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My First High End IEM - 64 Audio U12t

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So as the title suggest, I took a big plunge in the IEM world earlier yesterday and just received my first High End IEM today.


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The famous 64 Audio U12t.
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Thanks to Nick at Noteworthy Audio, I was able to get me a brand new set for a fair price.
The shipping from GTA Ontario to Montreal took less then 24 hrs to arrive and was packed like a brand new product of this class should be. Bubble wrap and noodle in a box at least 4 time as big as the U12t packaging. There was no way this thing was going to receive any sort of hit or scratch from mishandling by a courier. Kudos for that.
Dealing with him was also extremely fast and efficient. Good business like we all want.
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It came in 2 pieces at my biggest surprise.
A ''I could kill a man with that'' very sturdy and heavy metal puck and the wrapped box.
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I won't lie, taking all those pictures was a torture before even being able to listen to those but I thought, at that price point, if I'm not making this an event for myself, what will?
So endure, haha. Sorry but I'm poor like that. :k701smile:
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As you can see by yourself, the little Murder puck contain a brush, a dehumidifier, a cable clip and enough space to put a dead mouse in case an emergency occur.
And then it was time to finally open the coffin and investigate the victim and the crime scene.
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Again, everything was just as expected.
Wonderful satin box with printed shiny logo and serial number at the bottom for extra personalization.
And when you open the box, you get greeted by a beautiful message from Vitaliy, the Chief Designer.
Definitely suspect number one in this bloody case.
On the right side you get presented with a very beautiful and ergonomically placed set of IEM and 9 set of ear tips, of 3 different types and 3 different ear opening size, disposed to pick at your convenience.
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Underneath the inspiring cardboard messages on top of the IEM, you will find the Apex modules. By default, my U12t were loaded with the m20 (Pale grey/silver ones).
If you lift the ear tips rack, you will find the cable. Black, pretty basic with a 64 Audio logo on the termination.
Underneath the IEM puck, you'll find a 64 Audio sticker.
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In all aspect, the packaging is stellar and everything is very well presented.
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If I was to find some '' I'm a princess and I deserve better '' type of sentiment in me, I could probably say that at 2000$, I would expect the box containing all the different elements to be in something else then printed cardboard. A wood or fake leather box maybe?
But yeah, we're not here for visual aesthetic to be honest. We're here for the U12t stellar sound quality, aren't we !?
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It took me a moment to realize that the actual container of both the ear tips and the IEM was in fact another puck. This one in leather ( or fake leather? ).
Anyways, It's my favourite puck of the 2 but I wouldn't put a dead mouse in this one. Maybe a cut finger at most.
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Now lets got to it, shall we !?
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First, the assembly of the IEM, cable and ear tips felt tight in all aspect. Not too tight where you're scared of breaking something but just enough to be sure that everything is secured and won't fall off even if you're fleeing from a crime scene.
As this was my first real IEM experience, I must say that I struggled for a minute or two to get those installed correctly in and around my ears.
I first chose the foamy small tips (the ones in the inside ring of the ear tips rack).
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Here, that was the last picture. I had to put my bubblehead in it just because. Good thing the picture is blurry cause I swear I'm one hell of a ugly mothermayor.
So went down in my home studio and plugged them into my U.A. Apollo Twin-X and put them at low level as an introduction.
I was shocked at the amount of gain those small thingy needed to get a decent listening level. I was barely putting in any gain and it was already up there. Great optimization right there. Good job. It was unexpected.
I opened Tidal and put the first song that was there. It was a Wu-Tang song I was talking about to another audiophile yesterday night. Shame on a Ni**a to be precise.
I listened to the first verse and was blown away by the bass....but not in a good way. It was WAAAAAY too much.
So I removed the IEM, removed the m20 and installed the mX module (the black ones) which are supposed to be more neutral. It brought them back to a more acceptable bass level even though it was still too much to my liking.
So to come back to the guy I was chatting with yesterday, we were talking about instrument separation and depth and the difference between his Beyers 1990 and his Sennies HD600 and I asked him to pay attention at the layered snare on top of the sample. It is clearly audible how bad it was layered and not hitting on the groove at all and with a decent monitoring solution, it's very easy to discern between the layered snare and the snare in the original sample. Both get very different depth in the mix.
It's so obvious that once you hear it you cannot unhear it and it ruined that song for me forever.
Again, sadly, I was expecting a lot more depth from the U12t and the instrument separation was not impressive at all. I would like to say 2D but not exactly. Still, they are not impressive at all compared to what I'm used to in my Studio headphones.
If I compare them with my AKG Q701, the sound-stage, depth and width are falling extremely short.
First time I heard my Q701, I was amazed as I felt the width was almost 270 degrees. Like if something was placed behind me sometime or I was in the middle of a whole orchestra / band.
The U12t in comparison feel like I'm sitting in front of my studio monitors but with the centre of the stereo image extremely strong but with about the same stereo width...about 120 degrees or such.
I mean, its not bad but I was expecting something else I guess.
I also directly noticed that the tonal balance was on the dark side. I would like to say muffled but that's not it. I would say that the upper mids and presence were...shy. Yeah, shy is the word.
Just for the sake of this review, we will use REW definition of frequencies so we are all on the same page.
REW Freq response.png


