My dongle search rabbit hole

[OK1]

Where do I start?

1st I'm on Windows 10, which could be part of the challenge. Those on Apple devices appear to have a more seamless experience.

I have an EMU 0404 USB, audio interface which I use with an AKG K702 headphone - but this is not a very portable solution. So most of the time I listened to the AKG's plugging them directly into the audio outs of my Dell laptop. A house move led to my AKG being somewhere in a lot of boxes, and will take time to find, so I bought a Sony MDR-E9LP as a cheap and cheerful replacement plugged directly into my laptop audio out.

Hitherto I had been using the ASIO driver of the onboard Realtek via my DAW - Reaper. Thinking - ah this is pure audio, cos I was using ASIO, then I tried out WASAPI, just to see, and it was definitely not sounding the same as ASIO. The Asio had bass suppressed, definitely pinched sound, with WASAPI exclusive definitely sounding better and more open, than ASIO. This is kind of strange, and am mentioning it here cos that was a shock.

To be continued, to avoid each post becoming TLDR.

 

[OK1]

So I became curious and based on the Youtube review by Julian Krause (link to youtube below), bought a Samsung dongle here on ebay in the UK.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184119816551

On delivery - I plugged it in using the USB-C to USB-A adaptor. Over time I was not satisfied with the product for reasons which I will outline in the next post, chief of which was the fact that what I received was not recognised as a Samsung device in Windows.

Furthermore some of the lettering on the USB connector looked fake cos it was not symmetrical and did not look like the similar lettering on Samsung audio dongles on Ebay and on the Samsung web site

(I would have bought directly from Samsung UK, but they did not have any in stock, which was why I went to ebay)

Even moreso the dongle I received did not look exactly like the Samsung dongles, I saw on the web. Long story short, I'm returning this adaptor which from now on I'll call the Fake samsung dongle.

What's shocking is - it was advertised as a genuine Samsung dongle. on Ebay, but on closer review, there are lots of these fake dongles on ebay. The trick is to take a good look at the pictures and compare with the authentic Samsung dongle from Samsung's web site.

And there was one more thing, the fake Samsung dongle did not come with any packaging, just enclosed in a clear plastic small thin "bad" in an envelope.

 

[OK1]

I ordered a genuine Samsung dongle via Amazon.co.uk and it was clearly more balanced and clearer to my ears than the fake Samsung dongle, which had over emphasized bass and treble - very sharpish.

The volume level at the same settings in my DAW - which is where I control volume from, sounded definitely louder in the real Samsung dongle.

But for some strange reason, the stereo was reversed, and I have not been able to get to the bottom of that issue. All tests in Windows, including the device controls, at the most basic level tell me that this is swapped. So either the Samsung dongle is faulty by manufacture, or because it is expecting to be used with a headset + microphone, and my Sony headphone MDR-E9LP is only a headphone, the connectors are "touching". I'll only be able to verify this assertion, when I test with a headset that has a microphone.

Both dongles the genuine and fake Samsung, cause occasional stuttering when used in WASAPI, not sure what the problem is, and it could be my laptop ! The challenge in Windows is - with so many components - software, hardware coming from all over the place, when for example I contacted Samsung about the channel swap issue, the moment I mentioned I was connected to a non Samsung device, I could see that they were not interested in helping me any further - not their problem. So that's Windows for you, no one taking any responsibility for sorting anything out. You the end user is the troubleshooter.

There was also an initial issue with both devices where I had to disable the HID device of each, to avoid them behaving as if I was controlling the media start and stop, which led to very strange issues - literally unusable until I discovered what was wrong -

See solution at link below.

https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/15c8e40
So at this time, I'm pretty pleased with the end result, having swapped the channels in the monitoring output of my DAW - Reaper...., with a bit of help from Toneboosters Morphit for headphone EQ and some additional custom EQ using Reaper's in-built ReaEQ plugin. AND some crossfeed plugins which I cycle through depending on my mood, kinda like changing speakers, but virtual.

It's a journey, but there is more -one of the members here has helped me narrow down my search for the ultimate dongle, which I hope to get soon and stay on for at least another 3 years or more. At some point in time, I think the products have reached a maturity and a "good enough", that we begin to chase shadows, especially when the improvements are not audible, and there is no point.

So with the next post, I'll discuss the higher end dongles, I'm thinking of getting.

 

[OK1]

Ah - by the way I have on its way to me, an Apple - USB-C to 3.5 mm dongle (North America version) - ordered from Apple's web site in the US, and has been delivered to someone in the US, who is posting the item to me in the UK. Eagerly look forward to this !.

