McIntosh MP100 phono preamp vs Parasound JC3 Jr

[Revelation Sound]

I currently have a NAD 658 pre into a McIntosh MC152 amp. I found every time I switch from CD or streaming to phono, that the volume is much lower with my MM Cartridge. I am considering purchasing either the Parasound JC3 jr or the McIntosh MP100 phono preamp. I talked to one on line store that carry's both and was told the Parasound is cleaner and more open. That the McIntosh has some color. So unless you want the McIntosh color, he recommended the JC3 Jr. as the better preamp. I admire John Curl designs and thought about going in that direction.

However, McIntosh has a reputation of their gear being very quiet. I looked at the specs and its Total Harmonic Distortion is 0.005%. That's pretty darn good. In looking at the Parasound spec, the Total Harmonic Distortion is 0.02%. So clearly, the McIntosh is quieter preamp which is one very important feature. I also like that the MP100 is smaller and I could fit it in my stereo rack a little easier. The MP100 has a 40 db set gain. I like the Parasound has an option of 40, 50, or 60. However on the back of the unit it says MM "Typical 40 db". So I am thinking the set volume on the MP100 should be fine.

Has anyone compared the two units? Though the MP100 is quieter, is there more color than the Parasound. As I have a Grado which has some character, I would prefer a cleaner phono preamp.

 

[DVDdoug]

I kind-of doubt McIntosh has "color". Even their old tube amps always had a reputation for "clean" sound.

It seems like your main complaint is gain. The specs for the NAD say 1.44mV in for 500mV out and that's a gain of 51dB. I assume that's at 1kHz (because of the RIAA EQ) and I don't know if that includes any additional gain from the "regular" preamp stage.

Noise can be a concern but you can't compare the published specs from different manufactures because they use different measurement standards/methods. And more gain means more noise (but not necessarily a worse signal-to-noise ratio).



...Personally, I don't have money to burn and I wouldn't spend more than $200 on a preamp to play "scratchy old records".

 

[Revelation Sound]

Thank you for your comment; you make sense on some level. Then I read about how high end phono preamps open up the music and you hear more detail than cheaper phono preamps. So it has me curious.

 

[Chrispy]

Can your pre-amp adjust for volume levels between different inputs? That'd be my first approach. Or just be aware the lower input levels of cartridges can yield lower levels than digital inputs and adjust master volume accordingly when playing vinyl.....but don't think you're going to gain a lot (pun intended) with a separate phono pre-amp, even if gain is somewhat adjustable.

 

[Revelation Sound]

I am doing an experiment. I ordered a Parasound Xphono XRM phono pre. I am going to compare it to the phono pre in my NAD. So many reviews have said better phono pres provide more sound stage, separation, bass, etc. I want to see if this $500 phono pre provides a better listening experience that my current one.

One thing I prefer with the Parasound over McIntosh is even their less expensive XRM offers a gain switch between 40 db and 50 db. The Mac just offers 40 db with no option to increase the output. Though I am interested in the higher output gain, I want to see if the Parasound offers more information that sounds better.

 

[Ken1951]

Then I read about how high end phono preamps open up the music and you hear more detail than cheaper phono preamps.

This is the HE world's basic comment about any and all audio equipment. The more expensive item always is more detailed, veils are lifted, backgrounds blacker, etc, etc. More expensive always wins.

 

[GXAlan]

The Cambridge Duo has gotten great reviews here. Refurbished ones are often available from Cambridge Audio online. Generally, to get a more open/more detailed experience from LPs, you need to go from MM to MC. Moving coil can increase noise due to the higher gains required.

A great starter moving coil cartridge is the Denon DL-103. Good enough to have a noticeable *difference* compared to a good MM which will let you decide what sounds best for you.

Personally, no one picks vinyl for accuracy and so I would go with the McIntosh if I were in your situation and cost was not an issue
- has digital output
- has two inputs so you can have a MC and MM turntable

As expensive as the McIntosh is, it'll probably hold its value better.

