Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)

[Ultrasonic]

Video delay is caused by processing time and only adjustable my TV Mode.
To the gamer, the lag is between the movement, the display of the movement and the sound.
This is why low latency displays are sought after.

I don't think that's quite right. For gaming I think it's the time delay between controller inputs and what is seen on screen that matters, rather than anything to do with audio. (I do play video games on a PS4 but not competitively online where this sort of thing really matters! I am familiar with low-latency games modes though and have used them for years.)

I am going to have a play about with my own setup when I get chance though as you've got me wondering about it now...

I have read (somehwere) of Dirac delays in to 20 to 40 ms range, which is quite large. If using a processor for subwoofers, this becomes important since each ms is about 1 foot. Integrating subwoofers starts to get problematic with long delays which is why I would look for a low latency DSP/PEQ for that purpose. Unless we know more about Dirac delays, I would stay away from it for that purpose.

Typically subwoofers are further away than main speakers which will help. I'm not sure what sort of delay ranges modern AV receivers typically allow to be added though. Modern DSP subs tend to have their own delay adjustment too (mine does). I think this is getting off-topic for the OP though .

 

[RichB]

I am frequently amazed at how much further along video is than audio.
All processors should include measurements of delay.

There are no firm answers concerning PEQ/Dirac delays. I don't see why the SHD should be considered an audio only product, though I expect that is the majority use case.

- Rich

 

[Ultrasonic]

I've just had a play with a few audio sync tests on YouTube and I'm now sure that the audio from my SHD (via Toslink) is delayed relative to the sound from my TV speakers, which in turn are in sync with the video as best I can judge. If I have the sound from both sources playing together then a periodic high frequency sound appears as two sounds. If I increase the delay on the SHD output the two sounds get further out of sync rather than closer together, so the SHD must have been behind to begin with.

The discrepancy isn't so large that it's grossly obvious on the sync test videos but based on the following one the 30 ms delay that has been discussed seems in the right ballpark.

 

[RichB]

I've just had a play with a few audio sync tests on YouTube and I'm now sure that the audio from my SHD (via Toslink) is delayed relative to the sound from my TV speakers, which in turn are in sync with the video as best I can judge. If I have the sound from both sources playing together then a periodic high frequency sound appears as two sounds. If I increase the delay on the SHD output the two sounds get further out of sync rather than closer together, so the SHD must have been behind to begin with.

The discrepancy isn't so large that it's grossly obvious on the sync test videos but based on the following one the 30 ms delay that has been discussed seems in the right ballpark.

What is the signal path for audio and video?

- Rich

 

[Ultrasonic]

What is the signal path for audio and video?

YouTube native app on TV so no path to speak of there, then Toslink out to SHD.

(I'm just about to have a look/listen to my blu-ray player setup.)

 

[RichB]

YouTube native app on TV so no path to speak of there, then Toslink out to SHD.

(I'm just about to have a look/listen to my blu-ray player setup.)

The TV is likely applying delay and then additional delay is added by the SHD.
If there are features to alter or disable TV delay processing, they should be disabled and see where you are at.

- Rich

 

[Ultrasonic]

The TV is likely applying delay and then additional delay is added by the SHD.
If there are features to alter or disable TV delay processing, they should be disabled and see where you are at.

Where I'm coming from is that I think the sound from the TV speakers is always in sync with the video, both as I've never noticed an issue and from the Kef link I posted earlier. The Toslink + SHD combo is then delayed relative to this reference, which is what @badboygolf16v originally asked about. It remains a small delay as I and at least one other person have said, and how noticeable it is will depend on the individual. I can and am living with this without it particularly bugging me but if someone is going to ask me if there is any lip sync effect then to me there is.

Have you ever tried your SHD with a TV?

 

[Ultrasonic]

OK, using an analogue output of my blu-ray player into my SHD the audio from the SHD is ahead of that from my TV speakers even with zero delay set on the blu-ray player audio signal (which annoyingly doesn't affect the analogue outputs). My eyes need a break from looking at test patterns so I'll see if I can get a better handle how each relate to the video signal tomorrow.

 

[RichB]

OK, using an analogue output of my blu-ray player into my SHD the audio from the SHD is ahead of that from my TV speakers even with zero delay set on the blu-ray player audio signal (which annoyingly doesn't affect the analogue outputs). My eyes need a break from looking at test patterns so I'll see if I can get a better handle how each relate to the video signal tomorrow.

My SHD is is used for music only.

As expected, the majority of the audio delay is coming from your TV.
The original poster asked if the SHD can be used for TV but if perfect sync is desired and the TV provides the source, the TV delays may need be addressed.

