Music Streaming - Amazon Firestick Vs HEOS - Quality Differences?

[Poultrygeist]

This is exactly what I am getting in Results. Amazon Ulta/HD music just plain sounds better via built-in HEOS on my Marantz NR-1711...vastly better! Especially better running in direct pure mode and using my Bowers and Wilkins 606s2 Anniversary, It even gets better when I switch my speakers to my Elekit TU-8200dx tube amp running off the front preamp outs of the 1711. It just sounds incredible. I picked up a Firestick 4K Max and turned on all of the Ultra HD settings and the firestick sounds good but not near as good as the HEOS. I will have people over and play the difference and their jaw drops open. Now I am curious if even a great DAC can outdo the HEOS? I am also tempted to get a dragonfly USB DAC and compare my ipad with Apple Music lossless.

For Amazon Ultra/HD have you tried the Firestick plugged into a HDMI audio extractor with the extractor's optical feeding a stand alone DAC? Many AVR's skimp on their internal DAC.

 

[jdpurvis]

For Amazon Ultra/HD have you tried the Firestick plugged into a HDMI audio extractor with the extractor's optical feeding a stand alone DAC? Many AVR's skimp on their internal DAC.

If the issue is the HEOS interface, Audirvana does a great job of streaming to my Denon 6700 over ethernet or wifi. It will stream up to 24/192, either from local files or Qobuz. It is also compatible with Tidal, but, since I have not used Tidal, I cannot comment on its capabilities. Audirvana can do MQA, if you like that. I do not know about Amazon or Apple capabilities. Another option for a Denon receiver is streaming from a local USB or SSD connected to its front panel USB port - though this does use the previously mentioned HEOS interface. An additional local/Qobuz option would be Sonos, for up to 24 bit files. It cannot handle higher than 44 or 48 kHz AFAIK. It is compatible with Tidal and Amazon, however (I checked the Sonos site). I hope this is helpful.

 

[MabeHall]

For 2 channel music streaming, I've been using Amazon Music HD, streamed over Wi-Fi from my phone's HEOS app to a Denon X4500H.

I really don't like the HEOS interface at all, so I wanted to try streaming over the Amazon Music App, which is vastly better. In order to accomplish this, I picked up a Firestick 4K Max. From a usability / interface, perspective, it works great as expected. But after over a week with the Firestick, I'm having what appears to be a small issue, but I honestly can't tell if it's just psychoacoustic weirdness messing with me or not.

When streaming through the Firestick itself or via the Amazon Music app on my phone, I am seemingly losing a small amount of audio quality versus the same tracks played through HEOS. When using the Firestick, songs tend to sound ever-so-slightly more compressed / bit-starved. I took some quick and dirty SPL readings, and noticed no differences there, so it doesn't appear to be a volume disparity. It's difficult to describe, but when streamed through HEOS, tracks seem to sound just a tinge more full, effortless, and open.

I do know that there is an issue between the Firestick and Denon receivers, where the Firestick reads Denons as only 16 bit capable rather than 24 bit, so every track gets knocked down to 16 bit. I thought this might be playing a role, but I noticed the same quality disparity happening with native 16 bit tracks as well. Would there be any reason that this might actually be occuring, or am I just imagining things? Could there be a setting I'm missing? I have the Firestick outputting in PCM and I turned off volume equalization from the Amazon Music app. It's also set to stream in "Ultra HD".

Thanks.

I posted an issue with this but…in the Firestick menu, go to the audio setting and change to PCM. Then if you use the “info” setting on a track in Amazon Music, you will see the the song resolution, ”playing at resolution“, and device capability all playing at a high resolution. And yes, I am almost sure will hear the difference. It sounds like playing from HEOS but the interface is better.

 

[Musty]

My impression of Amazon Music through a (non-HD) Firestick is the audio is pretty bad. Whether that's down to the stick, the codec, the amp or my ears is moot. The stick is attached to an AVR, I hate the way the information about the track displays on the TV so that might have an adverse affect on my opinion of the audio.

 

[Brantome]

Playing Amazon Music from the Amazon Music app on a Fire TV device (or that app native on any other device for that matter) is not bit perfect - despite what the display might tell you. It plays everything at the max resolution of the device it's connected to, so for example if your DAC/Amp supports up to 24/192, everything is played at that resolution irrespective of the track's source resolution. If your DAC/amp can display the incoming resolution, you should see it displaying 24/192, for example, even if the track is 16/44.1.

Heos and similar devices using their app can deliver bit perfect output. As I said earlier, go for a WiiM Mini or Pro for bit perfect playback even when casting from the Amazon Music app.

