Minidsp Flex Review (Audio DSP)

[mike70]

Sorry to interrupt your discussion.
I have a naive question. Can the minidsp flex be interposed between preamp and power amp (without using it as a preamp), in a classic 2ch set? I could not find a clear answer so far. Grateful for any answer.

You can set your analog preamp at max volume (O resistance) and use the analog input/volume in the Flex.

May I ask why you need the preamp? As a switcher between many analog inputs maybe?
In that case you can use a switcher ... and not the preamp.

 

[AaronJ]

Sorry to interrupt your discussion.
I have a naive question. Can the minidsp flex be interposed between preamp and power amp (without using it as a preamp), in a classic 2ch set? I could not find a clear answer so far. Grateful for any answer.

This is exactly how I have my Flex configured. I use it between preamp and power amp, set to max. volume and use the preamp to control volume and switch between inputs. Flex also controls the subwoofer. The reason I configured this way is twofold. My preamp is also the headphone amp, and I also attenuate upstream from the Flex because the phono stage can clip it. I realize I'm not getting the full benefit of the Flex over the 2x4HD because I'm not utilizing the volume control or digital inputs, but the ADC/DAC performance of the Flex compared to the 2x4HD can't be ignored. Yeah I know, one could argue this isn't worth it for vinyl due to its faults, but I am trying to maintain that signal to the extent possible.

I really wish two of the Flex 8's outputs could be configured to act as analog inputs. I could really consolidate some equipment that way. I would route 2 of the outputs to a headphone amp and switch it off when listening to 2.1 channel, and when I want to listen to headphones I could switch off the outputs to the amp and sub. Unfortunately the Flex does not have enough outputs for an amp, subwoofer, and headphone amp.

edit: I wanted to add that upgrading to a MiniDSP SHD would take solve my issues above but it's much more expensive than the Flex. I could sell some gear though....

 

[mauriziop50]

You can set your analog preamp at max volume (O resistance) and use the analog input/volume in the Flex.

May I ask why you need the preamp? As a switcher between many analog inputs maybe?
In that case you can use a switcher ... and not the preamp.

Thanks for your answer.
No, I just wanted to keep using my preamp (a Carver C1), that I assume is better than the Flex. But perhaps this is useless because the flex will always be in the chain. Any way to use it just as DAC and DSP, without the preampli?

 

[mauriziop50]

This is exactly how I have my Flex configured. I use it between preamp and power amp, set to max. volume and use the preamp to control volume and switch between inputs. Flex also controls the subwoofer. The reason I configured this way is twofold. My preamp is also the headphone amp, and I also attenuate upstream from the Flex because the phono stage can clip it. I realize I'm not getting the full benefit of the Flex over the 2x4HD because I'm not utilizing the volume control or digital inputs, but the ADC/DAC performance of the Flex compared to the 2x4HD can't be ignored. Yeah I know, one could argue this isn't worth it for vinyl due to its faults, but I am trying to maintain that signal to the extent possible.

I really wish two of the Flex 8's outputs could be configured to act as analog inputs. I could really consolidate some equipment that way. I would route 2 of the outputs to a headphone amp and switch it off when listening to 2.1 channel, and when I want to listen to headphones I could switch off the outputs to the amp and sub. Unfortunately the Flex does not have enough outputs for an amp, subwoofer, and headphone amp.

I just saw your answer, thanks. With this configuration are you using the DIRAC correction? That is the main reason why I am interested in the Flex. Otherwise I would just stay with the preamp(s) I have.

 

[mike70]

Thanks for your answer.
No, I just wanted to keep using my preamp (a Carver C1), that I assume is better than the Flex. But perhaps this is useless because the flex will always be in the chain. Any way to use it just as DAC and DSP, without the preampli?

I doubt the analog preamp is better... very much. But, the room correction properties in the Flex will be the best improvement after all ... in my opinion, the analog preamp is absolutely disposable

 

[mauriziop50]

I doubt the analog preamp is better... very much. But, the room correction properties in the Flex will be the best improvement after all ... in my opinion, the analog preamp is absolutely disposable

Well I admit you could be right, the Carver is quite old. I could not find any test of the Flex as preamp, though.

 

[AaronJ]

I just saw your answer, thanks. With this configuration are you using the DIRAC correction? That is the main reason why I am interested in the Flex. Otherwise I would just stay with the preamp(s) I have.

Yes, this is exactly why I got the Flex. I use Dirac Live to set subwoofer crossover and to correct bass response under 300Hz. Admittedly I could do the same thing with the less-expensive 2x4HD, but the decision to get the Flex was driven by the Flex's far better measuring ADC/DAC implementation (i.e. its use as a preamp). Plus it looks nice in the hifi rack whereas the 2x4HD needs to be hidden.

 

[mike70]

Well I admit you could be right, the Carver is quite old. I could not find any test of the Flex as preamp, though.

Not only about age ... enough transparency ... is enough transparency. Even you got something "better", your noise floor, recordings quality, speakers performance, room acoustics, etc ... cannot be defeated.

That's why the DSP wins hands down over a "hiend preamp".

... and ... Amir made measurements about analog input and it was really good, something like 100dB SINAD.

 

[MAB]

Well I admit you could be right, the Carver is quite old. I could not find any test of the Flex as preamp, though.