Why all this trouble, apparently the US version has more power, than the version sold in Europe - more is always good..

 

[OK1]

Hidizs S9 PRO Measurements (DAC Dongle)

I'd like to listen to my Sennheiser HD660S from my phone with a dongle, preferably balanced. So I'm having doubts between this S9 Pro and the E1DA 9038Sg3. What are the benefits between one another..? To me a benefit is with the S9 Pro is that I can listen to unbalanced headphones too. PS. Can...

audiosciencereview.com

Thanks to really good advice from one of the members here :

My current shortlist for affordable higher end dongles is: Moondrop Dawn Pro, Truthear Shio, Tanchjim Space, Tempotec Sonata BHD Pro. I'll post as soon as I decide which one to get.

 

[Deckard01]

Dongles are really a rabbit hole. I still searching for my next update for my K701 and HD600.

I am stuck thinking about HIBY FC6 or Colorfly M1P. These two dongle seems to be almost ideal (for now).

But then I am thinking again of Mojo 2.

Or to move on to a desktop solution which I do not want as I to to solve my problems with portable solutions capable of driving properly my cans..

 

[OK1]

Dongles are really a rabbit hole. I still searching for my next update for my K701 and HD600.

I am stuck thinking about HIBY FC6 or Colorfly M1P. These two dongle seems to be almost ideal (for now).

But then I am thinking again of Mojo 2.

Or to move on to a desktop solution which I do not want as I to to solve my problems with portable solutions capable of driving properly my cans..

Several years ago, when the market, well at least the market based on the information available to me, was dominated by products such as the Audioquest Dragon Fly, prior to the development of ChiFi (Chinese brand HiFi) with more competitive pricing, I was not really interested, cos prices, at that time started from about £100/$120 approx.

And I have been a bit jaded by the Audiophile industry, having attended one session, not far from where I was living in the UK, at the time, South East England, with a supposedly high end set of speakers that sounded not that good, to me (excessive bass, and just loud for being loud), and I was not impressed. So products like Audioquest which were predominantly advertised in the HiFi magazines and web sites, I kind of took their justification with a pinch of salt.

The emergence of sites like archimago's, Audiosciencereview, and Julian Krause on youtube, and any others who provide measurements and objective opinions, has been such a breakthrough, Huge breakthrough. and I think this level of scrutiny has contributed to newcomers competing more equitably based on actual measurable criteria, not some random opinions of "so called" influencers and reviewers like Darko Audio on youtube.

It is a new dawn in audio. One I am so grateful for. And it is such a relief to have a place like this - where one can find like minded people with similar interests, to discuss and improve understanding, for the benefit of all of us. I am amazed that some of the engineers who create these leading edge products are also contributors here, and we can learn so much from them.

I think ultimately, unless one is making money from the investment, for most of us we have to stop somewhere, cos the incremental improvements are now dominated by diminishing returns - each incremental improvement costing much more.

Question is where does one draw the line and stop.

Another way to phrase this question is - in the total solution for good audio, where does one put one's money to get the best bang for the buck.

The challenge with so many products now only available online, is we have nowhere to listen to these products, in a quiet place - trade fairs are definitely not suitable for listening to personal products, cos the level of ambient noise will be far to high to tell any difference - when there is not much audible difference considering how advanced almost all DAC's now are.

So we are with stuck with trial and error as I have done a bit of, and/or rely on the subjective opinions of others, or better still rely on objective opinions of those on this web site, who I consider as about the most objective.

I was aware of the Hiby FC 1 up till the Hiby FC 4, ever knew there was a Hiby FC 6, until you mentioned it.

I'll continue in another post

 

[OK1]

I am stuck thinking about HIBY FC6 or Colorfly M1P. These two dongle seems to be almost ideal (for now).

But then I am thinking again of Mojo 2.

I was aware of the Hiby FC 1 up till the Hiby FC 4, ever knew there was a Hiby FC 6, until you mentioned it. I never was aware of the Colorfly M1P.

Big question for me would be - why are you considering these two products, and which of these are the most important criteria, in your decision making?

1. Price
2. Features
3. Brand Name (Yes brand name is important to some consumers - and it is a valid criteria)
4. Subjective opinions from those who have published their opinions
5. Objective review, based on measured results.
6. Personal experience - e.g having had the privilege of using some of these products, temporarily.

