Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[HarmonicTHD]

Oh for sure, buying these without M1A seems like a fools errand really, especially when you have all those capabilities left on the table. It's amazing how you have people spending many thousands on speakers in the Hi-fi scene, when these, £2500 a pair and the measurements that are like the holy grail of measurements, absolutely astonishing. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I like an EQ curve, but it's nice to have a flat base on which to tailor that. 90% of the time though I love the flat level sound. In audiophile circles people like to dismiss flat frequency response, it's amazing how they miss the advantages of such even if they then use an EQ afterwards.

I'd never really looked at monitors much until very recently, my only experience of pro gear was PA type stuff, so was something that kind of kept me from looking to be honest, despite monitors and PA being massively different, I just lumped all pro stuff together.

Has anyone else here made the same decision I wonder? Seems like the perfect system. It's just finding a source that has CD and pre-amp in one box, so far the Quad Arterra Play + seems to be about the best solution as has XLR output.

I use KH80, 750 and MA1 for my office at ca 1m listening distance. It’s great.

 

[Count Arthur]

Oh for sure, buying these without M1A seems like a fools errand really, especially when you have all those capabilities left on the table.

You can achieve similar results with other, non proprietary, measuring equipment and EQ software. On the down side, it's probably more involved, on the up side, you're not tied to the Neumann echo-system and can mix and match brands.

 

[Ze Frog]

You can achieve similar results with other, non proprietary, measuring equipment and EQ software. On the down side, it's probably more involved, on the up side, you're not tied to the Neumann echo-system and can mix and match brands.

I'm quite happy being tied to it to be honest, idea of going this route is my final system. Although I can see why that's probably all n issue for many people.

 

[unpluggged]

They should bundle it with speakers like KH150 anyways in my opinion.

I don't think they must, but they actually did run a promo until the 31st of December that bundled a free MA 1 with a pair of both KH 120 II and KH 150.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I'm quite happy being tied to it to be honest, idea of going this route is my final system. Although I can see why that's probably all n issue for many people.

Yes. That was my thinking too. Especially as 200 bucks compared to the costs of the speakers for me are not what I would call “tied in”. Plus one can still sell it once the system is setup, but again, I assume if you are thinking about this price range a hundred bucks more or less won’t break the bank.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I don't think they must, but they actually did run a promo until the 31st of December that bundled a free MA 1 with a pair of both KH 120 II and KH 150.

Remember you need to also get an Audiointerface capable of 48V phantom power (see the MA1 webpage). Maybe you have one already as I didn’t follow all your previous posts.

 

[unpluggged]

Remember you need to also get an Audiointerface capable of 48V phantom power (see the MA1 webpage). Maybe you have one already as I don’t follow all your previous posts.

You are right, the MA 1 does not include an interface to begin with. However, most of Neumann monitors users are assumed to already have an audio interface in the first place, so I can't blame Neumann for going with an analog microphone.

P.S. Still waiting for my MA 1 and the UCX II to be picked up for delivery by the postal service at last after having been released from the customs

 

[HarmonicTHD]

You are right, the MA 1 does not include an interface to begin with. However, most of Neumann monitors users are assumed to already have an audio interface in the first place, so I can't blame Neumann for going with an analog microphone.

P.S. Still waiting for my MA 1 and the UCX II to be picked up for delivery by the postal service at last after having been released from the customs

Oh I am not blaming them. First they cater to professional usually and secondly they are very transparent on their website about it (provided people read it ;-)).

 

[Ze Frog]

When can we expect a learning lesson on tubes?

Do you mean this as a personal taste or there are some physical limitations in play here?
Looking at reviews, i have hard time understanding what would prevent the use of those small box crazy monitors as a full fledge living room system .
Is it a problem of SPL output ?
Lost of larger column type speakers have very similar width and tweeter , so i'd guess the mid and mid bass might not be sufficient ? surely the region covered by the tweeter would behave similarly ?