 

[MabeHall]

Playing Amazon Music from the Amazon Music app on a Fire TV device (or that app native on any other device for that matter) is not bit perfect - despite what the display might tell you. It plays everything at the max resolution of the device it's connected to, so for example if your DAC/Amp supports up to 24/192, everything is played at that resolution irrespective of the track's source resolution. If your DAC/amp can display the incoming resolution, you should see it displaying 24/192, for example, even if the track is 16/44.1.

Heos and similar devices using their app can deliver bit perfect output. As I said earlier, go for a WiiM Mini or Pro for bit perfect playback even when casting from the Amazon Music app.

OK, but if the Firestick is seeing, say, 24/96 PCM from Amazon Music, and outputting 24/192 PCM to the AVR, I doubt if there is any degradation. But, if the audio setting in Firestick is set to auto, the Firestick appears to see the Denon AVR as an Atmos capable device and outputs 16/48---and it doesn't sound right. With the PCM output it sounds just like using Heos but the Amazon Music interface is better and ur using an Hdmi input.

 

[Brantome]

OK, but if the Firestick is seeing, say, 24/96 PCM from Amazon Music, and outputting 24/192 PCM to the AVR, I doubt if there is any degradation. But, if the audio setting in Firestick is set to auto, the Firestick appears to see the Denon AVR as an Atmos capable device and outputs 16/48---and it doesn't sound right. With the PCM output it sounds just like using Heos but the Amazon Music interface is better and ur using an Hdmi input.

My experience with using the Heos app ( rubbish as it is) on a HEOS Link HS2 using coax into my Linn MDSM/4 was that it was bit perfect and sounded so much better and full bodied than my 2nd gen fire tv cube over HDMI into the same amp (and yes, i did have the cube’s audio set appropriately).

The Fire TV cube input constantly showed 24/192 no matter what and sounded thin in comparison whatever the upsampling had done to the signal.

I dropped both the HS2 and Cube for Amazon Music when I got my WiiM Mini (now Pro) as it allows bit perfect playback from its app as well as casting from the android/iOS Amazon Music app which again has a much better interface than the equivalent app on a fire tv device.

 

[MabeHall]

My experience with using the Heos app ( rubbish as it is) on a HEOS Link HS2 using coax into my Linn MDSM/4 was that it was bit perfect and sounded so much better and full bodied than my 2nd gen fire tv cube over HDMI into the same amp (and yes, i did have the cube’s audio set appropriately).

The Fire TV cube input constantly showed 24/192 no matter what and sounded thin in comparison whatever the upsampling had done to the signal.

I dropped both the HS2 and Cube for Amazon Music when I got my WiiM Mini (now Pro) as it allows bit perfect playback from its app as well as casting from the android/iOS Amazon Music app which again has a much better interface than the equivalent app on a fire tv device.

Are you happy with the Amazon Music interface and WiiM? Are you using a coax or fiber connection between the WiiM and an Avr.?

 

[Brantome]

Are you happy with the Amazon Music interface and WiiM? Are you using a coax or fiber connection between the WiiM and an Avr.?

Very happy as you can cast bit perfect from the Amazon Music app too which is unique to WiiM devices. And yes, I use the WiiM’s digital output into my Linn MDSM/4

 

[Phuny12000]

Late reply but the audio has to be set to auto on the device or TV the firestick is connected to
Too play Atmos etc and the sound on the firestick has always been too low with no preout adjustment
Everything hi Res i have to play using firestick but for 16 bit I use my Nvidia shield and it's way better and louder
If you watch videos VLC player has loads of info and also a canny equaliser that helps greatly especially voices

 

[IKHL]

For 2 channel music streaming, I've been using Amazon Music HD, streamed over Wi-Fi from my phone's HEOS app to a Denon X4500H.

I really don't like the HEOS interface at all, so I wanted to try streaming over the Amazon Music App, which is vastly better. In order to accomplish this, I picked up a Firestick 4K Max. From a usability / interface, perspective, it works great as expected. But after over a week with the Firestick, I'm having what appears to be a small issue, but I honestly can't tell if it's just psychoacoustic weirdness messing with me or not.

When streaming through the Firestick itself or via the Amazon Music app on my phone, I am seemingly losing a small amount of audio quality versus the same tracks played through HEOS. When using the Firestick, songs tend to sound ever-so-slightly more compressed / bit-starved. I took some quick and dirty SPL readings, and noticed no differences there, so it doesn't appear to be a volume disparity. It's difficult to describe, but when streamed through HEOS, tracks seem to sound just a tinge more full, effortless, and open.