My criteria would be :

1. Price of course, cos I have a max budget I can invest on these kinds of products
2. Features - I think I posted the most important features I need here :

Hidizs S9 PRO Measurements (DAC Dongle)

I'd like to listen to my Sennheiser HD660S from my phone with a dongle, preferably balanced. So I'm having doubts between this S9 Pro and the E1DA 9038Sg3. What are the benefits between one another..? To me a benefit is with the S9 Pro is that I can listen to unbalanced headphones too. PS. Can...

audiosciencereview.com

3. Definitely has to be durable and a product I can use for many many years - at least 5 years. Truth be told, I think any USB dongle DAC I purchase, including the two I have already purchased (the Samsung dongle and the Apple USB-C dongle) should be in use for the next 15 years, i.e until the USB-C interface becomes obsolete. My personal prediction, the USB-C interface should be in use for another 20 to 30 years, in my opinion.

I also think the quality of sound of the portable devices is already good enough for most headphones. So unless one was aiming to use some particularly demanding headphones, such as maybe electrostatic or planar magnetic, with low sensitivity, almost any of the recent dongle products would drive most headphones, to levels that are suitable for normal and occasional loud listening levels.

So the only reasons to bother with a desktop DAC/Headphone amp solution would be - one has the spare cash and simply wants to get the very very best, and a desktop solution does look very elegant and visible and satisfying, and tactile - having things like remote controls, and you get the substantial device to look at, that explains the small hole in the pocket, that it took to acquire the products OR one has a specific need to power hard to drive headphones.

Between desktop and dongle products, I think the quality gap in audio quality is not reaching the point where the difference if any, would be a matter of personal preference, or subjectivity - in a blind test, it may be difficult to distinguish, purely based on listening.

I will have a look at the products you had in mind, but I would definitely want to know what the manufacturers specifications were, and of course if anyone was able to independently corroborate these specs, based on a review of a shipping product (not a pre-production sample), that would be a bonus.

One thing I have observed is that some manufacturers such as Ifi and Audioquest (manufacturer of the Dragon Fly series) are a bit scanty about their published specifications, with lots of obfuscation and flowery statements, and very little by way of measurements, to back up anything !

So that is definitely something to watch out for. I would definitely avoid any product where the manufacturer is scanty on independently verifiable details.

I come from the hobbyist home studio perspective, where for decades, it has been NORMAL for manufacturers to publish specifications, so it is such a relief to find that the audiophile end of the market is now coming to the table, and providing much better specs of their products, that are independently verifiable - of course this is only a few hifi manufacturers.

For the professional music industry - its the norm, every manufacturer provides a fair number of measurable specs, for things like audio interfaces.

For the items you are interested in - definitely have a look at any available specs. I'll check when I have the time.

 

[OK1]

I must add here, its a chain - each component contributing its own benefit.

Here is my chain (I'm on Windows 10), from input to output.

1. Source - most of the time - is Youtube and Spotify, WhatsApp, Instagram, social media, on my laptop.
2. Audio is piped into VB Audio's ASIO Bridge/Hi Fi Cable - a virtual Windows audio device/driver - which is defined as the Windows default.
3. The virtual driver sends this into one of the virtual Reaper ReaRoute ASIO stereo pairs.
4. The Reaper DAW receives this, as one of its auxiliary inputs.
5. Within Reaper the following chain based on different plugins is used
5.1 Volume control using a gain plugin
5.2 Headphone correction EQ - using Toneboosters Morphit
5.3 Additional custom EQ,to my taste, using Reaper's in-built ReaEQ parametric equaliser - broad strokes.
5.4 Crossfeed using a plugin
5.5 Stereo channel swap to correct an anomaly I have discussed earlier in this thread.
6. Then out from Reaper through Windows DirectSound, because WASAPI was unstable on all my current dongles,
7. To the dongle - currently I'm using the genuine Samsung USB-C to 3.5 mm stereo - model number - EE-UC10JUWEGWW
8. Headphones - Sony MDR-E9LP

So in any thought about improving the quality of what I'm hearing, it's going to be - where would I spend the least effort and time and money to get the most improvement.

From what I have done so far, I think the place where one will obtain the most value, in order of importance, would be :

Item 8 - the transducer which translates the electrical signal to sound waves - i.e the headphones, based on measurements, the greatest distortion and deviation from the original signal will be caused by the transducer - these are the most inaccurate translators in the chain. I think this is where most of the effort should be invested. This is what we are listening to, and any other improvements in the chain, will need us to have this component performing well, for us to appreciate the improvement.

Then

Item 1 - This is key. No point in having a wonderful transparent audio chain if one is listening to low quality highly compressed MP3 audio files. It's impossible to fix poor quality audio sources. Upgrading to lossless

Then

Item 6 - In Windows I was shocked to discover how different ASIO and WASAPI or Direct Sound sounded, so a good check of which audio driver one was using to feed the audio device is important. I would expect that properly designed devices would have this issue sorted out. I had a bad unexpected experience with a Realtek audio interface driver,on the in-built headphone device. This variance was a huge surprise.

