Neumann KH120 II

[Pearljam5000]

Aluminums

Looking great! I heard that they changed the material of the enclosure, and I'm curious if the build quality in general is still as good as the mk1? I'm looking to upgrade my focal alpha evos to either the 120 mk1 or the mk2. The enclosure of the evos crackles occasionally and it literally sounds like crushing plastic water bottles.

MK1 is aluminum 120II is MDF and plastic , if I'm not wrong

 

[teashea]

Looking great! I heard that they changed the material of the enclosure, and I'm curious if the build quality in general is still as good as the mk1? I'm looking to upgrade my focal alpha evos to either the 120 mk1 or the mk2. The enclosure of the evos crackles occasionally and it literally sounds like crushing plastic water bottles.

The construction of the KH 120 II's appears and feels to be identical to that of the KH 150's I have. The KH 120 II's are lighter than my KH 120's. The all feel equally solid and look exactly the same.

 

[JustCoolin‘]

Are there some brands that perform as well as these that don’t look so cheap and plasticy. The molded Genelecs are even worse. They look like miniature water, softeners or some utility container. You would keep in the garage. I need something. My wife would let me keep in the house.

I have absolutely no idea what someone would like who thinks Neumanns and Genelecs look „cheap and plasticky“, it‘s just too far off my own views. But then I wouldn’t ruin my living room by putting a huge ugly flatscreen TV in there, so what do I know.

 

[bodhi]

I have absolutely no idea what someone would like who thinks Neumanns and Genelecs look „cheap and plasticky“, it‘s just too far off my own views. But then I wouldn’t ruin my living room by putting a huge ugly flatscreen TV in there, so what do I know.

I think you misread the person who you are quoting. He's telling how it IS.

Funny thing about internet discussions is that if that person would have written "I personally don't like the design of Genelecs and Neumanns" then he would have been completely ignored and for good reason. It's just not that interesting thing to say, most of all in Neumann thread.

But when you make a factual statement, well, now people will notice and give you some attention.

Same thing with sound quality debates: (some) people are reluctant to say "I think I hear the Genelecs to have more/less [insert anything] than Neumanns" vs "Genelecs ARE [insert anything] compared with Neumanns". Because the former statement isn't that interesting: some dude thinks he hears something in whatever conditions he listens, so what?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I think you misread the person who you are quoting. He's telling how it IS.

Funny thing about internet discussions is that if that person would have written "I personally don't like the design of Genelecs and Neumanns" then he would have been completely ignored and for good reason. It's just not that interesting thing to say, most of all in Neumann thread.

But when you make a factual statement, well, now people will notice and give you some attention.

Same thing with sound quality debates: (some) people are reluctant to say "I think I hear the Genelecs to have more/less [insert anything] than Neumanns" vs "Genelecs ARE [insert anything] compared with Neumanns". Because the former statement isn't that interesting: some dude thinks he hears something in whatever conditions he listens, so what?

I don't think it's funny, it is so tiring.... At least in this forum quite a lot people are trying to be better than that.

 

[bodhi]

I don't think it's funny, it is so tiring.... At least in this forum quite a lot people are trying to be better than that.

It really makes you think about the value of an opinion that is not based on anything factual. The value is not high.

A good majority of people really hate that about opinions. They think their opinion should count for more than the ones of "some random dudes who probably are not as knowledgeable" or "people from the camp X, what do they know".

It's funny in a sad way that if one pushes strictly fact based, rational discussion, he will not have many friends. And he will not be elected to any position, public or private.

But I agree that this forum is way, way better than any other audio forum I have been in and it's very refreshing.

 

[JustCoolin‘]

I think you misread the person who you are quoting. He's telling how it IS.

Funny thing about internet discussions is that if that person would have written "I personally don't like the design of Genelecs and Neumanns" then he would have been completely ignored and for good reason. It's just not that interesting thing to say, most of all in Neumann thread.

But when you make a factual statement, well, now people will notice and give you some attention.

Same thing with sound quality debates: (some) people are reluctant to say "I think I hear the Genelecs to have more/less [insert anything] than Neumanns" vs "Genelecs ARE [insert anything] compared with Neumanns". Because the former statement isn't that interesting: some dude thinks he hears something in whatever conditions he listens, so what?

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean. How did I misread the comment?

I was actually about to recommend GGNTKT or D&D for similarly performing brands (if for a different budget), but then I realized that I cannot possibly recommend anything because we do not have the same basic design understanding at all. I think the Ones look gorgeous, for example.

