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My First High End IEM - 64 Audio U12t

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Keith_W

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Just to be clear, I am not suggesting you have hearing loss. I am only pointing out it is a possible explanation for your perceived excess bass in the U12t. It could also be a whole bunch of other things, such as insertion depth. If your tips don't fit properly, you have to push them in further. Don't forget that you are creating a Helmholtz resonator in your ear canal if your IEM's are vented. And the tuning of the Helmholtz resonator depends on the volume of the ear canal as well as the size of the vent. So, much experimentation is needed to choose the correct vent in your TIA equipped U12t's as well as careful eartip selection that both ensures correct seal and correct insertion depth.

This is why I don't think IEM's are a good choice for critical listening. There are too many variables and they are too inconsistent. For casual listening they are fine. I much prefer the sound of my DCA Stealths, and it is easier to get them to sound good. After the initial setup (a few EQ tweaks to my preference), I slap them on my head, and that's it. No need to keep fiddling with the IEM until it is seated properly before it sounds good.

I think IEM manuals should come with a warning about all the pitfalls of IEM ownership. You MUST select the correct tip, and it's not simply picking one that fits. After all, you can have a smaller eartip that fits, you just have to shove it in further. And a larger eartip might fit, but may not give a proper seal. I tried every tip that came with my IEM and I ordered aftermarket IEM tips before I found one that gave me the best sound. And because tip selection is so personal, there is no point telling you what worked for me. It's like telling you to buy size 11 shoes because I have size 11 shoes and they fit great. The only advice to give is to go try them.

Since you already own your IEM's, I suggest you keep playing with target curves on EQ until you find something you like. Then superimpose your corrections on published measurements of the U12T. This will be an educational exercise for you, because you might find that your preferred target curve is different to what is generally accepted. If it is different, then you have to ask yourself why, and what implications it might have for your mixes. I mean, if your personal preference for sound is different to the general population, you might be producing mixes that most people do not like. Remember - Harman target predicts preference for the general population. It does not predict your preference.
 

thecheapseats

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@martel80 - I'm rather curious as you've said you do music for a living, did you ask any other pros (both live players and/or studio guys/players) what they use for iems?... did you initially consider custom-molded pro-line IEMs for yourself from the start? - as I said I'm curious... at $2k you're saving money (I get that) compared to a pro-line solution with a unique fitting appointment for your ear canal -and as you've mentioned 'fit' is an issue...
 
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@martel80 - I'm rather curious as you've said you do music for a living, did you ask any other pros (both live players and/or studio guys/players) what they use for iems?... did you initially consider custom-molded pro-line IEMs for yourself from the start? - as I said I'm curious... at $2k you're saving money (I get that) compared to a pro-line solution with a unique fitting appointment for your ear canal -and as you've mentioned 'fit' is an issue...
No I was not going for a Custom fit IEM as I barely understood the whole world of IEM when I decided to buy the U12t.
It was later said by 64 Audio through email that the custom fit was the one suggested for Mix engineering.
When I asked them if there was something they could do for me, they directly said to ask the distributor.
When I looked on the distributor website, it clearly state no return no reimbursement.

None of my colleague use some IEM.
 
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if your personal preference for sound is different to the general population, you might be producing mixes that most people do not like.

I am in no place to say that I'm the complete reference in terms of what is accurate or not but I can confidently say that professional artists, A&R and record label employees in general still to this date hit me up to work on their projects for a reason.

As you might have seen yesterday, I also asked majingotan to have a an honest, transparent and also added harsh review of a song I mixed on a subpar Bluetooth IEM in January while I had no other way to monitor and reference.

Here's what he said:

1680390832438.png



@majingotan , if you don't feel comfortable with me sharing this here, please let me know and I will remove it.

@Keith_W Also, please note that I am not a Mastering engineer, so that was my mix BEFORE any mastering applied.

I don't know majin personally but he seem to be someone that listen to a lot of music and feel pretty involved in all of those conversations. I think it is also a good way for me to see how my mixing taste appeal to another type of user.

I sometime receive derogatory criticism towards my mix but it is usually because they sound better then the artist wanted it to be and often call to keep ''more soul'' of the original production.

This happen sometime in the sample based music aestetic where grain and tape/vinyl noise can be part of an artist creative process and I interpret it as something to be fixed. But that's usually only just because we didn't discuss the reasoning behind the mix beforehand. Not because I don't know how to keep music dirty.
 
