Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[IamJF]

It changes fr (by limiting bass) with increasing loudness (output), so -yes, that would be my definition of dynamic eq.

It's limiting to prevent damage. That's not dynamic EQ - it's limiting.

Dynamic EQ would be to do so during the linear level range to change the sound or pretend louder levels (like Bluetooth speaker do) - they don't do that.

 

[williamr]

If possible get the KH120ii. I also have the KH80 for E-piano but the bigger one gives a more fullrange bass response and is no problem to listen to in 1m distance.
I would only use the KH80 as "office table" speaker with 60cm distance. But add an KH750 ;-)

What is considered an adequate frequency response and dynamic range for proper reproduction of a concert piano? And to try and keep it on topic, would a pair of KH120II work? Or do you need a sub.

 

[Infinit0]

What is considered an adequate frequency response and dynamic range for proper reproduction of a concert piano? And to try and keep it on topic, would a pair of KH120II work? Or do you need a sub.

The lowest note in a piano is 27.5hz so kh120ii Will not be enough you Will lose the last octave
You need the sub in the best scenario

 

[YSC]

that's actually as perfect as it can get for a non-coaxial 2 way design.

What interests me is that although the 8030C is having a less on axis flat response, the directivity error point is rather similar at ~2khz, maybe that's the limit for a dome tweeter with a 5"

 

[Jim777]

Value is pretty good considering you don't even need a DAC.

 

[DearSX]

So this speaker scores a 6.7, does this sound as good as an 8361 or 8351 from lets say 70hz and up? If so, would a well integrated sub bring it up to 8361 levels? Score seems to say so.

 

[SorenTyson]

Any thoughts on using one of these as a center speaker, or even three as lcr? I was looking at the center speaker recommendations list but this one seems better than the sub $1,000 ones on that list.

In our ht we are one or two viewers in a small room so I am not concerned about wide listening angles.

 

[Vuki]

It's limiting to prevent damage. That's not dynamic EQ - it's limiting.

Dynamic EQ would be to do so during the linear level range to change the sound or pretend louder levels (like Bluetooth speaker do) - they don't do that.

It is dynamic eq - any eq that changes fr over level is dynamic eq.
Yes, "bt speaker" (as you call it) uses the same limiting technique to prevent driver damage.

 

[unpluggged]

It is dynamic eq - any eq that changes fr over level is dynamic eq.

EQ is equalization, i.e. making response more linear. Limiting is a different concept.

 

[Vuki]

EQ is equalization, i.e. making response more linear. Limiting is a different concept.

It's just highpass vs level...maybe different concept but same thing

 

[Robbo99999]

So in this case all is good? 80,86 and 96 provided and no need for 106 isn’t it?

I was mainly supporting Amir's reply to someone else that 80dB for 1m is already pretty quiet, but indeed it's good to have a range of SPL distortion measurements. 106dB for this speaker is probably too much for it's bass, but I could maybe imagine 106dB when high passed combined with a subwoofer, in which case Amir could theoretically high pass the speaker and run the distortion test at 106dB for that use case (assuming the speaker can get there).

 

[juliangst]

With a sub, the performance is more or less identical.
But if I were you, I'd stick with the LS50.

I've always the urge to upgrade but I guess you're right

 

[ROOSKIE]

So this speaker scores a 6.7, does this sound as good as an 8361 or 8351 from lets say 70hz and up? If so, would a well integrated sub bring it up to 8361 levels? Score seems to say so.

Yes it certainly could... depending.

If I remeber correctly the score was based on 80db average listening levels in the farfield with 1 speaker.
I believe 80db was chosen for legal reasons, going louder in a clinical setting is harder to pull off.

At moderate to medium loud levels involving 75-85db averages with peaking into the mid 90's of a pair in a medium room, yes they could likley be crossed at 70hrz with high performance.
If you listen loudely in a large space you may want to high pass these at something around 100-120hrz.

It is also possible that at loud levels in a larger room the woofer amp will simply run out of power even if high passed at 120hrz. There is a lot of energy in the upper/mid bass and 145watts to a couple tiny 5.25"(inefficient) transducers likley can't fill a large space loudly before hard clipping and or exceeding the woofers output ability and thermal limits.

All that said these seem very solid for the money and for most people will be enough with subs. Of course this is true of a number of 2 way 5.25"/6.5" based systems.
Combined with subs(and a proper high pass on the monitor) you have a sweet system.

The score ought to taken with a grain of salt.
That said if you are focused on it, a great number of speakers acheive 6+ scores when a little PEQ is used.
Many of them offer even more value than the Neumans in that reguard. Who knows? Does a Polk XT15 +PEQ for $100 a pair on sale in USA =this Neuman @ 6.1/8.6, how about the $200 Infinity R162+PEQ @ 6.6/8.3? Even the Klipsch RP-500m can be PEQ lifted to 6.2/8.7 Heck the SUb $300 ELAC 5.2 and the Emotiva B1+ can reach PEQ'd scores of 6.6/8.6. *
There are more than a couple dozen monitors that with anechoic based PEQ so far that are roughly equal to this.

I don't use the exact PEQ's published but I do enjoy this collection if anyone hasn't yet found it. Here it is ranked from highest scrose with subs included https://www.spinorama.org/scores.html?sort=scoreEQWSUB&reverse=false

If using the score, I beleive the minimum margin of error is +/-0.8 so consider any speaker in the 5.9-7.5 sans sub, 7.7-9.3 with sub, ranges as potentially equal.