 

[bodhi]

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean. How did I misread the comment?

I was actually about to recommend GGNTKT or D&D for similarly performing brands (if for a different budget), but then I realized that I cannot possibly recommend anything because we do not have the same basic design understanding at all. I think the Ones look gorgeous, for example.

It was just starting point for my offtopic, never mind.

To get back to design, I myself like the Genelec design more than Neumann. The Genelecs, white ones especially, blend very well to decour and could fit to many minimalistic modern living room. Neumanns look more like traditional speakers. Not cheap or plasticy but I would bet the WAF is lower in most cases.

 

[JustCoolin‘]

Yeah, I do find the Ones nicer as well, but it is generally rare that I mind "form follows function" design. A loudspeaker is allowed to look like a loudspeaker instead of an expensive piece of furniture, I am absolutely fine with that.

FWIW, my wife likes the uncospicuous and "honest" looks of the Neumanns more than the Audio Physics carpentry job I had before, but then the cherry wood didn't match our oak floors.

 

[jmf11]

I will be comparing the KH 120A's to the KH 120 II's. I will let you know.

@teashea : interested by the outcomes when you will have been able to compare.

JMF

 

[J-B]

I just got the KH 120 II's.
Fantastic speakers. I've had the first version for a while, but sold them when the KH 80's came out. I always preferred the 80's because they just had a better clarity and imaging to them.
Now these same improvements are in the KH 120 II. Together with the deeper low end, MA-1 and more power these are a clear upgrade over the originals for me.

 

[dazzler9000]

Hi all, first post here. I've been reading this thread with interest.

Has anyone listened to both the KH120 ll's and the KH150's? I think I remember someone in this thread or could have been another, that mentioned the sound was almost identical between the two? Like others, I'm keen to buy either the 120's, the 120's and KH 750 or just the KH150's......

Wonder if anyone can give their opinion. For info, mine would be used at my home office and I'd be sat about a metre away.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Hi all, first post here. I've been reading this thread with interest.

Has anyone listened to both the KH120 ll's and the KH150's? I think I remember someone in this thread or could have been another, that mentioned the sound was almost identical between the two? Like others, I'm keen to buy either the 120's, the 120's and KH 750 or just the KH150's......

Wonder if anyone can give their opinion. For info, mine would be used at my home office and I'd be sat about a metre away.

So, you'll have a screen in front of you and the speakers left and right from the display, a metre away. Doesn't the size of the KH150 speak against them in this scenario?

 

[dazzler9000]

So, you'll have a screen in front of you and the speakers left and right from the display, a metre away. Doesn't the size of the KH150 speak against them in this scenario?

Yes, that's correct. I have a 49 inch monitor, so the speakers would be at least 50 inches apart. Yeah, I suspected the 150's would be too much, but I didn't want to spend money on the 120's and wish I'd gone bigger.

 

[teashea]

Hi all, first post here. I've been reading this thread with interest.

Has anyone listened to both the KH120 ll's and the KH150's? I think I remember someone in this thread or could have been another, that mentioned the sound was almost identical between the two? Like others, I'm keen to buy either the 120's, the 120's and KH 750 or just the KH150's......

Wonder if anyone can give their opinion. For info, mine would be used at my home office and I'd be sat about a metre away.

I have KH 120A's, KH 120 II's and KH 150's. To my ears, on the type of music I listen to (pop, indie, country, hip hop, jazz) the KH 120's and KH 150's are indistinguishable. Of course none of these song types have any content below 40 Hz. I did post my thoughts here on ADR, either in the 120 II or the 150 topic. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[dazzler9000]

I have KH 120A's, KH 120 II's and KH 150's. To my ears, on the type of music I listen to (pop, indie, country, hip hop, jazz) the KH 120's and KH 150's are indistinguishable. Of course none of these song types have any content below 40 Hz. I did post my thoughts here on ADR, either in the 120 II or the 150 topic. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks Teashea, I think it was your post I was referring to. I listen to all sorts of music. unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge to know how low each genre/instrument might get to.

It's a tricky one. At least if the 120's don't go low enough, there's always the KH 750, but then would the 150's be better..... Then there's always the 310's . I'm assuming these would be no good from a seating position of 1 metre?

 

[IamJF]

Thanks Teashea, I think it was your post I was referring to. I listen to all sorts of music. unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge to know how low each genre/instrument might get to.

