Neumann KH150

[a|F]

My post above should have included a statement about cost/benefits. DSP is always beneficial.

 

[dickiefunk]

You need a DSP except in very rare cases (big room, extremely professionally treated room...).

As i´ve witten with context here, this is a KH310 in a small room (3x4.7m) - blue: without DSP, without subs and without treatment; red: with treatments, subs and DSP. Without DSP, i´d have big boomy modes at 65Hz and 35Hz. The 65Hz mode alone would make everything practically unlistenable.

View attachment 211627

What you can also see is that the FR in a room (below around 800 Hz at least) has very little to do with the Klippel-measurements.
Also, without a sub i´d have basically no kickbass/punch (70-100Hz) at all.
And, without treatment, i´d have a very messy lower midrange.
You know all this already, of course. But if you keep asking the same questions i keep posting the same answers.

Thanks for posting this. This is very helpful info!

I am even more keen to hear the KH150dsp when it is released. I’m also keen to see if Neumann make any other changes to the KH120mk2 other than just adding the dsp.

 

[FrantzM]

A bit of a Neumann and ... Genelec, and Revel, and JBL, and BMR and etc .... anything that measures thus shall sound great . My purchasing are made in the USA... thus US prices are my reference and I intend to always get the best for my money.
Presently there are two speakers in the circa $2,000.oo that are in term of design and likely performance its true competitors: The JBL 708P and the Genelec 8050C,,,, I know, I know, when most of us think Genelec, we see The Ones... but, but people, there are some other superb speakers in their line-up and the 8050C is likely one of those. The 708p and 8050 , both sport an 8 inches woofer/mid... and are both capable of 120 dB at 1 meter... and a long list of stellar parameters performance... The KH150 better clear those bars and be priced at less...

Peace.

 

[jae]

You need a DSP except in very rare cases (big room, extremely professionally treated room...).

As i´ve witten with context here, this is a KH310 in a small room (3x4.7m) - blue: without DSP, without subs and without treatment; red: with treatments, subs and DSP. Without DSP, i´d have big boomy modes at 65Hz and 35Hz. The 65Hz mode alone would make everything practically unlistenable.

View attachment 211627

What you can also see is that the FR in a room (below around 800 Hz at least) has very little to do with the Klippel-measurements.
Also, without a sub i´d have basically no kickbass/punch (70-100Hz) at all.
And, without treatment, i´d have a very messy lower midrange.
You know all this already, of course. But if you keep asking the same questions i keep posting the same answers.

Nothing stopping him from using his own software DSP with the 310 though, which I assume would be along the lines of a more sensible question/proposition to put forward. In that case there could definitely be a good argument for getting the bigger speaker.

 

[Slyman]

Can anyone tell me (rationally, not sensationally) if the 3ms that DSP monitors add makes a difference when tracking/recording music? I mean, vocals and guitars as recorded with direct monitoring in soundcard, but midi-instruments and samples... Do they get an extra 3 ms which the DAW doesn't account for/automatically adjust?

 

[Lilith]

Can anyone tell me (rationally, not sensationally) if the 3ms that DSP monitors add makes a difference when tracking/recording music? I mean, vocals and guitars as recorded with direct monitoring in soundcard, but midi-instruments and samples... Do they get an extra 3 ms which the DAW doesn't account for/automatically adjust?

If you play your samples with a midi keyboard of course there will be a 3ms delay. But 3ms is not perceivable. More than 10ms is getting a problem when playing live instruments.

 

[Matias]

It adds to the interface lag....

 

[Slyman]

It adds to the interface lag....

Yes but ableton for example measures the interface delay and automatically adjust your midi-recordings to it right? So if the monitor adds another 3 sec, then ableton wouldn't know anything about it and the recordings are then 3 ms too late?

 

[Zaireeka]

You should have an option to fine tune the latency in Ableton. I know that Reaper allows this so probably other DAWs too

 

[somebodyelse]

Can anyone tell me (rationally, not sensationally) if the 3ms that DSP monitors add makes a difference when tracking/recording music? I mean, vocals and guitars as recorded with direct monitoring in soundcard, but midi-instruments and samples... Do they get an extra 3 ms which the DAW doesn't account for/automatically adjust?

It's the same delay as moving the speakers ~1m further away, or headphones vs. speakers at ~1m.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Weird
Until yesterday it was possible to pre-order it on Thomann
Now it's not even on the website

 

[Grotti]

Weird
Until yesterday it was possible to pre-order it on Thomann
Now it's not even on the website

Seems that it can't be ordered anywhere now. What's going on?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Seems that it can't be ordered anywhere now. What's going on?

Maybe they're rethinking the prices after seeing this thread
I just don't see why a 6.5 monitor should cost as much as an 8 inch one

 

[thewas]

I just don't see why a 6.5 monitor should cost as much as an 8 inch one

I see above the 8" direct comparison 8350 being 180€ more expensive?
Also what if the performance of the new 6.5" Neumann is similar to the 8" Genelec one and in some sub-disciplines even better?
Without having detailed measurements such generalising and oversimplifying statements are simply not expedient.

Maybe they're rethinking the prices after seeing this thread

Am sure they will bring now a special PJ5000 edition which will be cheaper and have an aluminium enclosure and beryllium tweeter.

 

[Mario Sanchez]

I would be really, really interested to see if they are still using the same tweeter as the rest of their lineup. Not that I have anything against it, it brings me pure bliss in the KH80DSP - it's just kinda funny how these carefully designed parts can last year after year without seeming to get obsolete in terms of performance. Audio is indeed quite a different world compared to computer parts.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I see above the 8" direct comparison 8350 being 180€ more expensive?
Also what if the performance of the new 6.5" Neumann is similar to the 8" Genelec one and in some sub-disciplines even better?
Without having detailed measurements such generalising and oversimplifying statements are simply not expedient.

Am sure they will bring now a special PJ5000 edition which will be cheaper and have an aluminium enclosure and beryllium tweeter.

I'm just saying Neumann used to be much cheaper than Genelec, now it's not anymore, honestly I don't see the justification for it
Also Aluminum + Beryllium is my dream combo

 

[Rednaxela]

Never heard the phrase ‘raise your prices’ @Pearljam5000?




Edit: just the first result from a quick google search.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Yes but ableton for example measures the interface delay and automatically adjust your midi-recordings to it right? So if the monitor adds another 3 sec, then ableton wouldn't know anything about it and the recordings are then 3 ms too late?

No problem whatsoever.

I use Ableton Live Suite and KH80/KH750 adjusted to the room with MA1 and play guitar and piano through it. The audio interface (Focusrite 4i4) adds 10x more latency and it still isn’t a problem.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Never heard the phrase ‘raise your prices’ @Pearljam5000?




Edit: just the first result from a quick google search.

OK but you're lookong on it from their side
I'm only a customer that wants the best prices I could find and if prices are raised I can't or don't want to afford it

 

[Rednaxela]

Yeah. So you are the customer from point 1.