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Most IEM manufacturers can convert your universal IEM's to custom fit. That is, if you feel like giving them more money after the shoddy way they treated you (ignored emails, etc).
I mean, I told them that the U12t was on the way ( so not even received nor obviously opened ) and they told me that if I wanted the A12t ( which are the same exact retail price ) I had to ask the distributor.

Here's what was told in the communication:

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Hello,

The U12t would be a great fit for mix engineering, as well as our U18t.

We do not make any cables that are 1/4” terminated, but Plussound Audio does.

Custom would lead to the best sound, due to the perfect fit and the increased seal and isolation.
This will lead to a more accurate sound.

The Advice custom tips are not recommended with our U series IEMs, custom made tips change the tuning of the tia driver completely altering the sound. I highly advise against this.

Thank you

Jared
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Hi Jared,

Thank you very much for your answer.

Earlier today I emailed a few of your distributors in Canada and was able to get a brand new set from Noteworty Audio inc. (Nick)

He told me they would be shipped later on today.

Reading your email, I understand that I did not make the correct choice for my critical listening needs.

As I was not hearing back from you, I also bought a set of Silver Dragon IEM V2 from Moon Audio.

Now I understand the the U12t is a 2 pin 0.78 while the A12t is a 2 pin 0.75.

Is there something we can do about it ?

I obviously cannot afford to buy myself another set of IEM at 2K$.

Kind regards,


-----------------------------
Hello,

For an order placed through a dealer, you will need to reach back out to the dealer to look into returns/ordering a custom, etc.
They will be able to assist you since they were the point of sale.

Thank you

-----------------------------------
 

markanini

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Oof, buying expensive gear to appease Warner Music reps. I don't know if you posses the negotiation skills to not get screwed over, which is their modus operandi. Hopefully you will be able to recoup your investment and not let this gig get to your head.
 
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And that was the last trolling message from him I could read.

On the ignore list he goes.
 

Zim

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Unsure if anyone's mentioned since there's a lot going on in this thread but going the custom mold route would change the sound profile/frequency response of any IEMs. And most frequency response measurements out there are done with stock tips on those IEMs. So it'll be a gamble.
 
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Yeah, it will definitely be a gamble but it will be my last fair attempt at getting something I can rely on. If I’m still unsatisfied after all that, they’ll go on the used market for sale and I’ll go back to a set of new sennies and will never look back.
 
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markanini

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In response to a sub $50 IEM:
I will not go the esoteric way another time. I learned my lesson.
In response to a $500 IEM:
Yeah, it will definitely be a gamble but it will be my last fair attempt at getting something I can rely on. If I’m still unsatisfied after all that, they’ll go on the used market for sale and I’ll go back to a set of new sennies and will never look back.
Schoolbook example of inflated perceived vs. real value.
 

asrUser

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Just a Heads up for those that were talking about digital EQing your IEM's or whatever monitors for that matter.

Neumann just released it's first Audio Interface which features a 4 band parametric EQ per output. So you can EQ your outputs independently.

This is a game changer for me, really. I could definitely see myself subtract peaks.

https://www.neumann.com/globalassets/digizuite/37701-en-mt_48_instruction_manual_03_2023_en.pdf

Page 32 of 39
ADI-2 can do 7 bands while miniDSP Flex is able to configure at least 10 bands.
 
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ADI-2 can do 7 bands while miniDSP Flex is able to configure at least 10 bands.
That's very cool.

How many output are there on the ADI-2 ? Is the EQ separate per output like the new MT 48?

How about the miniDSP ? How many outputs and is the EQ separate per outputs ?
 

Keith_W

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BTW, I just remembered that I read an article by Mitch Barnett (@mitchco on ASR). He is a retired mixing engineer and he does sound consulting these days. The article is a review on the Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-5, but he goes into reasons why he thinks the Harman curve does not sound neutral. To him there is too much bass and top end and he describes it as "boom and screech".
 

AdamG

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In case this has not been mentioned. Great little amp with eq/peq. Inexpensive as well. Use this on all my IEMs.

 
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BTW, I just remembered that I read an article by Mitch Barnett (@mitchco on ASR). He is a retired mixing engineer and he does sound consulting these days. The article is a review on the Audeze LCD-4 and LCD-5, but he goes into reasons why he thinks the Harman curve does not sound neutral. To him there is too much bass and top end and he describes it as "boom and screech".

and is the Audeze based on the Harman curve ?
 
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