It's a tricky one. At least if the 120's don't go low enough, there's always the KH 750, but then would the 150's be better..... Then there's always the 310's . I'm assuming these would be no good from a seating position of 1 metre?

Go with the 120ii. They are loud enough for your distance. When you lack low frequency extension the 150 will only give you a little - the KH150 gives you the whole spectrum AND you can position it better in the room.

And probably you are happy with the 120ii as they are - then buy good music for that money ;-)

 

[jmf11]

Hi, just to check if my understanding is right abut choosing between models in the range, or what is missing in my way to thing about it.

The specification should be how many SPL at which distance. Dazzler9000 will be at about 1m of the speakers. Let's say that listening is done at 90dB is needed with less than 0.5% THD (more than I would personally need).

From Neumann Website:
- KH80: 90dB Sine wave output with a THD < 0.5 % at 1 m in half space ( 108.8 dB Max. SPL calc. in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz))
- KH120: 95dB Sine wave output with a THD < 0.5 % at 1 m in half space ( 116.8 dB Max. SPL calc. in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz))
- KH150: 95dB Sine wave output with a THD < 0.5 % at 1 m in half space ( 118.7 dB Max. SPL calc. in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz))

KH80 F3: 53Hz
KH120II F3: 44Hz
KH150 F3: 39Hz
KH750 F3: 18Hz

So for that configuration, it should be between KH80 and KH120II if wanting more margins in SPL and THD. The complement with one (or 2) KH750 (or other subwoofer) for the bass. 2xKH80+KH750 or 2xKH120II+KH750 would have more bass extension than 2xKH150 alone.

2xKH80+KH750 bundle is 2500€ vs 2xKH150 is 2960€

Nota: this should be similar method for all Monitors ranges.

Correct ? Missing something ?

JMF

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hi, just to check if my understanding is right abut choosing between models in the range, or what is missing in my way to thing about it.

The specification should be how many SPL at which distance. Dazzler9000 will be at about 1m of the speakers. Let's say that listening is done at 90dB is needed with less than 0.5% THD (more than I would personally need).

From Neumann Website:
- KH80: 90dB Sine wave output with a THD < 0.5 % at 1 m in half space ( 108.8 dB Max. SPL calc. in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz))
- KH120: 95dB Sine wave output with a THD < 0.5 % at 1 m in half space ( 116.8 dB Max. SPL calc. in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz))
- KH150: 95dB Sine wave output with a THD < 0.5 % at 1 m in half space ( 118.7 dB Max. SPL calc. in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz))

KH80 F3: 53Hz
KH120II F3: 44Hz
KH150 F3: 39Hz
KH750 F3: 18Hz

So for that configuration, it should be between KH80 and KH120II if wanting more margins in SPL and THD. The complement with one (or 2) KH750 (or other subwoofer) for the bass. 2xKH80+KH150 or 2xKH120II+KH750 would have more bass extension than 2xKH150 alone.

Nota: this should be similar method for all Monitors ranges.

Correct ? Missing something ?

JMF

Correct.

(Typo: 2xKH80 plus 750)

 

[Blockader]

Aluminums
MK1 is aluminum 120II is MDF and plastic , if I'm not wrong

aren't you bored of talking about enclosure materials 24/7? Really? Is this really what you can contribute to conversations in an audio science server?

MDF bad. : (
Plastic even worse : (((
Paper drivers fragile : (
Metal dome or soft dome?!?!?
Genelec good but what about Neumann???

What matters is the output. You are like the people who pay 10k$ more on dacs because their PSU is shielded against RF and they have DisCreTe output stage. It doesn't matter what decisions a designer took inside an input-output device. (speakers, dacs, amps) As long as it performs well(and we check the output of the system for that), you do not have to care about anything else.

As long as a cabinet does not resonate, it doesn't matter what material the manufacturer used. As long as a material allows complex waveguide shapes without introducing additionl diffractions compared to simulations, that material can't bottleneck the performance of speakers.
Paper used in drivers is not the same with the paper you write on. "Paper" is great because it is light and a woofer has to be as light as possible to maximize efficiency of the system.
Soft Domes start behave like ring radiator drivers in high frequencies hence they start beaming very early around 6-7khz. Bad for controlled directivity.
Genelec & Neumann, both are usually great. Check the directivity index of the speakers within your budget and buy the one which has the smoothest DI and smoothest constant DI behaviour from 200hz to 20khz.

I answered all the questions you are repeating 10 times a day. Can you please move on to asking different and more importantly more performance-relevant questions about speakers? Thank you.