Then

Item 7 -Yes moving from one DAC/Headphone amp - such as from the Internal DAC/Headphone Amp of my laptop, to the USB-C/Headphone amp provided by the Samsung dongle, has been a huge improvement in clarity and ability to hear the details. And yes the fake Samsung Dac did not sound as good as the genuine product.

Moving from the Samsung Dac to a device with better objectively independently measured specs, should yield incremental improvements. Can't imagine a huge change here by moving to better products, cos the Samsung Dac is already quite good, and sonically balanced.

Then

Item 5.4 - Implementing a good crossfeed - really took things to another level, this singular change on its own deserves a whole thread of its own.

 

[OK1]

I am stuck thinking about HIBY FC6 or Colorfly M1P. These two dongle seems to be almost ideal (for now).

From my research the HIBY FC6 is a bit of a boutique item - if you believe in R2R dacs. Not cheap.

I would have no problem with the Colorfly M1P - which has very good published specs and the review I watched on Youtube spoke glowingly about this dongle. It seems to have very high measured verifiable specifications, and should sound really good. It is also quite reasonably priced.. Analog sounding..., whatever that means.

 

[BDWoody]

From what I have done so far, I think the place where one will obtain the most value, in order of importance, would be :

Item 8 - the transducer which translates the electrical signal to sound waves

We have a winner!

Focusing on the stuff with moving parts will serve you well.

The rest is generally going to get lost in inaudible detail.

Make sure you have enough power to drive your headphones or speakers, learn how to do in-room measurements if you use speakers, and try to enjoy more music!

 

[OK1]

Thinking through my options, considering that all my sources are compressed audio from streaming and social media, I'll stick with the Samsung and the Apple dongle. The stuttering has been traced to CPU overload. For some reason Spotify and Youtube seem to have rather high CPU utilisation, so maybe a reinstall is in order.

WASAPI in exclusive mode clearly sounds the best. So I'll be sticking to that.

 

[BDWoody]

Thinking through my options, considering that all my sources are compressed audio from streaming and social media, I'll stick with the Samsung and the Apple dongle.

Even there, I wouldn't worry much about what you are missing. The codecs are very good these days.

There are many places where you can compare between lossy) lossless, and see if you should be concerned.

Before you pay for high-fidelity streaming music, try to pass this lossless audio test

Spotify announced a lossless audio tier, but few can even tell the difference between lossless and high quality lossy audio. Can you?

thenextweb.com

You may be thinking your gear just isn't good enough to hear it, but it's more likely it's not the improvement you are expecting.

Good, clean sound has become very accessible and quite cheap. Have you checked out any IEMs? That's a way to get remarkably good sound for comparatively little $$.

 

[OK1]

Have you checked out any IEMs? That's a way to get remarkably good sound for comparatively little $$.

I have definitely spent quite a bit of time reading up and listening to lots of opinions on IEM's over the last year or two. Hitherto, I've been satisfied with my AKG K702 headphones. So IEM's were not an urgent requirement.

I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of my recent stop gap acquisition, a Sony MDR-E9LP''s, cos the AKG's were somewhere in boxes - after a house move, and I could not be bothered to find them.

One thought at the back of my my mind is - technology moves forward. And the science of materials continues to improve, especially now that there are so many headphones being sold, and most people's high quality primary listening source is headphones, I would hope that the R&D in earphones created over the most recent decade, might offer some improvements over what I am hearing with my AKG 702's.

So I have been looking.

The challenge is -with the advent of CHi-Fi, there are so many options for IEM's. So many. It's a bit like the proliferation of affordable Dac's. So many to choose from. And so many opinions. Who does one listen to? Unfortunately headphone measurement is not as precise a science as speaker measurement., due to room for error in taking measurements from such small devices, and the graphs produces are not easy to translate into meaningful decisions, so for me its really hard forming any objective opinions.

The only comprehensive database I know of is the one by crinacle, but even that is subjective, and with his involvement in the design of some IEM's from which he benefits financially, not too sure his opinion will be 100% objective, and furthermore he does not review any IEM's he was involved in designing.

Are there any IEM's in the $50 or less price bracket that you think I would not be disappointed with?

One the one hand I appreciate the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of multiple drivers, but I also recognise that just like multi driver speakers, sometimes a single driver has its own advantages, as multiple drivers need know how and a bit of luck to seamlessly handle the entire frequency range. So many options.

 

[BDWoody]

Are there any IEM's in the $50 or less price bracket that you think I would not be disappointed with?