Tubes can certainly sound really special,but is best not to measure for the most part as the measurements are rarely flattering.

Plus thanks to the war and sanctions on Russia, good luck getting half decent tubes these days, especially at reasonable cost, sadly. A lot of what is left in the supply chain is the stuff that was kind of kept aside due to not being the greatest batches. A lot of decent tube suppliers would test batches and only accept those that met the mark. Now though it's a case of whatever they can get hold of, although one or two very connected places may still have a better chance still. Sad thing is, after this ends I can't see the flow of tubes suddenly coming back either so soon.

Some decent Chinese stuff, Shunguang's etc, but quality can slip here and there, so you could have to bin a few to find a matched quad etc.

 

[Count Arthur]

You are right, the MA 1 does not include an interface to begin with. However, most of Neumann monitors users are assumed to already have an audio interface in the first place, so I can't blame Neumann for going with an analog microphone.

P.S. Still waiting for my MA 1 and the UCX II to be picked up for delivery by the postal service at last after having been released from the customs

I already had a UMIK-1, USB microphone, but as a home user, that would be a deal breaker for me.

Not only is the MA1 about twice the price of the UMIK-1 to start with, but I would have to spend another ~£100.00 on an audio interface, for which I would have no use, other than using the MA1.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I already had a UMIK-1 USB microphone, but as a home user, that would be a deal breaker for me.

View attachment 340223

Not only is the MA1 about twice the price of the UMIK-1 to start with, but I would have to spend another ~£100.00 on an audio interface, for which I would have no use, other than using the MA1.

GLM is much superior
I don't understand why they didn't do something similar

 

[Count Arthur]

GLM is much superior
I don't understand why they didn't do something similar

It's still more expensive than the UMIK, but at least it doesn't need any additional equipment.

 

[unpluggged]

as a home user

There are audio interfaces targeted at home users, too. That's if you are bothering with pro audio gear in the first place.

GLM is much superior

How is it exactly "much superior"? GLM is a proprietary RS-485-based interface that requires you to use their network adapter; you cannot connect SAM speakers directly to LAN and you cannot control them using other software. OTOH, the Neumann monitors use Ethernet connections with standard IPv6 protocol and their control protocol (the Sennheiser Soudn Control Protocol) is published and there is third-party software that allows you to control Neumann monitors without buying any additional hardware or software licenses, such as these tools:

GitHub - schwinn/khtool: Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers

Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers - schwinn/khtool

github.com

GitHub - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc: Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python

Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc

github.com

 

[Pearljam5000]

There are audio interfaces targeted at home users, too. That's if you are bothering with pro audio gear in the first place.


How is it exactly "much superior"? GLM is a proprietary RS-485-based interface that requires you to use their network adapter; you cannot connect SAM speakers directly to LAN and you cannot control them using other software. OTOH, the Neumann monitors use Ethernet connections with standard IPv6 protocol and their control protocol (the Sennheiser Soudn Control Protocol) is published and there is third-party software that allows you to control Neumann monitors without buying any additional hardware or software licenses, such as these tools:

GitHub - schwinn/khtool: Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers

Tool to query or change settings of Neumann KH DSP speakers - schwinn/khtool

github.com

GitHub - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc: Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python

Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol Client Implementation for Python - jj-wohlgemuth/pyssc

github.com

It's superior by it's ease of use
I don't want to go through all of this trouble and GLM feels much easier to use and is more polished

 

[SlothRock]

It's superior by it's ease of use
I don't want to go through all of this trouble and GLM feels much easier to use and is more polished

You set it once and forget about until you change their position on your desk or move somewhere. So....if you're staying put for awhile it's likely you set it and its good for years to come. Really not a big deal as far as "ease of use"

 

[Count Arthur]

There are audio interfaces targeted at home users, too. That's if you are bothering with pro audio gear in the first place.

Granted, but it's still an additional piece of kit I need to buy, on top of an already more expensive solution. And as SlothRock has pointed out, it's not something you use often.

