer shipped them in a truck, sedning two men to assist. The deal was that if I didn't like them they would send Two Men and a Truck to my house, box them up, and take them back. I took them at their word. FWIW, since I bought mine, three years ago, retail price has gone up five thousand dollars. I like them, but I would not pay five thousand dollars more for them. If I was younger I would just say, "Screw it... I'm buying a high performance Japanese motorcycle. I'm going to get real value for my dollar..."

For our center channel, for both movies and music, we use a fully horn loaded Belle Klipsch

(supposedly sonically identical to the La Scala, and the center channel in PWK's house). It's sides are smaller, and a bit firmer, than those of the original La Scalas, but we put some pressure on the sides, anyway, to damp resonances. This was easy, as it's flush mounted.

The flanking Khorns have a rock solid front surface of the bass bin. I don't know about the rest of the wood, but we don't hear anything untoward.

 

[mhardy6647]

My, that is a big speaker. Makes me want see the surrounds that go with it haha.

Those... are... the surrounds.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

Those... are... the surrounds.

I’d love to hear them.

 

[Digicile]

That is the biggest speaker I've ever seen. I bet they rock.

 

[garyrc]

In 1978 I bought mine new from the local dealer for $500 each, $1k the pair.
In some states that would just about cover the tax today. LOL

Whenever we buy something, I'm grateful that Oregon has no sales tax.

The income tax is not a problem for people with moderate income, and the property tax, while high on a percentage basis is low in actual dollars, because the houses are so cheap compared to California where we came from. When we moved, one could get a house twice the size as in California for one half the price.

Meanwhile, we paid $1,450 per side for our Klipschorns (new) in 1983 -- now I see used ones of that vintage priced at $6,000, and a few @ $8,000. We updated them to AK5, so after our daughter inherits, she might get more. I've told I don't know how many insurance agents, "some of this stufs appreciates, you know. Not a believer in the bunch.

 

[Doodski]

That is the biggest speaker I've ever seen. I bet they rock.

Dual 12-inch woofers with three 4-inch ports. Sitting atop all that is a brand-new horn-loaded, compression driver with a 7-inch axiperiodic titanium diaphragm. In addition to standing 5 feet, 8 inches tall, each unit is also 4 feet wide; 2 feet, 6 inches deep and weighs a jaw-dropping 408 pounds. Don't forget the active crossover network with a built-in digital signal processor and equalizer too. They are deserving of a few more pics of them... I would be all over these like white on rice if I had the building to house them and the funds to afford the system.

 

[mhardy6647]

Altec A2s would put 'em to shame in terms of scale of reproduction, if nothing else

1975 PRO

Heck, these electrodynamic RCAs'll probably put 'em to shame, to -- without any qualification. Some of the best sounding loudspeakers I've ever experienced.

4 x 15 inch electrodynamic woofers, for a sense of scale. The treble driver's also an electrodynamic, though the tweeter is a PM driver.

 

[Doodski]

Heck, these electrodynamic RCAs'll probably put 'em to shame, to -- without any qualification. Some of the best sounding loudspeakers I've ever experienced.

What kind of vintage are those RCS's? They look huge!

 

[garyrc]

Or ... (the woofers are 15" JBLs)

Designed by JBL and Ampex for 70mm Todd-AO; five of these monsters behind a huge curved screen.

They are some of the best speakers I've ever experienced. I heard the 70mm 6 channel soundtracks of Around the World in 80 Days, Ben-Hur, and many others through them. They seemed more effortless, tighter, cleaner, snappier than the speakers that replaced them.

 

[mhardy6647]

What kind of vintage are those RCS's? RCAs? They look huge!

They are huge. Roughly 8 feet tall to the top of the multicell RCA treble horn.
There is no replacement for displacement.
I am not sure of the vintage; late 1940s perhaps. The tweeter is fairly modern.

Maybe a little older...

Movie Theatre - Sound System Advice

Hello all! My wife and I recently purchased the historic movie theatre in our town. The theatre was built in 1941 and is a brick/concrete art deco fortress (approximately 14k square feet). My goal is to get the (near) original sound system operational to determine if it is suitable for...

www.audioheritage.org

 

[Doodski]

They are huge. Roughly 8 feet tall to the top of the multicell RCA treble horn.
There is no replacement for displacement.
I am not sure of the vintage; late 1940s perhaps. The tweeter is fairly modern.

Maybe a little older...

Movie Theatre - Sound System Advice

Hello all! My wife and I recently purchased the historic movie theatre in our town. The theatre was built in 1941 and is a brick/concrete art deco fortress (approximately 14k square feet). My goal is to get the (near) original sound system operational to determine if it is suitable for...

www.audioheritage.org

Well... I hope somewhere somebody has a good working version on hand for the record. Of all these intriguing speakers.