And again, that's really just my opinion. Nothing scientific about it.
Before going further in this review, I need to point out that I am a Mixing Engineer but I now do that as a side line. I was very active when I was in my 20's but I now have a family and my priorities have changed a lot.
So I bought those U12t thinking they would be a great analytical tool. I was searching for something clinical, something neutral, something that would gives me so much detail I would have all I need to make some precise and advised mix decision.
Well, I was about to discover that I was wrong about every level of my expectation.
So after being disappointed about that Wu-tang song rendition on the U12t, I decided to give them all the chance to shine in the upper mids and played Bad Bunny - Moscow Mule.
Again, there was no details popping out in that department. I also notices an extremely strong snare hit in the lower mid frequency range at 1:03 or about. Like if the Snare was waaaaay louder then everything else in the mix. It was shockingly obvious at very low volume.
After a minute, In the song, I started to panic.
So I switched it to a reference song I always use when testing new studio monitors. Bob Marley - Is This Love.
Again, where were my percussion details ? Where's the sparkle ?
Again, panic attack, stop the song at the one minute mark or about and put on Chan Chan from Buena Vista Social Club. Instantly I hear an overwhelming amount of 100hz to 400hz.
To me it was extremely shocking as those 2 last song are considered perfect mixes in my opinion and I use them a lot to get a sense of balance when I mix popular music.
At that point I decided to remove my U12t and went to drink a glass of water and wipe out the blood coming out of my nose and eyes.
I started to think what the hell was going on. How can the Hi-fi community reviewers have such different taste compared to neutral analytical tools in regards to a target curve for an ideal IEM/Headphones/Monitoring solution.
And I just stayed there looking at the wall.... Trying to figure out where the details were and how I could even remotely think about using those for mixing purposes.
I decided to change the ear tips and put on the small silicon one. The one with the smallest excursion.
So I got back in front of my monitors, Put on the IEM again and decided to play Jacqueline Du Pré - Elgar Cello Concierto...the one conducted by John Barbirolli.
And there it was. The whole body of that cello came alive like the phoenix was reborn. It was great, magnificent as I was expecting it to be.
But then in the middle of Op. 85 1 Adagio Moderato, when it became busy at 2:30 mark until the 2:45 mark , the U12t just straight crapped out like if the driver saturated completely and were not able to reproduce that much energy at that level.
So I played it again at a very low level and again, it failed horribly. It just become a big mess of frequencies with absolutely no resolution.
I still kept on listening to the whole Concerto noticing the same issue over and over again and when Janet Baker entered on Slumber-song, it really hit me. I understood the worth of the U12t.
It's all about the mids. that's it. That's all there is to it. The mids. The details between 500 and 2khz are spot on but sadly it is muffled by saturated mid lows that are constantly overbearing the whole mix when there's a tint of high energy in the mix.
So I decided to put on Bill Evans - You Must Believe in Spring.
The piano sounded good. The bass was straight up in my face on B Minor Waltz like if the bass was at 1 meter from the only mic there was and the piano was just 2 meters behind. The details about the squeaking of Bill on the bench and foot on the sustain pedal were completely absent.
The high pitch bass note at 1:35 on The self title song You Must believe in spring completely monopolized the whole groove to the point where it become ridiculously out any sort of balance. And that's until 2:55. That shows just how much saturation there is in the mid lows and bass frequencies.
So to resume my Day 1 listening experience:
-Unlistenable on m20 Apex module. The bass sound like a young kid that got his first cheap car and throw a 15 inch sub in the trunk. The bass itself doesnt distort but it is completely overwhelming the whole mix and that makes everything sound muddy.
-mX module give them a good chunk of clarity that is more then expected at this price point. Still its lacking a ton.
-The Stereo field seem limited to a 120 degree angle and the centre position of the stereo field is extremely strong. Almost a Mono experience sometime.
-Its is extremely disappointing to see such a lack of details and resolution in such an expensive IEM.
-It is not worth using for micro nor macro detail focus in comparison to my APS Aeon 2, My ATC SCM20 or my DMAX Super Cubes 5.
- Centre field of the stereo field is laser beam precise and have no subtlety.
- 200hz to 400hz is over saturated which make the mid lows pop out way too much. It is the driving frequencies of those headphones and as much as it can be emotionally comforting, it is not realistic for one tiny bit.
All in all, a VERY disappointing first experience. It almost feel like someone sold me a set of Beats by Dr Dre at 10 time the price point and told me those were the best there is in the IEM world.
I'll still give them a few more hours of listening but so far, this is definitely not the analytical tool I was looking for. Its completely uneven frequency wise and almost absent of any details that would make me work on my mix and get them to sound better. Not to point out the very weak sense of depth.
I know this review will pis off a lot of audiophile ( even though it's really not my intention) but I would lie to myself saying otherwise. So my apologies for hurting your 2000$ feelings but so far, those are not a tool I would rely on for ANY mix engineering task.
I'll make a 2nd day review tomorrow after coming back up from my hurtful enormous disappointment and hopefully I will see them under a different light.
Again, my apologies if anyone felt annoyed by this review. This is really my first impression.
See you tomorrow.
 