I do know that there is an issue between the Firestick and Denon receivers, where the Firestick reads Denons as only 16 bit capable rather than 24 bit, so every track gets knocked down to 16 bit. I thought this might be playing a role, but I noticed the same quality disparity happening with native 16 bit tracks as well. Would there be any reason that this might actually be occuring, or am I just imagining things? Could there be a setting I'm missing? I have the Firestick outputting in PCM and I turned off volume equalization from the Amazon Music app. It's also set to stream in "Ultra HD".

Thanks.

I have a Marantz SR8015 with Heos. Yes playing Amazon Music UHD stream via the Heos app is great, but I've tried casting directly to the Marantz with my Amazon music app from my phone. The audio also sounds great, but there is no bitate info on the Marantz app. Anyone has the same experience?

 

[Brantome]

I have a Marantz SR8015 with Heos. Yes playing Amazon Music UHD stream via the Heos app is great, but I've tried casting directly to the Marantz with my Amazon music app from my phone. The audio also sounds great, but there is no bitate info on the Marantz app. Anyone has the same experience?

While it may sound great using AlexaCast, the best you will be getting will be HD if indeed not just lossy SD. Can’t your Marantz show the bit depth and sample rate? If it did, it might well show 16/44.1 but that would be a PCM stream converted from the lossy SD track. And not showing the resolution info while casting is standard for the Amazon Music app unfortunatel.

This is common for all devices that use the HeoS Alexa skill (or Yamaha’s MusicCast for that matter) - if you want bit perfect casting up to 24/192 from the Amazon Music app, get a WiiM device.

 

[MabeHall]

So I let this topic go for a few weeks and have only been streaming Amazon Music HD over the Firestick 4K. I decided to spin up the same tracks on HEOS again, and dammit, they just sound better via HEOS. Am I 100% certain that it's not in my head? No, but I'm 95% certain. I tried switching between the two with the Firestick volume leveled up by anywhere between 1dB and 3dB versus the HEOS, and this did not address the discrepancies I'm hearing. Through HEOS, music sounds...cleaner? More open? More natural? It's not a dramatic difference, but I hear it all the same.

If Amazon HD would only allow custom playlists over HEOS (search by song would be nice, too) I'd be done with this nonsense, but nope, Amazon's gonna Amazon. Do I have other options for streaming? I'm not necessarily married to Amazon HD, but a cursory search of others such as Tidal seems to indicate that they don't offer the same quality.

I realize ur thread is a year old but....I hope u get this. I have had and am having the same problems. My heos sounds unbelievable but the Amazon interface sucks. I think I did everything u did including firestick AND changing the firestick settings. No matter what, heos sounded better. I then bought a WiiM Pro Plus, though still using just the digital output and the coax input to my Denon x4400h. WiiM converts FLAC to PCM but it should still be bit perfect. WiiM does not change the resolution. While closer to heos, i still think heos has a slightly better sound--but why? Yesterday I watched a video on the new 6800 receiver. In the video it was mentioned that all Deon receivers use the same dedicated heos module (ckt board). They even held one up. Now, how that module connects internally to the dac vs. how a coax connection or hdmi connection does may be the answer to the difference we are hearing---or think we're hearing! How to find the real answer? You got me but if you've heard anything new please let me know.

 

[Beershaun]

I realize ur thread is a year old but....I hope u get this. I have had and am having the same problems. My heos sounds unbelievable but the Amazon interface sucks. I think I did everything u did including firestick AND changing the firestick settings. No matter what, heos sounded better. I then bought a WiiM Pro Plus, though still using just the digital output and the coax input to my Denon x4400h. WiiM converts FLAC to PCM but it should still be bit perfect. WiiM does not change the resolution. While closer to heos, i still think heos has a slightly better sound--but why? Yesterday I watched a video on the new 6800 receiver. In the video it was mentioned that all Deon receivers use the same dedicated heos module (ckt board). They even held one up. Now, how that module connects internally to the dac vs. how a coax connection or hdmi connection does may be the answer to the difference we are hearing---or think we're hearing! How to find the real answer? You got me but if you've heard anything new please let me know.

I consistently find that streaming directly to my receiver sounds better than from my firesticks. Both on my Denon and my Anthem. I also don't know why. I think it has to do with the signal level from streaming vs. The firesticks. It also could be whatever the firesticks do internally when they mess around with the signal on the way out, or it could have something to do with whatever noise is introduced via HDMI. I'd love to see someone try to quantify what is different between direct streaming and a fire TV stick via HDMI.

