Neutron HiFi DAC V1 Review

[Haskil]

Tell said:
JCally JM20 for around 15 euro and Poweramp on Android or EQAPO on Windows works more than fine, no need to get a big expensive Neutron doing the same thing


Haskil said:
Parametric?

Ken Tajalli said:
Neutron music player on Android is a mere £8.
It has everything built-in, including PEQ.
What it lacks, are two areas, otherwise it is as good as it gets:
1- Network shared-drive discovery is limited to SMB V1 (UAPP is better)
2- No included streaming services, such as Prime, or Qubuz etc. (UAPP can do Tidal & Qubuz)
I have used it for years, what it is capable of, I have not discovered them all!

Haskil : But not parametric. Only graphic and it is much less precise and less qualitative

You are wrong.

It's definitely possible! I didn't find 'parametric' in the app description. If you can show me, I would appreciate it.

 

[GaryH]

It's definitely possible! I didn't find 'parametric' in the app description. If you can show me, I would appreciate it.

 

[dmitrykos]

I suppose the Qudelix 5K is cheaper with better connectivity, balanced outputs etc. that's the only one I can think of though!

I understand that Q5K is mentioned here as one more portable DAC having an on-board DSP but if you refer to earlier @amirm's review of Qudelix 5K you will find that this device shows much lower audio performance for 3.5mm jack which is not even close to DAC V1's. Not mentioning absence of support of 176.4-384kHz PCM, absence of DSD, and support of up to 24-bit PCM only (no 32-bit Int PCM). Therefore, it is like comparing oranges and apples. DSP functionality of DAC V1 went far either.

The price point (as general comment for a number of preceding posts mentioning price). DAC V1 is a very functional device and it comes at cost, of course. Every additional functionality contributes to the cost of the device because it involves additional components and increasing complexity of production - OLED display, auto-orientation of indication and virtual media buttons by double-tap detection with accelerometer, support for inline-mic and in-line media buttons (requires mic preamp circuit for ADC), dual clocking mode with ultra-low phase noise and very stable 2 SPXOs (which were designed and developed specially for DAC V1 by IC producer), low-profile gold-plated 3.5mm jack, powerful DSP (involving fully-fledged MCU and not just USB controller optimized for interfacing with DAC chip), small size of enclosure (involves 2 PCBs and thus increased cost of production and assembly), rounded enclosure at all angles (you probably noticed that there are no sharp edges), scratch-resistant display (involves Gorilla Glass 3 material), development and support of NConfigurator companion app.

It is not mass product and involves a lot of manual labor, I would say it is an artisan product. For example, rounded enclosure of such small size is a challenge for the producer, to achieve absence of edges and rounded corners it has to be polished manually. The same goes for Gorilla Glass 3 panel, especially with the requirement to have polished edges of a such small item. An etc. This complexity can't be free, we all live in a real world and know it.

One may argue - why do we need all this complexity, just provide USB DAC with excellent audio output? My counter question then - there are many excellent fairly cheap USB DACs already, why do we need one more similarly priced USB DAC with similar excellent audio output but the same "dumb" (as wisely noted by Amir)? It`s just pointless. And that's the idea of DAC V1 - be a very functional, smart, portable device with ultra-precise single-ended audio output without compromise in quality of components and materials.

 

[DanTheMan]

One thing that I haven’t read in a pro/con argument about this device yet is the Ambiophonic implementation. The app can do it, but there’s still the limitations of the app. Maybe it’s too gimmicky in an audio science forum(?), but the way the algorithm works is pretty cool science and an interesting listening experience to say the least. The way I read it, it seems like you might be able to configure it to minimize the downside of the RACE. Anyone want to comment on the Neutron’s implementation? With the dongle, you’d have to ability to Ambiophonic a real stereo. It’s a compelling reason to consider this device in my opinion. Think of the possibilities.

 

[Oso Polar]

What's not to like

In fact, a lot. Not enough power. No balanced output. No controls on the device like play/pause/volume up/volume down/next/previous (a single action only for double tap, that's it). No clip to attach to clothes. These are just very obvious ones.

 

[Oso Polar]

I understand that Q5K is mentioned here as one more portable DAC having an on-board DSP but if you refer to earlier @amirm's review of Qudelix 5K you will find that this device shows much lower audio performance for 3.5mm jack which is not even close to DAC V1's.