raif71

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My friend bought this model awhile back and I had a try ... not more than a minute. I felt nothing special about it but I guess I needed more time. Perhaps you need the breaking time ;)
 
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My friend bought this model awhile back and I had a try ... not more than a minute. I felt nothing special about it but I guess I needed more time. Perhaps you need the breaking time ;)

I definitely hope I simply need more time because I'm currently nothing shy of b*tthurt about that purchase.
 

majingotan

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Never a shame in getting burned in poor purchases. This is why ASR exists so you get to experience firsthand that the reviews performed here reflect what should be heard. In general IEMs can barely compete with sub 500 headphone in detail and monitoring purposes. I’ve heard the most expensive IEM (Oriolus Traillii at 5K street price) and even that one is just on par with my Dan Clark Aeon X Open (400 USD street price) in terms of “resolution”

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Never a shame in getting burned in poor purchases. This is why ASR exists so you get to experience firsthand that the reviews performed here reflect what should be heard. In general IEMs can barely compete with sub 500 headphone in detail and monitoring purposes. I’ve heard the most expensive IEM (Oriolus Traillii at 5K street price) and even that one is just on par with my Dan Clark Aeon X Open (400 USD street price) in terms of “resolution”

View attachment 275850
So what would you suggest I do if im after a portable solution to bring with me that will give me all I need to mix micro details issues when I'm on the road ?

