MM vs MI vs MC

[MakeMineVinyl]

No that's not it. The one I have has a yellow background with a watercolor type picture of the trio. I got it at acoustic sounds. In the liner notes they talk about West Montgomery being a new discovery so I assumed it's the first album. I could be wrong but it's a good album regardless.

Hmmm...well, here's his discography:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/129805-Wes-Montgomery?page=1

https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/...Wes_Montgomery_Trio-FLAC_192kHz24bit_Download

 

[watchnerd]

https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/...Wes_Montgomery_Trio-FLAC_192kHz24bit_Download

Ah, I was looking under his own name, not under 'Wes Montgomery Trio'.

This must be the version you have. $110+ now that it's out of print:

https://www.discogs.com/The-Wes-Montgomery-Trio-A-Dynamic-New-Sound-GuitarOrganDrums/release/3949292

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Ah, I was looking under his own name, not under 'Wes Montgomery Trio'.

This must be the version you have. $110+ now that it's out of print:

https://www.discogs.com/The-Wes-Montgomery-Trio-A-Dynamic-New-Sound-GuitarOrganDrums/release/3949292

I guess in that case I could consider the $50 I paid for it a bargain!

 

[watchnerd]

I guess in that case I could consider the $50 I paid for it a bargain!

If I look at the "Max Price" that Discogs thinks my collection is worth, it's shamefully high.

Like worth more than the current resale value of both of our cars combined.

But Discogs lies...

 

[watchnerd]

@Helicopter

I'm going to give the VM540ML until 12/31 to have its time in the system, but then it has to go into the corral.

I can't rack up more hours on the VM540ML than it's big brother, the ART9XA.

 

[EJ3]

I just got a 310MC (and an Ortofon OMP 30) thrown in with an SL-10 I found at a hard to resist price. I haven't gotten it set up yet, but I thought I'd try to do some comparisons.

Given how much I don't enjoy setting up cartridges, the P-mount might actually get me off my ass to try it.

I'm trying to get a cheap taste before I do much more.

I am very happy with my SHURE ULTRA 300 P-mount (V15 V MR tip beryllium tube cantilever, tip mass 0.19mg, on my Technics SL-M3 tracking at 1.25 g). As to the capacitance, on my APT/Holman pre I adjust it's pFd to my liking. Flat or not.

 

[EJ3]

Why?

I have one, anyway, for work. But I don't install non-work software on it.

What about a Windows Emulator?

 

[EJ3]

I wish I could try an SL7 again with today's equipment and sensibilities! I always liked the SL10 with its MC cartridge and phono amp, but the 7 (as well as the well reviewed 205III cartridge apparently closely related to the SL7 original fitment) always sounded a bit hard and relentless in our soggy-vinyl optimied UK 'flat earth' stereos (I won't call them hifi systems 'cos they weren't back then!). Today, with well sorted digital, UK made amps without upper range hardness and some better behaved speakers available, the SL7 may well 'sound' a lot better integrated than it did forty years ago when it first appeared on our shores (really that long ago?). Apparently most suffer tonearm drive belt issues but no idea on the mech and sensors under the platter.

Some of the other things are a PITA but belts seem to be available (at least mine are for the SL-M3, as the same belt was also used for other things).

 

[EJ3]

By the way it is tracking at 1.25 grams, which I like for wear on my LPs

I use 1.25 as my 'go to' in my setups. I deem more to be too much wear and less to be perhaps not good enough trackability (which can cause wear also).

 

[watchnerd]

I adjust it's pFd to my liking. Flat or not.

I try not to set pF by ear unless I cannot get access to specs to model, as it can lead to madness and audiophilia nervosa.

So speaking of modeling...

Using the Hagerman calculator, here are the results I get for the resonant frequency of the Nagaoka MP-500, assuming:

--720 mH inductance of my MP-500 is true to factory spec
--58 pF of my SME tonearm cable is true to factory spec
--Devialet can bet set to loading increments from 0-700 pF in 100 pF steps

And the corresponding optimal resistance loadings, predicted by the calculator, are:

111.4 kOhm @ 58 pF
67.5 kOhm @158 pF
52.8 kOhm@ 258pF

So...

58pF and 158 pF have the least intrusive resonances in the audio band (especially with my hearing rolling off at 15kHz).

But 258 pF is closest to the 47 kOhm resistance the phono stage is set for.