Unless you need the connectivity of your Carver preamp tape loops... or want the sonic hologram circuity... it serves no purpose. I use the analog input to connect a preamp, but that is just me wanting to keep legacy sources like phono, tape, and tuner. From a raw performance perspective, the Carver likely is worse, certainly not better.

 

[mauriziop50]

Thanks to all of you. I guess my motivation towards the flex has increased. I need to correct a room of boom.
Just to know, my affection to the Carver goes back to when I was living and working in St. Louis (many years ago), I also got the power ampli M400A. Paired with the Celestion Ditton 66 II they have served me for many years, but now it's time for a change.
Thanks again

 

[poxymoron]

You could buy a power strip with Master/Slave function.
Once you turn off your TV and its power consumption drops below 8W (standby is <0.5W), all devices plugged into the Slave outlets are automatically disconnected from power.
Once the TV is turned on, all Slave devices are automatically connected to power with it.

There's a german manufacturer that makes these, but I'm sure you can find them elsewhere, too.

Never knew about these. Nice one.

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks for your answer.
No, I just wanted to keep using my preamp (a Carver C1), that I assume is better than the Flex. But perhaps this is useless because the flex will always be in the chain. Any way to use it just as DAC and DSP, without the preampli?

Yes, just keep it at max volume. But your preamp should go after the flex - not before it. And at the end of the day i tis pointless. You are then jest using the preamp for volume control - which the flex can do a perfectly good (if not better) job of.

 

[mauriziop50]

Yes, just keep it at max volume. But your preamp should go after the flex - not before it. And at the end of the day i tis pointless. You are then jest using the preamp for volume control - which the flex can do a perfectly good (if not better) job of.

Yes, I got it. What power ampli would be good to use with the flex? Something around 150-200 wpc. Any of these? Adcom GFA-555ii, Advance Acoustic MAA-406, Bryston 4B, Vincent SP 331. They can be found used at reasonable price. Or others?
Thanks for your help

 

[mike70]

Forget about expensive class A / AB amplifiers ... class D are cheaper and with (at least) the same real performance.

They doesn't need 1kw toroid trafo, 3 kgs on heatsinks / case, and lots of current. You can check it out with a blind listening ... or open the wallet. As you wish ... the results are the same.

 

[AaronJ]

Yes, just keep it at max volume. But your preamp should go after the flex - not before it. And at the end of the day i tis pointless. You are then jest using the preamp for volume control - which the flex can do a perfectly good (if not better) job of.

The Flex should go after the preamp so it can do subwoofer integration. It cannot do subwoofer integration if it comes before the preamp.

 

[mauriziop50]

Forget about expensive class A / AB amplifiers ... class D are cheaper and with (at least) the same real performance.

They doesn't need 1kw toroid trafo, 3 kgs on heatsinks / case, and lots of current. You can check it out with a blind listening ... or open the wallet. As you wish ... the results are the same.

I also have class D in another set. Two monoblocks Zero Zone, don't know exact power, some 3-400 wpc/8 ohm. They are dead silent (with passive preamp) and quite sharp. No heat at all, no power consuming, indeed practical. But you know, you always want to try something different.

 

[mike70]

I also have class D in another set. Two monoblocks Zero Zone, don't know exact power, some 3-400 wpc/8 ohm. They are dead silent (with passive preamp) and quite sharp. No heat at all, no power consuming, indeed practical. But you know, you always want to try something different.

that's ok ... your wishes, your money.

 

[Endibol]

It's a lovely little device. A slightly updated 2x4HD or DDRC24 if you get the Dirac License with a nice enclosure/screen/remote. The lack of all those things was the main reason it wasn't a good solution for some people.

As I already have a streamer I'm now thinking whether I should get one or go for the SHD? Fewer boxes is good, and is the performance here any y better - or do miniDSP update the internals of the SHD as they go along?

The only downside of choosing for an SHD streamer it that it uses Volumio software. The Spotify plug in works, but it is a bit cumbersome, unreliable and slow. I would go for a MiniDSP Flex with a Wiim Mini as Streamer using the Tosslink digital output. It has many advantages: WiiM Mini digital is top notch as shown in the review of the Wiim Pro by Vintage Flanker and the Wiim app is very user friendly and works perfectly with Spotify Connect. And last but not least, the WiiM Mini is a bargain..

 

[poxymoron]

The only downside of choosing for an SHD streamer it that it uses Volumio software. The Spotify plug in works, but it is a bit cumbersome, unreliable and slow. I would go for a MiniDSP Flex with a Wiim Mini as Streamer using the Tosslink digital output. It has many advantages: WiiM Mini digital is top notch as shown in the review of the Wiim Pro by Vintage Flanker and the Wiim app is very user friendly and works perfectly with Spotify Connect. And last but not least, the WiiM Mini is a bargain..

^this. And, you could even stream LDAC Bluetooth audio from your phone to the Flex until such time as you can purchase the WiiM. In a blind test I suspect most of us would struggle to hear the difference.

 

[mike70]

I'm using the recommended schematic for TRS - RCA cables to my unbalanced power amp and it works flawless.

But, with my SVS sub I have something like 6-10dB less in gain ... I needed to apply -10dB gain on the L/R main channels to have bass (hi / lo pass at 80Hz).
I'm using channel 3 for sub adding input 1+input 2. I'm doing something wrong?