I honestly don't want to start an open war with the IEM community but this experience is straight up insulting.
 

Zensō

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Sorry about the disappointing purchase. Unfortunately, price and sound quality have little to no correlation in headphones and IEMs.

Since you’re looking for an analytical IEM for mixing, I’d suggest any of the flat-response models from Etymotic:

 
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Sorry about the disappointing purchase. Unfortunately, price and sound quality have little to no correlation in headphones and IEMs.

Since you’re looking for an analytical IEM for mixing, I’d suggest any of the flat-response models from Etymotic:


You're the second person telling me about the Etymotic IEM. I was suggested the ER4SR, but as you and majin pointed, I got in the fanboy bandwagon and it brought me to spend 2K$ on an horrible set of IEM.

I still can't believe what I'm experiencing.

I'm so f***ing pissed right now.

I feel like a kid in the 90's that bought an expensive Harman Kardan sound system thinking I could mix on it because it's expensive. What a freaking shame.

Shame on me. Shame on me really. What a dumbass I am.
 

Zensō

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You're the second person telling me about the Etymotic IEM. I was suggested the ER4SR, but as you and majin pointed, I got in the fanboy bandwagon and it brought me to spend 2K$ on an horrible set of IEM.

I still can't believe what I'm experiencing.

I'm so f***ing pissed right now.

I feel like a kid in the 90's that bought an expensive Harman Kardan sound system thinking I could mix on it because it's expensive. What a freaking shame.

Shame on me. Shame on me really. What a dumbass I am.
Try not to be too hard on yourself; many of us on this forum have been through the same thing. The audiophile industry contains many semi-predatory manufacturers selling over priced, under performing products, supported by a network of “reviewers” who have little to no technical qualifications. Thankfully, this site exists to cut through some of the BS.
 

ThatSoundsGood

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I recommend that people get the custom ear molds done with 64 audio products. Having a custom impression of your ear done will get them to sit properly and aim appropriately towards your ear drum. The custom molds don't cost much more. I think you would have a wildly different experience. The custom in ears will create a better seal in your ear which will help everything from 500Hz and down to sound much better. Having the drivers aimed properly at your ear drum will keep the frequency response sounding flatter and cleaner. This will give a better stereo image. I own custom 12's and 18's. They are by far the best sounding in ears I've ever used or measured. I'm not attempting to dismiss your experience here at all. I never liked the non-custom sets when I tried them. Once I got the custom sets, I switched all of my artists over to these because they're just that much better.
 
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I recommend that people get the custom ear molds done with 64 audio products. Having a custom impression of your ear done will get them to sit properly and aim appropriately towards your ear drum. The custom molds don't cost much more. I think you would have a wildly different experience. The custom in ears will create a better seal in your ear which will help everything from 500Hz and down to sound much better. Having the drivers aimed properly at your ear drum will keep the frequency response sounding flatter and cleaner. This will give a better stereo image. I own custom 12's and 18's. They are by far the best sounding in ears I've ever used or measured. I'm not attempting to dismiss your experience here at all. I never liked the non-custom sets when I tried them. Once I got the custom sets, I switched all of my artists over to these because they're just that much better.
What you are saying is awesome and super cute and all but when I contacted 64 audio about my need for accurate and technical IEM, they told me that I would need to contact the distributor and try to deal something with them. No solution was offered whatsoever.

In your opinion, how much do you think the distributor will charge me to get those back and sell me a '' possibly review Hifi super cool top of the line fanboy custom made'' IEM by the wonderful 64 audio company?

I'm sure we're now understanding each other very precisely and deeply.

Not going to happen.

Jared at 64 audio was very straight forward about the company stance in this regard and I will honor his will.

On a customer stance, I will spread what happened far and wide.

That's a shame on the verge to be shady.

I said what I said.

But on the same note as your underlying message, you can buy my silence by fixing this as this is unacceptable. I will happily delete my review If i can get somethign half decent to mix on.