OTOH, the Neumann monitors use Ethernet connections with standard IPv6 protocol and their control protocol (the Sennheiser Soudn Control Protocol) is published and there is third-party software that allows you to control Neumann monitors without buying any additional hardware or software licenses, such as these tools:

I wondered whether it would be possible to upload the EQ settings to the monitors without using the MA1 hardware/software. Unfortunately, my monitors are connected via a Dynaudio sub, which kind of scuppers that idea.

 

[unpluggged]

I wondered whether it would be possible to upload the EQ settings to the monitors without using the MA1 hardware/software.

Yes:

Contributors welcome! Open Source Python Client for Sennheiser Sound Control Protocol (SSC)

Disclaimer: I am marked as a "manufacturer" in this Forum because I happen to work for a Pro Audio Company. This project however is a private project of mine. None of the things I write in this thread or in the repository represent opinions or statements other than my own. I am looking for...

audiosciencereview.com

Too bad we don't have a comprehensive guide or a GUI yet for these tools.

 

[Waxx]

For the few Neumann setups i installed, most actually prefered to use a miniDSP, as it's an all in one device that can also be used as preamp. MA1 is not bad at all, but in practical use not really fit for hifi (at least for not so technical people). An minidsp flex, once set up (what i did mostly) it's very easy to use and more or less set and forget.

I have no experience with GLM, but if you need special network devices and so, it's probally even worse than MA1 from consumer perspective. But i did never install Genelec setups, so ...

 

[holdingpants01]

How is it exactly "much superior"? GLM is a proprietary RS-485-based interface that requires you to use their network adapter; you cannot connect SAM speakers directly to LAN and you cannot control them using other software.

You don't need any adapter to connect as many speakers as you want and you can use any MIDI software you want for every function, as it supports this protocol. You can also switch between any mode and calibration on the fly, so keeping them always connected is pretty good idea - contrary to Neumanns where AFAIK you can't even quickly bypass the calibration, control and recall the volume, change the calibration from stereo to surround or atmos, bypass the sub, skip bass management or do anything really with their supported app. I guess you can hack around some of it but I prefer supported software and functionality. As far as factory software goes it's really no contest and with the addition of Genelec 9320A it's not even close. There's a reason the number 1 question come up when someone buys dsp Neumanns and want to use digital connection, which is: how to control the volume? If their source doesn't allow that they're out of luck

 

[IamJF]

The quality of correction is top notch with MA1! Genelec has way more simple EQing in their program and you need the extra unit which is more expensive as MA1. And you can use the MA1 mic as normal measurement microphone with other software, you even can download the correction files for it! (that alone makes the price ok)
When buying these speakers and you can't afford a 100 bucks interface ... sorry that's simply part of the costs for the system. As most users already have microphone inputs in their studio ;-) that's not really an issue.

GLM software is way better connected and has tools for remote control and surround setups. Neumann is lacking there and definitely behind! And they are slow in catching up ... but there is at least some movement. A good remote control is definitely missing!

I did a few setups and trials with KH750+KH80, KH80 and KH120ii and never had a problem with the software. It's limited in functionality, they should give way more options and maybe a control pannel for level/muting/presets etc.
BUT - the quality of the correction is VERY good! Even with a pair of KH80 you get reliable results in not so good rooms. As it not only corrects frequency response but also phase/impulse response (at least they tell so) it's not just some EQ settings as you could do with a MiniDSP. Especially for a HiFi user with not to much KnowHow it would be impossible to dial in a "perfect" correction - and you still need a measurement microphone and interface and need to learn REW. And it's way more expensive. I don't see how this should be simpler?

Volume control with digital connection - I use of course my audio interface as all professional users will do (after all it's not aimed for the HiFi market - they probably should bring a range for that?). But there are fairly cheap devices which can do that job, like this one: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0CDX16FWT/
Many use a WiiM with it and there are for sure more expensive and more fancy preamps available.