Yes, this DAC V1 has better numbers. However, without enough power and without controls the numbers are useless. I'd pay extra for theoretically better sound quality compared to Qudelix-5K but as it is it fails measurably on features, it just can't replace it. Qudelix-5K also has Bluetooth, BTW.

because it involves additional components and increasing complexity of production - OLED display, auto-orientation of indication and virtual media buttons by double-tap detection with accelerometer

Great, you just listed three useless things on which money was spent. Having actual playback controls would have been FAR more useful than the above. And cheaper. Right now it is just a small DAC / preamplifier with DSP, not suitable for portable use or powering headphones (IEMs only).

Don't take me wrong - it is a good device for some use cases but for me this is a device that could have been great but, unfortunately, completely missed the mark. Waiting for V2.

 

[dmitrykos]

No controls on the device like play/pause/volume up/volume down/next/previous (a single action only for double tap, that's it).

Besides support of inline controls which you may have on your headset/earphones DAC V1 also supports media controls by detecting double tap on its top/bottom, or one of its sides and which you can configure for play/pause, next/previous. It can be extended with further fw updates to Volume Up/Down if anyone finds it useful.

No clip to attach to clothes. These are just very obvious ones.

You can pair DAC V1 with its genuine leather case which will allow you to clip to cloth as it has a special metal ring for that.

So not really obvious taking into account absence of balanced output by intentional design

 

[Ken Tajalli]

In fact, a lot. Not enough power. No balanced output. No controls on the device like play/pause/volume up/volume down/next/previous (a single action only for double tap, that's it). No clip to attach to clothes. These are just very obvious ones.

Are you kiddin?
This is not that kind of a device.
Low power, I agree, but not the rest.
Balanced just gives more power, so the two are same.
The rest of your complaints do not apply. This is not a battery operated device.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Yes, this DAC V1 has better numbers. However, without enough power and without controls the numbers are useless. I'd pay extra for theoretically better sound quality compared to Qudelix-5K but as it is it fails measurably on features, it just can't replace it. Qudelix-5K also has Bluetooth, BTW.


Great, you just listed three useless things on which money was spent. Having actual playback controls would have been FAR more useful than the above. And cheaper. Right now it is just a small DAC / preamplifier with DSP, not suitable for portable use or powering headphones (IEMs only).

Don't take me wrong - it is a good device for some use cases but for me this is a device that could have been great but, unfortunately, completely missed the mark. Waiting for V2.

Dear Dmitry
You should know by now that the Q5K is a darling of ASR community. Some of it deserved, some of it not. Q5K should be compared with BTR5 or 7, not a dongle.
Personally, I do not see a point to an attached dongle (by necessity) to have wireless capability. So BT was not needed. If you ever do another with onboard power, then yes, BT would be a must, play stop buttons too, and more power! But until then, don't bother.
This is a great device. But at ASR we are used to great devices for pennies!
At $180, I would have liked more power, which would have necessitated balanced output. For most IEMs, V1 has enough power.

 

[Oso Polar]

Besides support of inline controls which you may have on your headset/earphones

Which I'll not - most good quality cables don't have them.

supports media controls by detecting double tap on its top/bottom, or one of its sides

Which are at best more difficult to use compared to simple buttons and at worst can become a problem (depends on the implementation, e.g. if it'll start detecting false taps in the pocket or under some other conditions).

absence of balanced output by intentional design

I guess it simply doesn't make much sense given luck of power of the internal amplifier, right?

It just seems that lots of efforts (and money) went to make the device pretty instead of making it functional. I can't care less about the display, I'll not be able to see it anyway once device is clipped somewhere around my belt. Or while listening to the music. The only time I want display (e.g. to change or confirm settings) I can use the app on the smartphone, it is mostly required anyway even with this small display.

Touch sensitive device case and all the software to handle these double taps - again, lots of money and effort, very "showy" but less actual usability compared to simple buttons. Check how controls are done on Qudelix - this is how they should be done!

Clip! Such a simple, but required thing for portable use! Here I'll need a case (extra weight, extra size) and... and the case still doesn't have a clip!

IMHO all of the above are very serious faults and bare essentials for portable use.

Now, for in home / in office listening scenarios this device doesn't have enough power to drive full size headphones. Also, Bluetooth (with LDAC) would have been great for both portable and stationary use (plugged into a computer for wired music and simultaneously pared to a phone in order to be able to receive calls or playback something on the phone).