Shall I pick the "Goldilocks" option of 158 pF that is close on the resistance load?

Or go for 58 pF and try to add load resistors to the phono inputs?

 

[EJ3]

I try not to set pF by ear unless I cannot get access to specs to model, as it can lead to madness and audiophilia nervosa.

Cartridge Specs I have but I don't know the cable specs & don't, at the moment, have a way to measure them. So I set to the spec & then adjust to what I feel might be right.

 

[watchnerd]

Cartridge Specs I have but I don't know the cable specs & don't, at the moment, have a way to measure them. So I set to the spec & then adjust to what I feel might be right.

That would drive nuts.

Maybe as bad as tube rolling.

 

[DSJR]

I use 1.25 as my 'go to' in my setups. I deem more to be too much wear and less to be perhaps not good enough trackability (which can cause wear also).

Records played with a modern Ortofon SPU with fancy-foo diamond profile at 4g don't seem to wear though. Lots was said in my audio-naivety (later 70's) about low tracking forces causing styli to ride over debris and 'bounce' back, causing groove damage. T4-P styli were optimised for 1.25g i remember although some I seem to recall, liked 1.5 instead. Many pattern styli made today seem to be set for modern tracking force sensibilities though (1.75g) but this can change with supplier and even the year the pattern stylus was made.

 

[Helicopter]

I'm now on my 4th LP with the new VM540ML.

Do we think it's broken-in yet?

(ducks)

They are always changing, but I assume they are a bit like tires; once the mold flash is gone they are going to do about the same for a while. Hard to imagine the suspension needs any more break-in, or that there are still rough spots on the laser-cut and diamond-polished stylus tip after 4 records. You have to think how tiny any high spot would be and how much pressure and energy it would see.

@Helicopter

I'm going to give the VM540ML until 12/31 to have its time in the system, but then it has to go into the corral.

I can't rack up more hours on the VM540ML than it's big brother, the ART9XA.

I guess that means I have 4-6 months to get the OC9XML before my VM95ML is about to lap the 440MLb.

 

[watchnerd]

They are always changing, but I assume they are a bit like tires; once the mold flash is gone they are going to do about the same for a while. Hard to imagine the suspension needs any more break-in, or that there are still rough spots on the laser-cut and diamond-polished stylus tip after 4 records. You have to think how tiny any high spot would be and how much pressure and energy it would see.

I'm with you.

I think the guys who claim cartridges take 100's of hours to break in are nuts.

Ortofon claims the Windfield Ti undergoes changes during the first 10-20 hours.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I use 1.25 as my 'go to' in my setups. I deem more to be too much wear and less to be perhaps not good enough trackability (which can cause wear also).

The concept of 'trackability' is not talked about much anymore, which is a shame I think. At 1 - 1.25. grams, my records have lasted my lifetime so far and still sound great.

 

[watchnerd]

The concept of 'trackability' is not talked about much anymore, which is a shame I think. At 1 - 1.25. grams, my records have lasted my lifetime so far and still sound great.

I don't read a lot about it in the subjective prose, but it does get tested.

Here are the tracking test results for the MP-500, at 1.7 g VTF:

Maximum lateral groove tracing = 80um (Left Channel)
Maximum lateral groove tracing = 75um (Right Channel)

 

[watchnerd]

Test record is supposed to arrive Wed.

Which is a good day to arrive, as it will be raining, so can't do any more home logging.

Nothing better to do than use a 60 year old test LP all day....

 

[watchnerd]

Before the test disk arrives, I might take a go at measuring the capacitance of the entire chain from cartridge, through internal tone arm wiring, and down the tone arm lead cable to the RCA plugs.

But what's the best technique for that, using a DMM?

Or to put it more specifically:

What are the best locations to put the test probes?

 

[SIY]

Before the test disk arrives, I might take a go at measuring the capacitance of the entire chain from cartridge, through internal tone arm wiring, and down the tone arm lead cable to the RCA plugs.

But what's the best technique for that, using a DMM?

Or to put it more specifically:

What are the best locations to put the test probes?

Unfortunately, I have to go to work, so I can't get into much detail here. But... a DMM will almost certainly not work for this. You need to disconnect the cartridge, inject a square wave through a large value resistor, tap the preamp circuit before the EQ is applied, then use an oscilloscope to measure the rise time and back calculate the capacitance from t = RC.

It's not trivial which is why hardly anyone (besides me) does it in phono preamp reviews.