Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[ReDFoX]

EQ is equalization, i.e. making response more linear. Limiting is a different concept.

Dynamic EQ == compression (if we simplify to a certain degree). Compressor is basically a full range cutting EQ with a certain actuation curve. You can use something like Pro-Q 3 in dynamic mode to do multiband compression

 

[BDE]

Nice, thanks for the review! In comparison to the Genelec 8030C the KH120II will play significantly deeper and we see less bass distortion.
Mh is it a buy or should we wait and see Genelec`s response, the 8030C and 8040B are now outperformed.

 

[unpluggged]

In comparison to the Genelec 8030C

KH 120 II should be compared with Genelec 8330, not with 8030 (whose counterpart is the KH 120 A).

 

[BDE]

KH 120 II should be compared with Genelec 8330, not with 8030 (whose counterpart is the KH 120 A).

Of cause from DSP ect. you are right, but I guess you are not aware that the 8330A measures worse than the 8030?

 

[dananski]

Due to its smaller size, I decided to go down to 80 dBSPL and measure distortion:

There is a resonance at 334 Hz or so. This is seen as a tiny blip in on-axis response as well. It is well below my threshold though so not an issue. And at any rate, is overwhelmed at higher SPLs I normally show:

This is amazing level of performance. Look ag the gap between measured distortion and our 50 dB target. It is massive. At 96 dBSPL we do get more distortion but it is where the speaker response drops rapidly anyway:

Is that definitely a resonance at 334Hz? It doesn't correspond to the resonances visible in the decay graph or driver components graph, and the absolute level of distortion doesn't grow at that point with SPL, except at 96 dBSPL where it's dwarfed by broader distortion that is actually higher on either side.

I don't know if the Klippel would pick it up this way but I would say it looks more like a constant 1KHz tone was playing at the same time (3rd harmonic of ~334Hz). Or a small range of noise peaking around that frequency.

 

[Infinit0]

This is probably the perfect Neumann setupView attachment 298780

hell yeah, I want that but in one year with the KH310II

 

[IamJF]

What is considered an adequate frequency response and dynamic range for proper reproduction of a concert piano? And to try and keep it on topic, would a pair of KH120II work? Or do you need a sub.

There is quite a difference between KH80 and KH120ii on the Nord stage piano I have - the 80s are not enough to reproduce a concert piano. I would be happy with KH120ii for that use case but they fall in theory a little short for the lowest keys (but level is also already lower there from a real piano) and I'm not sure if they can follow the real dynamics of a big piano. So for a concert hall, to reproduce a piano sound in original loudness (not louder), I would still go with bigger speakers. For my personal use I would be happy. If you want to be save get KH150s.

But be careful - with the KH80 I already hear that the reverb can not compete with highes quality studio reverbs and some "artefacts" in tone generation. Just to have some fun with the instrument you could use more "nice" speakers.

For my 6 year old daughter to learn piano the KH80s are fine and I got permission for them in the living room ... so sometimes decisions have more parameters as perfect reproduction

 

[HQY]

as an user of 120ii, it's good to see the review and people's discussion. thanks to amirm.

 

[stemag]

Do you recommend these KH120 II for listening at a distance of 2.5-3 metres (8-10 feet) ?

 

[Multicore]

Game set match? No reason to get the 708p anymore?

it sure looks that way from the measurements. but it's still hard to come to grips with replacing an 8" system (which we used to understand as necessary for something decent) with a 5.5". kinda amazing, isn't it?

 

[HQY]

Do you recommend these KH120 II for listening at a distance of 2.5-3 metres (8-10 feet) ?

I would prefer 150 over 120ii.

 

[Multicore]

Do you recommend these KH120 II for listening at a distance of 2.5-3 metres (8-10 feet) ?

i would be very happy to use them for that. but it depends on your spl and bass extension requirements. if it meets those then i can't see why not.

 

[HQY]

People say 5.5” woofer but actually it’s 5.25”.

 

[Doodski]

I think I may have said this before when I've seen your headphone & speaker EQ's, but are you certain that you're not gonna worsen/damage your hearing by boosting areas at the limit of your hearing to such extreme levels? I'd be concerned about that, plus I don't think there's a good argument for compensating for age related hearing loss in headphones & speakers, not unless you use a hearing aid (at which point you'd remove your hearing aid when compensating through the headphones or speaker) - simply because we normalise what our normal hearing is in our day to day lives, it's not necessary to compensate for age related hearing loss in music.

I went for coffee and a walk and thought about what you say and I've decided to take your advice and get a Dr appointment setup requesting a referral to a hearing specialist to see if my hearing is not good. Thanks for the prodding and suggestions. I'm reallly interested to see what happens.

 

[Music707]

Do you recommend these KH120 II for listening at a distance of 2.5-3 metres (8-10 feet) ?

From the KH 120 II / KH 150 manual:

 

[PeteL]

So for a concert hall, to reproduce a piano sound in original loudness (not louder), I would still go with bigger speakers.

Really? Thanks for pointing out that they are not appropriate for a concert hall. Not for a piano, not for a flute neither.

 

[Pearljam5000]

KH120II + a sub
or KH150 no sub ?

 

[HQY]

KH120II + a sub
or KH150 no sub ?

I would prefer 120/sub for my needs.

 

[375HP2482]

I‘m considering to get new speakers for my desk setup.
Are these worth the premium over KH80 if I already have a sub?
And can I apply a high pass filter in the Neumann app without needing an external DSP?

If you have a sub and a little EQ, the JBL Stage A-130 will fill the bill as well:

Neumann KH 120 II
SCORE: 6.7
SCORE w/ sub: 8.5

JBL Stage A-130
EQ Score: 6.29
with sub: 8.54

The Neumann score should also indicate "EQ Score" as it likely uses internal EQ and steep DSP crossover.

 

[IamJF]

I did some measurements to confirm the resonance at low levels. Just a quick setup, speaker at listening position, mic at 50cm, level calibrated at 1m distance. No gating - so there is all the room influence included.

My measurements look different. Not the steep resonance at 330Hz but still, there is a leftover at 400-500Hz at low levels. When going even lower in level (70dBSpl and less) THD sinks in the noise floor (of the measurement mic).

There is also a little hump in the THD % measurement, but by far not what amirm measured.

THD at 80dBSpl from H2 and H3:

I first thought about noise artefacts but it probably isn't. Not sure what's going on.


@amirm - can you repeat your 80dBSpl measurement, probably with a different speaker? What does Neumann say to your data? And can you show a logarithmic THD scale - with these low distortion speakers the linear scale lacks information. And humans don't work linear - we are logarithmic people

So I can not confirm the spike at 330Hz from these measurements but there is probably some small effect going on here. But at 0,2% THD I would not overestimate this effect.