Those U12t are utterly useless.
 

majingotan

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I recommend that people get the custom ear molds done with 64 audio products. Having a custom impression of your ear done will get them to sit properly and aim appropriately towards your ear drum. The custom molds don't cost much more. I think you would have a wildly different experience. The custom in ears will create a better seal in your ear which will help everything from 500Hz and down to sound much better. Having the drivers aimed properly at your ear drum will keep the frequency response sounding flatter and cleaner. This will give a better stereo image. I own custom 12's and 18's. They are by far the best sounding in ears I've ever used or measured. I'm not attempting to dismiss your experience here at all. I never liked the non-custom sets when I tried them. Once I got the custom sets, I switched all of my artists over to these because they're just that much better.

Customs are even more muted sounding than Universals. OP is asking for a flat tuning in the bass region. Clearly the custom model are even worse when measured, and non of any so called kilobuck IEM will ever offer a flat bass tuning. OP needs ER4SR or Moondrop Blessing 2 (less neutral in bass but definitely not as exaggerated as any of 64 Audio IEMs) and nothing else to satisfy his mixing needs.
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ThatSoundsGood

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What you are saying is awesome and super cute and all but when I contacted 64 audio about my need for accurate and technical IEM, they told me that I would need to contact the distributor and try to deal something with them. No solution was offered whatsoever.

In your opinion, how much do you think the distributor will charge me to get those back and sell me a '' possibly review Hifi super cool top of the line fanboy custom made'' IEM by the wonderful 64 audio company?

I'm sure we're now understanding each other very precisely and deeply.

Not going to happen.

Jared at 64 audio was very straight forward about the company stance in this regard and I will honor his will.

On a customer stance, I will spread what happened far and wide.

That's a shame on the verge to be shady.

I said what I said.

But on the same note as your underlying message, you can buy my silence by fixing this as this is unacceptable. I will happily delete my review If i can get somethign half decent to mix on.

Those U12t are utterly useless.
I wasn't addressing the customer service experience. I get where you're coming from. I have certainly had a different experience with them in that regard also, but I'm not interested in arguing over it. I understand that you're unhappy with them,
 
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I wasn't addressing the customer service experience. I get where you're coming from. I have certainly had a different experience with them in that regard also, but I'm not interested in arguing over it. I understand that you're unhappy with them,
That would be an understatement.

I'm extremely pissed.

This rendering make no sense whatsoever.
 

ThatSoundsGood

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Customs are even more muted sounding than Universals. OP is asking for a flat tuning in the bass region. Clearly the custom model are even worse when measured, and non of any so called kilobuck IEM will ever offer a flat bass tuning. OP needs ER4SR or Moondrop Blessing 2 (less neutral in bass but definitely not as exaggerated as any of 64 Audio IEMs) and nothing else to satisfy his mixing needs.
View attachment 275872

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I understand these measurements but what they don't account for is the difference in how they seal to the ear. Customs will seal much better and give a lot better experience since they will reject 25db (ish) of outside noise. Plus, they will be properly aimed at the ear drum so the mid range and up will be much clearer. The measurements of the frequency response are not the whole picture here. It is a drastically different experience with custom molds.
 

ThatSoundsGood

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That would be an understatement.

I'm extremely pissed.

This rendering make no sense whatsoever.
The way I understand it, this company was originally making in ears for people on stage performing (which is how I use them) and they got into the hifi community because people like their technology. Unfortunately, it's not gonna work for everyone and you got the shit end of that. It sounds like you got them from a dealer instead of directly form the company, correct?
 
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The way I understand it, this company was originally making in ears for people on stage performing (which is how I use them) and they got into the hifi community because people like their technology. Unfortunately, it's not gonna work for everyone and you got the shit end of that. It sounds like you got them from a dealer instead of directly form the company, correct?
Correct.

And I relied on ' not going to name the famous IEM ranking website Discord community'' which reveiled themself to be a bunch of snobs insulting each others AFTER I bought those.