 

[Sal1950]

Can you provide any more identifying info? I might be interested sooner or later.

How did you like them?

HSU HRSW12 manufactured approx 1990 no longer in production for maybe 25+ years.
I was very happy with them until the foam surrounds fell apart after many years use.
They were one of the first products Dr. Hsu brought to market.
Pricing was very reasonable do to the use of sonotube concrete forms for the housing.

 

[anmpr1]

One of the more rare and really amazingly put together units back in the day was the JBL 537-500 acoustic lens system. I heard it called the 'potato masher'.

 

[peanuts2]

Your evidence please.
There's a couple engineers at Hope with some design experience.
Statements of opinion hold no sway here.

what evidence? everybody knows that when the wavelenght turns smaller than the throat the driver will beam. ALL 1" tweeters start to narrow above 13.5khz, because that is 1" wavelenght. no horn can stop this unless it pinches the throat.
you can for example see this in the klippel measurements we have on the JBL M2. above 9khz (1.5")

also the larger the driver membrane is, the worse it will work in the high-end, using the same material ofcourse. logic. all large format drivers like 2" i have tried (within reason) sounds worse in upper range compared to a cheap small ones. breakup modes are bad.

 

[mhardy6647]

One of the more rare and really amazingly put together units back in the day was the JBL 537-500 acoustic lens system. I heard it called the 'potato masher'.

View attachment 228889

Yeah... but those 075 'bullets' in front of 'em are, I do believe, forbidden under the Geneva Convention. Them things is shrill!

 

[Sal1950]

what evidence? everybody knows that when the wavelenght turns smaller than the throat the driver will beam. ALL 1" tweeters start to narrow above 13.5khz, because that is 1" wavelenght. no horn can stop this unless it pinches the throat.
you can for example see this in the klippel measurements we have on the JBL M2. above 9khz (1.5")

also the larger the driver membrane is, the worse it will work in the high-end, using the same material ofcourse. logic. all large format drivers like 2" i have tried (within reason) sounds worse in upper range compared to a cheap small ones. breakup modes are bad.

Everything has compromise built into design, a horn's law of physics is no different.
There's give and take in the options of the number (and arrangement) of drivers used to make a full range speaker and no one is perfect. (horn, direct radiator, whatever.)
But your post (and this one) imply there are serious audible shortcomings in the Jubilee and JBL M2 (one of the most revered studio speakers in the world).
It's always easy to throw stones.

 

[Sal1950]

One of the more rare and really amazingly put together units back in the day was the JBL 537-500 acoustic lens system.

Wow, I never heard of them (or at least I don't remember).
Pretty kool looking to me.
Learn something new every day, thanks.

 

[garyrc]

Yeah... but those 075 'bullets' in front of 'em are, I do believe, forbidden under the Geneva Convention. Them things is shrill!

IMO, they are shrill if 1) Turned up too far 2) used with a terrible recording (maybe as many as 1/4 of all recodings). Forgiving they were not! I had them between about 1960 and 1982. I never heard them shrill on a 7.5 ips or 15 ips tape recording (originals we made), or good vinyl with a moving coil cartridge. They were used in the later Hartsfields, the Paragon, the S8R, etc., all at 7KHz Xover, which is where they would have crossed over to the "potato mashers" that @anmpr1 included. 075s intended for behind a screen were dull, not shiny, later black, so they wouldn't show through a perforated screen.

The potato mashers used the incomparable 2440 (or consumer version 375, the same except for nameplate) drivers that were amazingly clear, but dropped like a rock above 10K.

The Altec equivalent was similar. In the old, old days that was fine for movies, but magnetic soundtracks went higher, particularly those attached to 70mm processes,

in which the originals and mixes were done on full coat 35mm mag film, and the release prints generally had the 6 channels on the film (as shown), all moving at 22.5 ips. Of course, the response was not quite as flat as shown in the above advertising, but was about 30 to 15K +/- 2 dB, like the better tape machines such as Ampex professsional (in fact the 70mm Todd-AO audio system was designed by Ampex). Some newer 70mm theaters using JBL, and possibly newer theaters in general, added the 075 super tweeter, or something like it, good for 7K through 15K.

Even the little multi-media theater hosting "Around San Francisco" used 075s.

Oh, and @anmpr1, the little 075s were called "orange juice squeezers" -- Potatoes and orange juice, what a meal!

 

[Sal1950]

One of the more rare and really amazingly put together units back in the day was the JBL 537-500 acoustic lens system. I heard it called the 'potato masher'.

I'll bet a clean masher and juicer are worth a small fortune on the used market today.
I get sick to my stomach sometimes thinking about the disrespectful manner in which I treated some of the old horn tweeters and compression drivers that went through my hands over the decades.