Moved to new house. Big Dips 50-70hz and boost from 100-200hz and dip from 5k to 10k

[Erizo]

I have took this measurement more than once using the MEMS mic and have used ARC 2.5 and 3 and get the same result.

Why is there such a big dip at 50-70hz a boost from 100-200hz and dip from 5k-10k ????

What would be the best way to fix outside of the room correction software?

 

[Ron Texas]

Move your speakers around. I would try closer to the front wall first.

 

[DonH56]

The 50 and 70 Hz nulls are likely from room modes (see an online calculator) and moving the listening position and/or adding appropriately placed and phase subs is the usual (if not only) practical solution). The broad boost and fall looks to me more like a target EQ curve (designed into the speaker) or normal in-room response due to SBIR and such. As @Ron Texas said moving the speakers may help, though I would tend to move them out from walls to reduce the boost, and again moving the listening position may be needed. The response drops rapidly from about 3.3 kHz to 5 kHz then flattens, perhaps even rises a bit. That seems a bit odd and I wonder if it is intrinsic to the speaker or perhaps there is absorption in the room that kicks in at that point (coverings, furniture, etc.) You could try hanging some heavy plastic sheets around to see if you can determine the cause.

HTH - Don

 

[Ron Texas]

@DonH56 I would try all sorts of positions until a pattern emerges. What I am thinking is to get a quarter wave cancellation around 150 Hz to knock out the bump there. Like you, I have a feeling the speakers don't have a flat response to start with.

 

[Erizo]

@Ron Texas @DonH56 If I move from listening position back about 10-15 inches the bass response sounds much better to my ears. So I am thinking to move my desk back and leave speakers where they are and run the ARC 3 analysis again. I will also move the speakers back towards the wall a bit more and see what happens. Also one of my speakers have been tested on this site here so you can see the freq response in a testing environment. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...io-core-47-review-professional-monitor.25113/

Here is my room dimensions (In Feet 18.7L x15.4Wx11H). With room mode calc https://i.ibb.co/9GVDwwt/Screenshot-2023-04-30-21-34-13-84-40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

 

[TheZebraKilledDarwin]

I have took this measurement more than once using the MEMS mic and have used ARC 2.5 and 3 and get the same result.

Why is there such a big dip at 50-70hz a boost from 100-200hz and dip from 5k-10k ????

What would be the best way to fix outside of the room correction software?
View attachment 287064

Does the corrected response tend to sound harsh in loud scenes?
Do silent dialogues (still) tend to become unintelligible?

 

[DonH56]

@Ron Texas @DonH56 If I move from listening position back about 10-15 inches the bass response sounds much better to my ears. So I am thinking to move my desk back and leave speakers where they are and run the ARC 3 analysis again. I will also move the speakers back towards the wall a bit more and see what happens. Also one of my speakers have been tested on this site here so you can see the freq response in a testing environment. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...io-core-47-review-professional-monitor.25113/

Here is my room dimensions (In Feet 18.7L x15.4Wx11H). With room mode calc https://i.ibb.co/9GVDwwt/Screenshot-2023-04-30-21-34-13-84-40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

Sounds like a plan! Nulls from room modes can be narrow and deep so just a little movement in position can really help.

Bob Gold's calculator is nice and very complete, but I also like the Excel spreadsheet from the Harman site from this page: https://www.harman.com/audio-innovations Calculators are down the page a bit after the (very worth reading) white papers.

Note (most) all of these calculators assume a closed rectangular room. A rectangular room will have a fundamental null in the exact center, right where many of us stick the listening spot.

HTH - Don

 

[Erizo]

@DonH56 @Ron Texas This is now with both monitors moved back half way between my desk about 17 inches from the wall. The speakers sound so much more defined bass is tight and punchy. So putting the speakers closer to the wall closed that 50-80hz gap alot. Do you think I could get any better than that if I move it even more to the wall? They are front ported so maybe it will be ok? There is still the boosted freq but the room correction brings that down.

 

[Ron Texas]

The "after" curve looks pretty good to me.

 

[TheZebraKilledDarwin]

The "after" curve looks pretty good to me.

The question is, if "after" is a measured curve. I don't know ARC, but Sonarworks and Audyssey are not verifying the calibration. Predictions do not work for cancellations. Boosting the cancellations in the bassrange, as the image suggests, should be avoided, because it reduces headroom and increases distortion.

 

[Ron Texas]

The question is, if "after" is a measured curve. I don't know ARC, but Sonarworks and Audyssey are not verifying the calibration. Predictions do not work for cancellations. Boosting the cancellations in the bassrange, as the image suggests, should be avoided, because it reduces headroom and increases distortion.