EDIT: They also told me that their freq response graph ( which was posted here ) were unreliable after I bought those.
 

ThatSoundsGood

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Correct.

And I relied on ' not going to name the famous IEM ranking website Discord community'' which reveiled themself to be a bunch of snobs insulting each others AFTER I bought those.
And the dealer won't do anything to return them? Have you contacted 64 directly?
 

Zensō

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The way I understand it, this company was originally making in ears for people on stage performing (which is how I use them) and they got into the hifi community because people like their technology.
Some might argue that the company (like a number of others) entered the audiophile market because audiophiles are accustomed to over paying for products that don’t justify their high price tag.
 
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And the dealer won't do anything to return them? Have you contacted 64 directly?
I have not contacted the dealer.

I have a hard time to imagine me asking him to restock them because I made a stupid mistake. If I was him I'd tell myself to go eat dookie in a politicaly correct maner like '' yes we can restock them for a 500 $ loss as this is what an open box is worth ''alike''.

I did contact 64 audio, here,s the whole convo:

Hello,

I am currently shopping for a a new set of IEM specifically for Mix engineering purposes and cam across your u12t model which seem very interesting.

As I am trying to pin point with which company and model I will be making my purchase, I have a few questions that I would like to know if there is something you can do to help me in my decision process.

As I will only be using these to make critical mix decision, I was wondering if you had a way to make a cable with a 1/4 jack ending. I just hate using adapters and my DAC is obviously of professional grade and only has some ¼ jack output.

If not, do you know where I could source a good quality cable with a ¼ jack ending for the u12t?

Also, as I was reading and talking with other users, you seem to offer 2 similar model. One that come with universal tip (u12t) and one that offer a custom fit (a12t).

My goal is to get the most clinical detail so isolation is an important factor so the custom ear tip are really enticing but the 8 weeks turn around time is much less.

I have an appointment next Tuesday to get my ear impressions. I saw that adv-sound offer some custom ear tips with a 4-5 weeks turn around time. Would there be any issues in me getting the u12t now and getting my custom ear tip made by them for that model ?

Best regards,
---------------
Hello,

The U12t would be a great fit for mix engineering, as well as our U18t.

We do not make any cables that are 1/4” terminated, but Plussound Audio does.

Custom would lead to the best sound, due to the perfect fit and the increased seal and isolation.
This will lead to a more accurate sound.

The Advice custom tips are not recommended with our U series IEMs, custom made tips change the tuning of the tia driver completely altering the sound. I highly advise against this.

Thank you
----------------------

Hi Jared,

Thank you very much for your answer.

Earlier today I emailed a few of your distributors in Canada and was able to get a brand new set from Noteworty Audio inc. (Nick)

He told me they would be shipped later on today.

Reading your email, I understand that I did not make the correct choice for my critical listening needs.

As I was not hearing back from you, I also bought a set of Silver Dragon IEM V2 from Moon Audio.

Now I understand the the U12t is a 2 pin 0.78 while the A12t is a 2 pin 0.75.

Is there something we can do about it ?

I obviously cannot afford to buy myself another set of IEM at 2K$.

Kind regards,

-----------------------------


Hello,

For an order placed through a dealer, you will need to reach back out to the dealer to look into returns/ordering a custom, etc.
They will be able to assist you since they were the point of sale.

Thank you

----------------------

Thanks for the answer Jared.

That was me fucking up for being over excited by reviews I guess.

I’m sure they’ll be great anyways.

I’ll give those advice sound in ear a shot anyways . Maybe I’ll be able to stabilize the frequency range with the different modules . In the worst case scenario, it’s only 150$ lost .

Thanks for getting back to me.

All the best,
 

majingotan

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As I was not hearing back from you, I also bought a set of Silver Dragon IEM V2 from Moon Audio.

You could've bought an ER4SR and get all the details that you need for mixing (yes it also has -26 dB isolation) but instead wasted it on this snake oil
 
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