- Rich

 

[Ultrasonic]

As expected, the majority of the audio delay is coming from your TV.
The original poster asked if the SHD can be used for TV but if perfect sync is desired and the TV provides the source, the TV delays may need be addressed.

Not necessarily. As per my first example where the delay was from the SHD, I believe it will depend on quite what source material is being used on the TV. The majority of my own viewing is now from apps on the TV itself.

 

[Ultrasonic]

I should perhaps add that my own movie audio setup is very atypical. I have an old blu-ray player with analogue audio outputs that I used to give true 2.1 signals (i.e. including the LFE channel), rather than relying on audio leaving the player via HDMI as most would. The left and right channels go via my SHD whilst the subwoofer signal goes via a miniDSP 2x4 HD to my sub.

I still need to check where the SHD audio signal is in relation to the picture but I think it does make sense that it may be ahead. Guessing it may be by more than the SHD's 30 ms max. delay I may experiment with making my movie audio setup even more complicated by using the TV Toslink output and applying a high-pass filter to it.

 

[LaserPope]

I suspect routing the audio over a tv could introduce more delay. My setup is different in that I only use the tv as a monitor (haven't watched flow tv in a decade So I use the computer as source for video/tv from web ect. and route the picture via HDMI to a tv and the sound via USB or optical from the computer to a dac. So it would be interesting to hear from someone who doesn't route audio over the tv and hear if they also experience sync problems.

 

[Ultrasonic]

I suspect routing the audio over a tv could introduce more delay

That would be my reason for considering doing it . I need to test more but it's possible the Toslink out would get things closer than I can manage using my current analogue signal path.

Edit: and actually I can delay the audio sent via HDMI by up to 200 ms using my blu-ray player so adjusting this to factor in Tosslink + SHD delay may work. The difficulty is possible signal duplication across main speakers and sub.

 

[RichB]

I suspect routing the audio over a tv could introduce more delay. My setup is different in that I only use the tv as a monitor (haven't watched flow tv in a decade So I use the computer as source for video/tv from web ect. and route the picture via HDMI to a tv and the sound via USB or optical from the computer to a dac. So it would be interesting to hear from someone who doesn't route audio over the tv and hear if they also experience sync problems.

Incorrect sync bothers some more than others.
In this configuration (outside of gaming modes), expect at TV to induce approximately 90 ms in movie mode.
Even if the SHD has 30 ms, it will be faster than the TV. So, the SHD delay will not be the issue.

In other applications, like subwoofer PEQ them 30+ ms could be an issue for some.
I have not seen much measurement of Dirac delays, unlike video that is measured 8 ways from Sunday.

- Rich

 

[Ultrasonic]

So I use the computer as source for video/tv from web ect. and route the picture via HDMI to a tv and the sound via USB or optical from the computer to a dac. So it would be interesting to hear from someone who doesn't route audio over the tv and hear if they also experience sync problems.

I think @RichB is probably right as this sounds like it would be similar to my Blu-ray player case.

Most of the TV content I watch is internet sourced by the way, it's just that I used apps on the TV to achieve this rather than a separate PC.

 

[RichB]

It is reported that the Monoprice HTP-1 has received its Roon Ready certification.

75+ Roon Ready Partners - Network Players, Devices & Core Servers (roonlabs.com)

Hopefully, the MiniDSP is next.

- Rich

 

[Sonnie]

It is reported that the Monoprice HTP-1 has received its Roon Ready certification.

75+ Roon Ready Partners - Network Players, Devices & Core Servers (roonlabs.com)

Hopefully, the MiniDSP is next.

- Rich

Haven't noticed it, although I probably wouldn't since I use the SHD now for Roon. Duh me!

SHD should be pretty soon... hopefully.

My second SHD will be here today... and I'll test it over the weekend.

 

[RichB]

My replacement power supply is an Alaska and scheduled delivery shows as 2/17.
Apparently, traveling by dogsled,

- Rich

 

[Sonnie]

My replacement power supply is an Alaska and scheduled delivery shows as 2/17.
Apparently, traveling by dogsled,

- Rich

Must be a shortage of dogs too (COVID?), as that is super slow from Alaska.

 

[aschen]

Got my shd this week. I got the basic setup done last night. Was pretty straight forward but I haven't used dirac yet or truly dialed in the SW.

It is a pretty nice device and has so much flexibilty. I feel like I'm in for a bit of a science project getting it dialed in how I want it. I won't get any sympathy on this forum I know, but I already sort of miss using the 30 year old tube audio research preamp it replaces. It was time to move on to more recent tech but I sure liked interfacing with a beefy aluminum remote and clunking toggle switches.