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My thoughts on Cable design.

Colin James Wonfor

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https://seca.freeforums.net/thread/314/emc-rfi-on-cables

To get you started here is the TQ UB spec.​
Cable Specification​
Resistance/Metre/Pair 18mΩ​
Inductance/Metre/Pair (common mode) 25nH​
Capacitance/Metre Between Pairs 2nF​
Capacitance/Metre Between Conducting Pairs 4pF​
Maximum Continues Current 11Amps​
Breakdown Voltage/Metre Between Pairs >2500VAC​
Breakdown Voltage/Metre Between Conducting Pairs >5000VAC​
Maximum Working Temperature 150°C​
Recommended Frequency Range (DC) 10Hz – 250KHz​
Recommended Maximum Power Amp Load @ 8Ω 450WRMS​
Recommended Maximum Power Amp Load @ 4Ω 950WRMS​
Lose in Cable @ 11Amps/Metre 2.7Wmax​
Cable Width max 13mm​
Cable Thickness max 1.7mm​
Conductors are Litz Inductively matched to length each pair.​
At 60 Hz, the skin depth of a copper wire is about 8 mm. At 60 kHz, the skin depth of copper is about 0.254 mm. At 6 MHz, the skin depth is about 25.4 µm. Round conductors larger than a few skin depths don't conduct much current near their axis, so that material isn't used effectively. This causes a lose in detail and due to differences in Power/Frequency can cause phase changes producing error in depth of sound. Ordinary twisted conductor do not act like Litz as they conduct on there un-insulated surface to produce a solid conduct, only allowing the possibility to conduct more current as size increases, thus giving a larger diameter and solving the problem with brute force not science or thought. And large diameter wire increases the cost of raw materials and the wastes of money.​
Please also note as the diameter increases and the gap stay relatively small the capacitance also is increasing reducing the bandwidth and having the opposite response to your need, not counting the fact of the wasted power to charge and discharge this capacitor as the amplifier swing its output voltage following the audio, this often cause another undesirable effect the amplifier become unstable and burnout in the worst case scenario.​
  1. Without scribbles download from above.
Electromagnetic shielding is common place and is used in signal and power cables. And will help to reduce EMC and RFI and is normally only useful from about 100KHz and above. It has little or no effect on magnetic interference as produced by electro mechanical devices such as motors, electromechanical transducers and transformers devices.
Magnetic shield using Metal shields for reducing radiated magnet field and magnet field susceptibility has been known about for many years and is used in many common place items.
A Magnetic shielded power cable will radiated about 80% less magnetic flux field than an unshielded power cable.
EWA have combine the EMC shield or Faraday cage with magnetic shielding to reduce radiated field and reduce the risk to the cable susceptibility to outside interference over a bigger bandwidth.
And by using a flexible magnetic materials make the cable much more useful than is presently available at the time of writing this document.

Note:- Fe,Ni,Co plastic mix is patented by me for TQ, unfortunately these material when used with plastic like PVC can a do destroy the tool use to draw the cable and make it very brittle and unusable.
EWA however have developed a complex compound not using these Metals to produce a magnetic plastic mix. But this also put considerable wear on the tools needed to draw the cable, so with a costly tool we have achieved what I wanted to do with TQ but with the added advantage of controlling the maximum flux density.
Fig 1:01
Below shows the magnetic fields concentrically around the conductor.

Consider a current in a straight wire of infinite length.
The magnetic field lines are concentric circles in a planes perpendicular to the wire.
The magnitude of the magnetic field at distance R from the centre of the wire is:-
B =
The magnetic field strength is proportional to the current and inversely proportional to the distance from the centre of the conductor.
The magnetic field vector in tangential to the circular magnetic field lines and directed according to Fleming’s Right Hand Rule.



Faraday shielding as shown above will only work with radiated field and not magnetic shielding.
To calculate the size of the faraday shield material the material used could be copper, tin plated copper silver, silver plated copper or any good conductor.
Thus choice of the material depends on the whole environment conditions as with the insulation materials.
As can be seen the shield is woven braided conductor.
Coverage should not be lower than 85%, the angle of the braid should be 20° to 40° for a diameter of 15.2mm and up to and beyond 40°for diameter above 15.2mm.
Percentage coverage K can be calculated from the following
K= (2F-F2)*100
F=NPd/Sin a
A = Tan-1(2?(D+2d)P/C)
F= fill space, K=Percentage cover,N=Number of wires per carrier.P=pick/inch, d=dia of braid wire,a= angle of braid,D= dia of cable under shield, C=number of carriers.
Shield effectiveness is expressed in dB for a single shield of copper it is about 40dB at 85% coverage. And is about 45dB for 90% but using two layer of shield we can get as high as 60dB. And with the EWA interconnect cables we do this.