*I have heard all of these(the specific ones I listed) by the way (sighted)and they can be made to sound excellent, though I did not find them exactly equal nor the same. (not saying 1 is clearly better or worse, rather they all have some different traits both objectively & subjectively, despite the very high score ratings)

 

[Pearljam5000]

This is probably the perfect Neumann setup

 

[Vuki]

It would be nice if @amirm could do freq. resp. measurements vs level. @napilopez used to do that and it nicely showed effect of dynamic eq for speakers with limited bass output.

 

[Robbo99999]

This is probably the perfect Neumann setupView attachment 298780

Ooo, that does look meaty! Not sure that it's an ideal room layout though, but it's meaty meaty!

 

[DearSX]

Yes it certainly could... depending.

If I remeber correctly the score was based on 80db average listening levels in the farfield with 1 speaker.
I believe 80db was chosen for legal reasons, going louder in a clinical setting is harder to pull off.

At moderate to medium loud levels involving 75-85db averages with peaking into the mid 90's of a pair in a medium room, yes they could likley be crossed at 70hrz with high performance.
If you listen loudely in a large space you may want to high pass these at something around 100-120hrz.

It is also possible that at loud levels in a larger room the woofer amp will simply run out of power even if high passed at 120hrz. There is a lot of energy in the upper/mid bass and 145watts to a couple tiny 5.25"(inefficient) transducers likley can't fill a large space loudly before hard clipping and or exceeding the woofers output ability and thermal limits.

All that said these seem very solid for the money and for most people will be enough with subs. Of course this is true of a number of 2 way 5.25"/6.5" based systems.
Combined with subs(and a proper high pass on the monitor) you have a sweet system.

The score ought to taken with a grain of salt.
That said if you are focused on it, a great number of speakers acheive 6+ scores when a little PEQ is used.
Many of them offer even more value than the Neumans in that reguard. Who knows? Does a Polk XT15 +PEQ for $100 a pair on sale in USA =this Neuman @ 6.1/8.6, how about the $200 Infinity R162+PEQ @ 6.6/8.3? Even the Klipsch RP-500m can be PEQ lifted to 6.2/8.7 Heck the SUb $300 ELAC 5.2 and the Emotiva B1+ can reach PEQ'd scores of 6.6/8.6. *
There are more than a couple dozen monitors that with anechoic based PEQ so far that are roughly equal to this.

I don't use the exact PEQ's published but I do enjoy this collection if anyone hasn't yet found it. Here it is ranked from highest scrose with subs included https://www.spinorama.org/scores.html?sort=scoreEQWSUB&reverse=false

If using the score, I beleive the minimum margin of error is +/-0.8 so consider any speaker in the 5.9-7.5 sans sub, 7.7-9.3 with sub, ranges as potentially equal.

*I have heard all of these(the specific ones I listed) by the way (sighted)and they can be made to sound excellent, though I did not find them exactly equal nor the same. (not saying 1 is clearly better or worse, rather they all have some different traits both objectively & subjectively, despite the very high score ratings)

Thanks for the great in depth answer! I will check out the EQ options for more speakers!

 

[beefkabob]

KH 120 II's measurements (wie erwartet) are as pretty as Sam Howell's first NFL pass

However, 7-series are still the small speaker output champs. Recall that, measured under the same conditions (soundandrecording.de) KH 150 has about the the same bass output capability as the smaller 705P, though per their measurements the Neumann starts to run away from the baby 7-series maybe a bit north of 300Hz. See here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dio-monitor-review.11944/page-23#post-1404514

Neumann rates KH 120 II as ~2.5dB less capable in the bass than KH 150, so one can infer that KH 120 is going to be roughly that much less capable down low than 705P. Compared to the much large 708i/P...there is no comparison.

That said, if you don't need the extra output, Neumann's fit and finish is a step above 7-series, their unit-unit consistency over time of production is demonstrably better, and the frequency response linearity can't be beat. I also love their woofer grille design! I still hope Erin gets his hands on a KH 120 II (or KH 150) because I think his compression measurements add value. I'm curious to see how their linearity holds up with level.


That depends on how loudly you listen and whether you're willing to add a sub. Personally, I think the '120s are a bit large for recreational desktop use, even when used on the same Neumann stands. (Others can differ, and your humble narrator himself may have at one time in his life considered a pair or 17"x10"x12.5" speakers perfectly appropriate for desktop use...) KH 80 is a great size for desktops and also, from experience, superb performance (especially when augmented with a subwoofer).

Now, if by "recreational nearfield" you mean you're setting up a listening chair with speakers on stands a yard away, then go with the bigger ones if the cost delta is acceptable.

I find the 708p output to be adequate but not end game. The 705p sounds wonderful at lower listening levels, but it's a serious cut below the 708p in volume. So then, by speculative deduction, the KH120 IIs are not going to be end game. They're just fantastic for lower listening levels, at which point perhaps why bother?

 

[dananski]

This is probably the perfect Neumann setupView attachment 298780

I think without attention to placement and room treatment that's going to be far from 'perfect'. Certainly some sweet kit though.

 

[ROOSKIE]

These do come in white which for some is better.
Though I think I prefer darker myself @least there is an option.