 

[mj30250]

I realize ur thread is a year old but....I hope u get this. I have had and am having the same problems. My heos sounds unbelievable but the Amazon interface sucks. I think I did everything u did including firestick AND changing the firestick settings. No matter what, heos sounded better. I then bought a WiiM Pro Plus, though still using just the digital output and the coax input to my Denon x4400h. WiiM converts FLAC to PCM but it should still be bit perfect. WiiM does not change the resolution. While closer to heos, i still think heos has a slightly better sound--but why? Yesterday I watched a video on the new 6800 receiver. In the video it was mentioned that all Deon receivers use the same dedicated heos module (ckt board). They even held one up. Now, how that module connects internally to the dac vs. how a coax connection or hdmi connection does may be the answer to the difference we are hearing---or think we're hearing! How to find the real answer? You got me but if you've heard anything new please let me know.

I never really pursued it further. The HEOS app made a handful of improvements over the past year or so and while I'd certainly still prefer a better UX / UI, it's mostly tolerable now.

 

[Legfitter]

Hi there, found this thread randomly and just thought I would share something that I found with my firestick while listening to music. I was having a similar issue where somehow the music just didn't feel it had any depth, even at the max 24 bit setting. What fixed it for me was turning off the volume leveller in the fire stick settings. I subsequently learned that these work by controlling the dynamic range. So, in essence if it's switched on the range is compressed. On a Samsung 11.1.4 system the difference was palpable - much more range of bass in particular. In case it helps.

Now if they could just make their Amazon Music app's Dolby Atmos consistently come out of the correct speakers...

 

[johfreeraja]

You guys are not wrong. The HEOS app on my Marantz 7013 vs. the FireTV CUBE, connected to the same unit, provides significantly better audio. Volume and clarity for the highs and lows is more pronounced. As of a couple of months ago the HEOS app now lets me access my personal playlist on my Amazon Music account. I had to update the HEOS app, because I hadn't used it in awhile, and to my surprise, my playlist are now accessible via the HEOS/Amazon music interface.

 

[davidc]

You guys are not wrong. The HEOS app on my Marantz 7013 vs. the FireTV CUBE, connected to the same unit, provides significantly better audio. Volume and clarity for the highs and lows is more pronounced. As of a couple of months ago the HEOS app now lets me access my personal playlist on my Amazon Music account. I had to update the HEOS app, because I hadn't used it in awhile, and to my surprise, my playlist are now accessible via the HEOS/Amazon music interface.

I also posting on another thread right now with the same questions.

I have a Denon AVR-x4800h. I did hear that the HEOS app will allow HD and UHD streaming with "built in Heos software".

I've also just found that I can use the Amazon Music app on my phone to cast. It casts using the "square" casting icon, not the "round" one. I have an Android phone. It seems to automatically launch HEOS, but I do not have to interact with HEOS at all. Even though the interface was vastly improved with the update 1/11/24, the Amazon Music interface is just so much better.

My question is whether the streaming is HD/UHD if I use the Amazon app rather than the HEOS app to select music. Denon states the HEOS app allows the HD/UHD, but it doesn't state if that's any different if I use the Amazon app, even though the HEOS app launched automatically (and shows my current song if I switch to it).

The question is difficult to answer because Amazon will not say the streaming info when casting. It says the info is not available while casting. How can we figure this out?

 

[Brantome]

I also posting on another thread right now with the same questions.

I have a Denon AVR-x4800h. I did hear that the HEOS app will allow HD and UHD streaming with "built in Heos software".

I've also just found that I can use the Amazon Music app on my phone to cast. It casts using the "square" casting icon, not the "round" one. I have an Android phone. It seems to automatically launch HEOS, but I do not have to interact with HEOS at all. Even though the interface was vastly improved with the update 1/11/24, the Amazon Music interface is just so much better.

My question is whether the streaming is HD/UHD if I use the Amazon app rather than the HEOS app to select music. Denon states the HEOS app allows the HD/UHD, but it doesn't state if that's any different if I use the Amazon app, even though the HEOS app launched automatically (and shows my current song if I switch to it).

The question is difficult to answer because Amazon will not say the streaming info when casting. It says the info is not available while casting. How can we figure this out?

The square icon is ChromeCast while the round one is AlexaCast. While Amazon have said lossless Amazon Music isn’t supported by ChronmeCast but I suspect it does deliver HD

 

[davidc]

The square icon is ChromeCast while the round one is AlexaCast. While Amazon have said lossless Amazon Music isn’t supported by ChronmeCast but I suspect it does deliver HD

Just gotta figure out how that coorelates with the Denon HEOS statement of the contrary. There has got to be someway that someone can measure exactly whats being streamed to the AVR through the WiFi connection. On the phone, I'm sure "there's an app for that?. But how to do it for the AVR?