Magnetic Shielding
As can be seen from the above currents in two wires can attract or repel dependant on the direction of current flow with respect of each other.
With variable currents this can change constantly causing micro-phonic noise and induced current absorption and distortion of the signal. The other problem here as a signal cable within a Faraday shielded cable this will cause fluctuations in capacitance with the movement of the conductor relative to the shield and thus change the impedance of the cable and it frequency bandwidth produce time relative distortion linked to amplitude of that signal AM and FM modulation and phase angle errors.
This signal “Wire Modulation” can be caused by internal and external sources. With a magnetic shield the effect is reduced with added bonuses.
But using current designs of material in common use the cable is non flexible and fixed and very costly and making it not possible to be used in all applicable applications.
Solution to Magnetic Shielding
By using a flexible material heavily loaded with magnetic dust or particles, we have reduced the effects of radiated and absorption of magnetic interference on signal and power cables.
Here is one construction solution to this problem below.


As can be seen from the above diagram the magnet field is held close and within the magnetic material, thus reduces internal and external influence of the magnetic field increase the information accuracy.
Simulation of this effect on signal are shown below.
A one metre length of cable is shown above, the Magnetic coupling without magnetic shielding and a coupling factor to illustrate this.

This is a 20KHz sin wave the green trace is the input and the blue is the output.
Now the same simulation was also done on a magnetic shielded cable.
Due to the increased coupling the inductor value also increase.

As can be seen the amplitude and phase now follow the input much closer.

The outer insulation (red), filler insulation (blue), Faraday shield (light blue), filler insulation (blue), Magnetic flexible shield (red), filler mixed (blue) with three conductors (labelled) .
This combination performs as common mode choke and RFI,EMC and magnetic field shield.
This also could be used with paired cable in applications such as loud speaker cables.

This will reduce magnetic radiation and interference to other electronic or electrical installations.
The magnetic coupling also helps the signal with common mode rejection to the source and load.
Flexible Magnetics and Digital
Flexible Magnetic Shielded Cables in the Use with secured computer data transfer.
On Keyboards reduce the detection of passwords, secure information etc.
On USB cables to eliminate the coupling and stealing of data from the USB cable normal radiation from RFI.
The reduction of RFI from the power cables to computer systems.
Ethernet cables, Screen data cables i.e. HDMI etc

Forced Shielding

With the Shield coil deactivated the signal within the magnetic shield will have a limited protection, but by energizing the coil with DC or AC will increase the magnetic flux in 90° to the induced magnetic field induced by the signal. This will restrict the possible detection of the signal due to radiation EMC, RFI.


With the Coil Shield on stray magnetic field will be absorbed.

Cross section of flexible magnetic cable magnet sheild.

Effective area of magnet path Ae= (Σƒ/A)/( Σƒ/A²)
A= area will depend on the length of the magnetic shield and the diameter and the wall thickness.
The permeability will depend on the concentration of the magnet dust or particles in both planes at 90° to each along the length and around the toridal.
µ= (1/µ0)x(B/H) so the inductance factor will give L= µ · c ·N² · 10⁻⁹
In most case the turns will only be 1
Al = L/N² in nH

With Active Magnetic Shield
The magnetic length will depend on the concentration of the magnet dust or particles and the length of the flexible magnetic material and it permeability µ.
But must be considered an open ended rod of magnetic material.
The magnetic saturation must also be considered this will be controlled by the coil, turns and current in the coil as Amp/Turns and the length.



Test Results Using A Now Standard Cable and Shielded EWA Cable
The test equipment used:-
Oscilloscope/Spectrum Analyzer Vellerman PCSGU250
EWA Balance Amplifier, Z = 100, G= 100, BW DC – 15MHz
EWA Rotating Magnet.
Set Up
The Unit under test was first tested to see the effects of the rotating magnetic field over the inner conductor. One end was plugged into the non inverting input and the other into the inverting input with the Faraday shield connected to ground.
With a distance set for all test at 100mm from the centre of the rotating magnet.








The first test was using the standard cable.
Has can be seen the signal detected was 0.79mV RMS.
The next test was with the flexible magnetic shielding.
Has can be seen the signal detected was 0.44mV RMS a reduction of 3dB with a 4.05Hz north south rotation the reduction could not be achieved using Faraday shielding alone.







The next test was to see the effects on the spectrum of noise/interference.
Again the first test was using standard Competition cable.
Note the 19.23Hz Fundamental
Comparing this result with the cable covered with flexible magnetic shielding.
We see that the Fundamental is reduced 6db and the harmonic and the floor background levels are all reduced.






The next test is to ground the inverting input of the Balance amp and short circuit one end of the cables under test. This will show the common mode effect of the flexible magnetic shield.
First the Competition standard cable.
Note the signal is now 9.64mV RMS
Next the Flexible magnetic shielded cable.
As can be clearly seen the voltage is now reduced to 3.46mV RMS nearly 10dB.







The test is now done to show the spectrum on interference.
First the standard cable.

And then the magnetic shielded cable.
Again the back ground noise is reduced and the high harmonics.