I got one of these after this review, and have no complaints.

TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

This is a review, listening tests and measurements of the Truthear Crinacle Zero IEM review. It was sent to me by @crinacle as he has been a consultant on the project. It costs US $50. I like that it has a bit of "bling" but not too much. The cord is just the right length for me (many IEMs...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[OK1]

I got one of these after this review, and have no complaints.

Thank you. Most appreciated.

 

[Aberu]

I can only speak from my own experience, but I've been using a Hidizs Sonata HD DAC for years and years. It seemed like it would be fragile but it lasted probably 5-6 years until recently (I felt a static shock when unplugging it from my Dell Dock, RIP).

The Hidizs Sonata's are always highly rated, the S9 Pro is fairly compact still, but not as compact as the one I had. Definitely keep them in consideration as well.

 

[OK1]

I can only speak from my own experience, but I've been using a Hidizs Sonata HD DAC for years and years. It seemed like it would be fragile but it lasted probably 5-6 years until recently (I felt a static shock when unplugging it from my Dell Dock, RIP).

The Hidizs Sonata's are always highly rated, the S9 Pro is fairly compact still, but not as compact as the one I had. Definitely keep them in consideration as well.

Thanks, I'll add this to my shortlist - i.e. one of the Hidizs Sonata's.

 

[ZolaIII]

Thanks, I'll add this to my shortlist - i.e. one of the Hidizs Sonata's.

It's Tempotec Sonata HD Pro actually, Tempotec is OEM. Try to find what's cheaper of the two where you live. You would probably need to buy Sonata HD Pro from their official Aliexpress store and preferably without Apple cable.They have very deacent Windows ASIO drivers which work. USB cable is the part that fails regularly so having one with cable you can change means it will probably meet your longevity requirements. Most 2V out unbalanced dongles will be sufficient to drive something up to K702 but not much more than that.
The CS43131 is still best choice for more than appropriate SINAD with class leading EMI rejection rate and low power consumption which is all important when using it with phone or dirty USB power supply (PC PSU).
You are hopefully aware how with semi open earbuds received response depends on insertation and that you won't have bass response better than averg mid sized speakers alone (60~70 Hz).
Find the K702 they aren't small to get lost that easily nor that hard to find. For semi mobile laptop use with higher impedance (150~300 Ohms) headphones not too hard to drive (and lot of extras) try considering something like Creative Sound Blaster G6 especially if you can get it for cheap. Their drivers are a bit pain in the ass but they work mostly.
Best regards and have fun.

 

[OK1]

I'd like to add. Having narrowed down any crackling noises, to CPU running out of steam, I'm really happy with my current setup. Used predominantly for critical listening, and casual listening to prerecorded published music/audio.

Streaming from Youtube/Spotify the free service --> VB Audio Asio Bridge Hifi Cable -> Reaper DAW (Processing with my preferred crossfeed flavour of the day, which today is the Meier setting in the bs2R crossfeed plugin by Liqube) ---> WASAPI on Windows 10 ---> USB-A to USB-C adapter ---> Samsung USB-C to 3.5 mm dongle ---> Sony MDR-E9LP earbud headphones.

Checking levels in the final output from the DAW, at the loudest point at which I can still comfortably listen to music, there is still at least 35dB of headroom remaining, i.e. the audio out is peaking at no more than about -35dBFS.

I'm extremely pleased with the audio result. If it's very well produced music like Ed Sheeran, it sounds fabulous. It took me about a week of intense auditioning, and after extensive listening, I conclude - I'm happy. If anything sounds terrible or less than good enough - its the source that's the problem. The audio chain is reproducing accurately to my hearing - what was in the source.

I've turned off all EQ, cos I ended up appreciating that these headphones were delivering just what was needed, a huge ability to distinguish, from one track to another, and able to do this especially also when quiet or loud. In a quiet street in a quiet home, I have never heard any noise whatsoever - none. If there is any distortion, its right there in the source, e.g on some of Emeli Sande's 1st album - which shocked me, cos I have been listening to her album over a period of 10 years or more, and never heard this until over the last few days - certain tracks on the album have easily discernible undesirable distortion, that is now repeatably audible, on the current setup.

I'll stick with the current setup, and for now the only addition will be the Apple dongle - US version, which is in the post, on its way to me.

I'll spend the XMAS/New Year season, taking my time to thoroughly consider the next step up in headphones IEM most likely, and dongle, based on all the advice received so far. Purchasing is likely to be in 1st Quarter 2024.

One advantage of the earbuds has been, I can listen to music from my laptop, in bed, and they are so light, I almost forget that I'm wearing them.