Agree. Some cancellations can't be eq'ed out.

 

[Erizo]

Does the corrected response tend to sound harsh in loud scenes?
Do silent dialogues (still) tend to become unintelligible?

Very well produced music sounds amazing.

 

[DonH56]

@DonH56 @Ron Texas This is now with both monitors moved back half way between my desk about 17 inches from the wall. The speakers sound so much more defined bass is tight and punchy. So putting the speakers closer to the wall closed that 50-80hz gap alot. Do you think I could get any better than that if I move it even more to the wall? They are front ported so maybe it will be ok? There is still the boosted freq but the room correction brings that down.View attachment 287379

I'm with @Ron Texas: the "after" plots are very good. I suspect, as others mentioned, that they are extrapolated (calculated) and not actually measured but if it sounds good I'd quit futzing and enjoy.

The LF nulls you probably cannot do much more about unless you move the MLP. Moving the speakers boosted the 65-90 Hz region (though EQ reduced it back), exacerbated the 100 Hz null, and does not appear to have done a lot for the hump above 100 Hz. Moving them further back is OK since they are front ported, but I suspect will not improve things, and may sound worse because other boundaries may be closer. You can always try and see.

I do not know ARC, but most correction systems have almost infinite attenuation ("cut") but only 10 dB or so of boost, so correcting peaks (by attenuating them) is not hard but boosting nulls very difficult. This is a good thing, as boosting a null caused by a room mode or SBIR will make the sound very boomy elsewhere and wastes a LOT of power (a 10 dB boost requires 10x the power), for little improvement. A null from cancellations means direct sound D and reflected sound R cancel: D - R = 0. If you boost the null by a factor or 10, the reflection is also boosted, so you get 10D - 10R = 0 -- still a null, only now you are wasting 10x the power.

If you really want to check the "after" measurements, I suggest picking up a UMIK-1 (~$100) or other measurement mic and downloading REW (free) to do your own analysis. Much more revealing, but also a much deeper rabbit hole...

HTH - Don

 

[FrankW]

Also one of my speakers have been tested on this site here so you can see the freq response in a testing environment.

As I suspected, your tweeters directivity collapses >5k. But the on axis is relatively flat.

The directivity narrowing is why your mic "summed" response took a dive > 5k

This is textbook for why you should NOT apply EQ at LP above transition without anechoic data. If you remeasured your speaker quasi-anechoic, around 1m you should now see a significant boost > 5k (like Amirs measurement, with 3+ db added > 5k). Difficult to believe you don't find this quite bright. Of course, you only have to please your ears.

 

[Erizo]

As I suspected, your tweeters directivity collapses >5k. But the on axis is relatively flat.

The directivity narrowing is why your mic "summed" response took a dive > 5k

This is textbook for why you should NOT apply EQ at LP above transition without anechoic data. If you remeasured your speaker quasi-anechoic, around 1m you should now see a significant boost > 5k (like Amirs measurement, with 3+ db added > 5k). Difficult to believe you don't find this quite bright. Of course, you only have to please your ears.

After I took the measurement I applied the "dark" setting dip switch which seems to tame the brightness. What do you mean by LP?

 

[FrankW]

Listening Position area. Presumably where your mic was when "Advanced Room Correction System" was applied to >5k

 

[Thomas_A]

After I took the measurement I applied the "dark" setting dip switch which seems to tame the brightness. What do you mean by LP?

You should measure the on-axis response at 1 meter with gating to investigate >1kHz and correct that if needed. I suspect you should reduce the 2.5-4 kHz region with 2-3 dB but leave the rest.

 

[Erizo]

Listening Position area. Presumably where your mic was when "Advanced Room Correction System" was applied to >5k

I will tell you that if I go about 12 inches forward the bass response cancels out. So I moved my chair back a bit until it improved. That's where I based the new measurements from.

 

[FrankW]

I will tell you that if I go about 12 inches forward the bass response cancels out. So I moved my chair back a bit until it improved. That's where I based the new measurements from.

Exactly as you should for bass, <500 Hz or so. Above, not so much. If you want to apply EQ there, assuming good QC on Dynaudios part, EQ based on Amirs on axis measurement, very carefully, making sure the off axis tracks (linear correction).

 

[Erizo]

Exactly as you should for bass, <500 Hz or so. Above, not so much. If you want to apply EQ there, assuming good QC on Dynaudios part, EQ based on Amirs on axis measurement, very carefully, making sure the off axis tracks (linear correction).

So you are saying to reduce the eq on below 500 but leave the rest as is?