As the magnet field rotational frequencies increase the better the reduction in interference.
More tests are being done again on our cable with 25%, 50%, and 80% mix and not as above with just 10%.
I will post these results in later date.
18/6/2021
 
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pma

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Magnetic shield of cables is good until it gets saturated. Then it is worse than no magnetic shield, because of the transformer coupling effect. (based on use of magnetic shield of coax cables in a high power testing lab)
 

MakeMineVinyl

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I think like most people, my cables don't run anywhere near magnetic sources, so nothing to shield against. And even if cables happen to get near a magnetic source, that's why we have arms/hands to move said cables. ;)
 

PierreV

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Comments welcomed please.

What would be the quantitative impact on a typical home audio scenario? What would be the worst case? Maybe a big subwoofer just placed over a speaker wire? (I can hardly imagine a big sub over an interconnect).
 

pma

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I think like most people, my cables don't run anywhere near magnetic sources, so nothing to shield against. And even if cables happen to get near a magnetic source, that's why we have arms/hands to move said cables. ;)

It is not about “magnetic sources”, but about coupling from H and B field, in other words from the fields created by AC current flow. AFAIK even in studio racks power cords are sometimes placed in metal tubes and such metal tubes create magnetic shielding if made from iron alloy.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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It is not about “magnetic sources”, but about coupling from H and B field, in other words from the fields created by AC current flow. AFAIK even in studio racks power cords are sometimes placed in metal tubes and such metal tubes create magnetic shielding if made from iron alloy.
In studios, power cords are routed down the opposite side of the rack as the signal cables (Henry W. Ott - "Noise Reduction Techniques In Electronic Systems", 1976, Bell Telephone Laboratories).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't 'B and H fields' and 'AC current flow' magnetic sources, or at least electro-magnetic sources?

In many installations metal conduit is used for both signal and AC supply, but this is old, established technology and has nothing to do with the bunk which is the topic of this thread. Engineers had this stuff figured out decades and decades ago. :facepalm:
 
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pma

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't 'B and H fields' and 'AC current flow' magnetic sources, or at least electro-magnetic sources?

Of course, but as subwoofers were mentioned, I thought that static magnetic field was considered which is no issue for signal transfer.
 
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Colin James Wonfor

Colin James Wonfor

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I couldn't get through the first page. It needs work.

Just to inform you all, my writing skills are zero, I blame my dyslexia and autism for it but it got much worse since the stroke I had , so please forgive me, and cringe less.

I HAVE NOW REMOVED THE UN-READABLE GARBAGE.
Please remove me from this forum Amirm thank you.
 
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Jim Matthews

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Just to inform you all, my writing skills are zero, I blame my dyslexia and autism for it but it got much worse since the stroke I had , so please forgive me, and cringe less.

I HAVE NOW REMOVED THE UN-READABLE GARBAGE.
Please remove me from this forum Amirm thank you.
Don't give up.

Research always appears pointless, until an application makes a problem vanish.

Use our Gentle Readers as editors, which is much like packing sausage.
 

MediumRare

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Just to inform you all, my writing skills are zero, I blame my dyslexia and autism for it but it got much worse since the stroke I had , so please forgive me, and cringe less.

I HAVE NOW REMOVED THE UN-READABLE GARBAGE.
Please remove me from this forum Amirm thank you.
Nurse your wounded pride, my friend, and pick your chin up. You are welcome here any time.
 

DonH56

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@Colin James Wonfor

Hmmm... I have had to write and review thousands of papers over the years and can attest that the stereotype about engineer's (lack of) writing skills is not all that wrong, at least for many if not most in industry. Post the article again, or email it, and I'd be glad to give it a look. I couldn't download it yesterday (long day at work). Just from your posts here, your writing skills are well above "zero".

This is a hard but usually not harsh audience for techies, don't worry about it. Your return has brought back a sorely-needed wealth of technical threads with real experience and actual circuits (gasp!) to read and enjoy, please keep it up! No medical guy, but have had to deal with strokes in the family, and staying busy and engaged seems to help recovery.

Most of my career was bleeding-edge applied research that is buried in some company or government archive. It is frustrating to think how much of it was never published or languishes in some obscure repository. I console myself with the thought that it was fun at the time, kept me gainfully employed, and allowed me to meet a lot of really neat people. And some of it did end up in some great products (not audio, sorry -- fighter jets, space shuttle, satellites, the very first PCMCIA network card, and a number of devices that were unknown to most but led their field at the time, primarily in the area of high-speed data converters). Now you have an opportunity to present your work, keep doing so my friend!
 

amirm

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Just to inform you all, my writing skills are zero, I blame my dyslexia and autism for it but it got much worse since the stroke I had , so please forgive me, and cringe less.

I HAVE NOW REMOVED THE UN-READABLE GARBAGE.
Please remove me from this forum Amirm thank you.
We are not going to let you go this easily. :) Please stay. We gave you that special title for a reason!
 
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