Need a good amplifier for my ELAC FS247 stereo floor speakers. Need warm and full sound at low volume.

[Pflamingo]

Hi guys

I currently use a Cambridge audio CXA60 to drive my FS247 ELAC speakers.
But I've always felt that the sound is flat and could open up more. I only listen at around 20-25% of the volume. It's only when I dial the volume way higher, that the sound really shines.

I would like a warmer and fuller sound at low volume, with clarity and strong imaging.

Should I be pairing the speakers with a different amplifier or perhaps a stronger one? What would you guys suggest?

Thanks
Philip

 

[staticV3]

It's only when I dial the volume way higher, that the sound really shines.

I would like a warmer and fuller sound at low volume, with clarity and strong imaging.

Should I be pairing the speakers with a different amplifier?

No

or perhaps a stronger one?

No

What would you guys suggest?

Look up equal loudness contours and use EQ to compensate accordingly.

 

[fpitas]

Your ears respond differently at very low volumes. Midrange is accentuated at the cost of bass and treble. Probably left over from cave days when a faint voice was the important thing to hear.

 

[JayGilb]

Too bad loudness contour controls are rarely implemented these days.

 

[Pflamingo]

No


No


Look up equal loudness contours and use EQ to compensate accordingly.

What do you mean? Sorry, need more guidance as to what you are recommending

 

[Pflamingo]

Too bad loudness contour controls are rarely implemented these days.

Any suggestions then?

 

[sejarzo]

What do you mean? Sorry, need more guidance as to what you are recommending

Lots of good information is available if you use the search function.

Perception of Sound Loudness/Dynamic Range

This is a topic that I expect some of the members in the forum who are in the medical field to also know. If so, feel free to contribute :). The outer ear is designed to collect and magnify the mid-range frequencies. This is the reason the equal loudness graphs of Fletcher Munson show much...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[staticV3]

What do you mean? Sorry, need more guidance as to what you are recommending

A speaker's tonality changes with volume.
What sounds lively and dynamic at high to normal volumes, sounds lifeless and dull at low volumes. That's just how the human ear works.
Buying a new Amp won't magically get rid of this phenomenon.

I recommend you use EQ to compensate for this, so that the speaker sounds as dynamic playing quiet, as it does playing loud (within reason of course).

To do this, ISO226 tells us to boost bass, reduce lower treble a little, and increase upper treble:

 

[Pflamingo]

A speaker's tonality changes with volume.
What sounds lively and dynamic at high to normal volumes, sounds lifeless and dull at low volumes. That's just how the human ear works.
Buying a new Amp won't magically get rid of this phenomenon.

I recommend you use EQ to compensate for this, so that the speaker sounds as dynamic playing quiet, as it does playing loud (within reason of course).

To do this, ISO226 tells us to boost bass, reduce lower treble a little, and increase upper treble:
View attachment 274093

How can I use EQ settings on the CXA60, with limited options?
I am using a music streamer through my phone via Bluetooth and have an iFI audio zen air blue connected to the CXA60

 

[Joe Smith]

Either using software EQ or put something like a Schiit Loki or Lokius for analog adjustment...shame that the nice amp you have does not have any built-in tonality control? At the levels I play most music at, I often use a one-click bass and treble boost, and that's all I need or want... The old "Loudness" tone adjust usually worked fine, too.

Onkyo's one button "selective tone control" was one of the best simple implementations...don't know what curve they used, but it just sounded good most of the time...

 

[DVDdoug]

What do you mean? Sorry, need more guidance as to what you are recommending

When you turn-down the volume it sounds like the bass is turned-down even more.

A speaker's tonality changes with volume....

It's not the speaker.

That's just how the human ear works.

Right... It's the ear/brain. ...You knew that...

In the "old days" most stereo receivers had a Loudness Compensation switch. Usually it was just marked "loudness" and most people didn't really understand what it was doing. When you were listening at low (or "lowish") levels and switched-on "loudness" the bass was boosted and it sounded louder. It was tied-into the volume control knob/circuit and it had less effect as you turned-up the volume.

I suppose the "flaw" was that it didn't really know how "loud" the signal was or how sensitive your speakers were so it didn't know how loud you were listening. It only knew the position of the volume control knob.

Some car stereos had it, and I THINK some factory car stereos/radios had it built-in without a switch to turn it off,

 

[JayGilb]

Either using software EQ or put something like a Schiit Loki or Lokius for analog adjustment...shame that the nice amp you have does not have any built-in tonality control? At the levels I play most music at, I often use a one-click bass and treble boost, and that's all I need or want... The old "Loudness" tone adjust usually worked fine, too.

Onkyo's one button "selective tone control" was one of the best simple implementations...don't know what curve they used, but it just sounded good most of the time...

His amp does have basic bass/treble cut/boost.

 

[Pflamingo]

His amp does have basic bass/treble cut/boost.

Yes I can adjust bass and treble and also have a direct button. But it only gives me so much in terms of sound imaging, as to what I'm searching for.

 

[Purité Audio]

Imaging is down to your speakers, room and how they are positioned.
Keith

 

[Head_Unit]

FS247 ELAC

These look like they are quite extended (post #4). So you have some other problem.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...carina-fs-247-4-and-wharfedale-evo-4-4.16697/
The electrical engineer part of my brain jumps on @staticV3's bandwagon and say "don't start thrashing around depleting your wallet buying amps. My friend's experience, wherein it turned out that a huge -10 dB hole between 50-130 Hz explained why he had "no bass" at lower volumes, urges you to MEASURE your response! Even with a spectrum analyzer app or something for a start.

 

[Head_Unit]

...a Loudness Compensation switch...tied-into the volume control knob/circuit and it had less effect as you turned-up the volume...the "flaw" was that it didn't really know how "loud" the signal was or how sensitive your speakers were so it didn't know how loud you were listening...Some car stereos had it, and I THINK some factory car stereos/radios had it built-in without a switch to turn it off,

Mmm I always thought those were just a fixed boost and not tied into the volume knob at all. Either way yes it's not calibrated, hence Buchardt's calibratable version on his active speakers, and Yamaha's clever variable version (which sadly disappears as you go up their product lines). I worked in automotive OEM and yes more sophisticated setups have speed-sensitive volume (sometimes adjustable in a setup menu) and variable loudness, since the road noise affects/corrupts your hearing perception.

 

[Pflamingo]

Could you guys recommend an easy-to-use way of measuring room correction, as you describe? What do I need to purchase in order to measure, and then what do i need to get the measured response 'attached' permanently to my amplifier?
Sorry, I'm not used to the audiophile jargon or how to do this.

 

[staticV3]

What do I need to purchase in order to measure

A miniDSP UMIK-1

and then what do i need to get the measured response 'attached' permanently to my amplifier

That depends on how you're currently feeding music into the CXA60.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Welcome. Perhaps not the answer you were looking for:
I tend to think these days that any Audio system should start with an AVR, even if you're not considering Multichannel. AVRs are the Swiss Knife of Audio.
The solution would be a Denon AVR with Audyssey's "Dynamic EQ". I don't know exactly which Denon models have that feature, but I am certain the AVR-X3700 and over (3800, 4700, etc...) have it.
Variable loudness as implemented by Audyssey MultEQ is one of the best around.


Peace.

 

[Brofeld]

The solution would be a Denon AVR with Audyssey's "Dynamic EQ".

Came here to say the same thing. I recently bought a Denon AVR with Dynamic EQ, and listening at low volumes is so much more fun now!