This leaves a stationary scenario as a preamplifier with DSP for speakers, seems that this should work well. Though even this will be somewhat annoying because, I assume, in order to change the settings (or update firmware etc.) the device will need to be unplugged and connected to a smartphone instead, it can't be accessed via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi?

 

[Oso Polar]

This is not that kind of a device.

And what kind of the device this is? Portable - without controls. Desktop - without power. Preamplifier with DSP for speakers - without any kind of remote access.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

And what kind of the device this is? Portable - without controls. Desktop - without power. Preamplifier with DSP for speakers - without any kind of remote access.

Slow down.
This is a Dongle. Q5K is not.
Google what that means, or read my reply to Dmitry.

 

[Oso Polar]

This is a Dongle. Q5K is not.

This device: 50 * 19.9 * 9.6 mm. Q5K: 52.8 x 26.7 x 15.6 mm (including Clip). I don't see that much of a difference. And if you compare it to a simple ~$10 USB dongle then this thing is HUGE. Or what exactly do you mean?

 

[mc.god]

This leaves a stationary scenario as a preamplifier with DSP for speakers, seems that this should work well. Though even this will be somewhat annoying because, I assume, in order to change the settings (or update firmware etc.) the device will need to be unplugged and connected to a smartphone instead, it can't be accessed via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi?

Configurator app is for computers (windows, linux and macos).

 

[Oso Polar]

Configurator app is for computers (windows, linux and macos).

It can't be configured from a smartphone?

 

[AudioSceptic]

Which I'll not - most good quality cables don't have them.

Which are at best more difficult to use compared to simple buttons and at worst can become a problem (depends on the implementation, e.g. if it'll start detecting false taps in the pocket or under some other conditions).

I guess it simply doesn't make much sense given luck of power of the internal amplifier, right?

It just seems that lots of efforts (and money) went to make the device pretty instead of making it functional. I can't care less about the display, I'll not be able to see it anyway once device is clipped somewhere around my belt. Or while listening to the music. The only time I want display (e.g. to change or confirm settings) I can use the app on the smartphone, it is mostly required anyway even with this small display.

Touch sensitive device case and all the software to handle these double taps - again, lots of money and effort, very "showy" but less actual usability compared to simple buttons. Check how controls are done on Qudelix - this is how they should be done!

Clip! Such a simple, but required thing for portable use! Here I'll need a case (extra weight, extra size) and... and the case still doesn't have a clip!

IMHO all of the above are very serious faults and bare essentials for portable use.

Now, for in home / in office listening scenarios this device doesn't have enough power to drive full size headphones. Also, Bluetooth (with LDAC) would have been great for both portable and stationary use (plugged into a computer for wired music and simultaneously pared to a phone in order to be able to receive calls or playback something on the phone).

This leaves a stationary scenario as a preamplifier with DSP for speakers, seems that this should work well. Though even this will be somewhat annoying because, I assume, in order to change the settings (or update firmware etc.) the device will need to be unplugged and connected to a smartphone instead, it can't be accessed via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi?

The Neutron has to be connected to a phone or player by USB cable. Where would the phone be, and how would a clip work with that?

 

[mc.god]

It can't be configured from a smartphone?

I don't know.
From official site:

By default DSP is inactive and DAC V1 is operating in audiophile bit-perfect mode. DSP can be activated and managed via the NConfigurator app.

 

[GaryH]

I understand that Q5K is mentioned here as one more portable DAC having an on-board DSP but if you refer to earlier @amirm's review of Qudelix 5K you will find that this device shows much lower audio performance for 3.5mm jack which is not even close to DAC V1's. Not mentioning absence of support of 176.4-384kHz PCM, absence of DSD, and support of up to 24-bit PCM only (no 32-bit Int PCM).

None of which will make an audible difference. Also note that the Qudelix 5K's actual audio performance with the correct sample rate set is better than in the original review you linked, as can be seen from these updated measurements.

 

[Rednaxela]

Waiting for V2.

Why? Your Q5K meets all your needs right?

 

[Haskil]

View attachment 389677

View attachment 389677

I asked a question about. EQPAO for WIndows... And Ken answered nearby, which mixed everything up But thank you for Neutron.