 

[Tom C]

The McIntosh gives you the ability to digitize your vinyl, which is a nice bonus feature.
It is low noise and low distortion, so that’s a benefit.
Colored vs not colored will have mostly to do with the accuracy of RIAA correction. That specification is not listed on the McIntosh web page, but frequency response is spec’d at +/- 0.3dB from 20Hz to 20KHz. That level of variation will not be audible. It is very unlikely that the MP100 will sound colored. Not at all.
Having adjustable gain is a nice feature, but it’s not always desirable to have more gain. You do want the system to be able to be as loud as you can cleanly get, but too much gain will overdrive the input of the amp you plug the phono stage into. You can expect the MP100 and the MC152 to be well matched in this regard. This is something the McIntosh folks would pay close attention to. If you are concerned about it, you can email them directly with your question. In the past, whenever I have emailed them with a question, they have replied within a day or two with a clear and definitive answer.
The output impedance of the MP100 is 200 ohm for the balanced output, and 100 ohm for the unbalanced output. With the MC152, I’d recommend you use the balanced (XLR) connections. In general, you want the input impedance of the power amp to be at least ten times the output impedance of the phono stage, so in this case input impedance at least 2000 ohm. The owner manual states the input impedance for balanced at 20,000 ohm, so good there.
The MC152 is a beautiful piece of gear, by the way. If it were me, I would prefer the MP100 just for the polished, matching look.
Sorry, I don’t have any knowledge or experience with respect to the Parasound or the Grado. But I have some McIntosh (MC275 power amp x 2, and a C2500 preamp), and have always been very happy with the product and the service. One of the 275’s had a bad tube that blew about one week after I bought it, and the company worked with the dealer to promptly cover shipping and repair. And McIntosh will hold its value better than about anything else. Yes, it’s pretty pricey, but not nearly at the ridiculous level some of the high-end offerings get to. And you get solid engineering, good looks and brand recognition for your money, all of which are genuine value.

 

[Tom C]

P.S.
Looks like the MP100 is pretty hard to track down right now. I wonder if the dealer was trying to steer you toward buying what he had on hand to sell.

 

[LTig]

The most versatile phono preamp currently available is the Parks Audio Puffin. It would certainly fix the gain problem of the OP.

 

[DVDdoug]

Then I read about how high end phono preamps open up the music and you hear more detail than cheaper phono preamps.

This is typical meaningless "audiophile nonsense". "Opening up the music" and "detail" give you an impression or a feeling but they don't give you any meaningful information. ...Somewhere here there is a link to a video by Dan Clark (headphone manufacturer) and he says sometimes people describe headphones with distortion as "detailed".

There are only 3 characteristics that define-describe the sound quality of an amplifier. Noise, distortion, and frequency response. (In the case of a phono preamp, of course "frequency response" means the accuracy of the RIAA equalization.) ASR combines noise & distortion as SINAD.

See Audiophoolery.

Sometimes there are "technical considerations" such as input impedance (including input capacitance) and gain, and output voltage, etc. Capacitance interacts with the cartridge and it affects frequency response at the high-end.

Of course with a power amplifier, output-power is a big consideration but that doesn't affect sound quality unless it's under-powered and you over-drive it into clipping (distortion).

...With speakers and sound in a room there are additional acoustical characteristics to consider and with lossy compression (MP3 etc.) you can get artifactshat don't fit-neatly into noise, distortion, or frequency response. And with streaming you can get dropouts. But with electronics it's just those 3 things.
.

 

[GXAlan]

There are only 3 characteristics that define-describe the sound quality of an amplifier. Noise, distortion, and frequency response. (In the case of a phono preamp, of course "frequency response" means the accuracy of the RIAA equalization.) ASR combines noise & distortion as SINAD.

… But with electronics it's just those 3 things.

I would also add stereo crosstalk. If you have an even a little bit of separation, it’s good, but 60 dB is pretty reasonable target.

Vinyl has a lot of crosstalk so the cumulative effect of the phono amp might contribute to this.

The other thing is that headphone amplifiers can initially introduce crosstalk for different spatial presentation.

 

[Tom C]

This is typical meaningless "audiophile nonsense". "Opening up the music" and "detail" give you an impression or a feeling but they don't give you any meaningful information. ...Somewhere here there is a link to a video by Dan Clark (headphone manufacturer) and he says sometimes people describe headphones with distortion as "detailed".

There are only 3 characteristics that define-describe the sound quality of an amplifier. Noise, distortion, and frequency response. (In the case of a phono preamp, of course "frequency response" means the accuracy of the RIAA equalization.) ASR combines noise & distortion as SINAD.

See Audiophoolery.

Sometimes there are "technical considerations" such as input impedance (including input capacitance) and gain, and output voltage, etc. Capacitance interacts with the cartridge and it affects frequency response at the high-end.

Of course with a power amplifier, output-power is a big consideration but that doesn't affect sound quality unless it's under-powered and you over-drive it into clipping (distortion).

...With speakers and sound in a room there are additional acoustical characteristics to consider and with lossy compression (MP3 etc.) you can get artifactshat don't fit-neatly into noise, distortion, or frequency response. And with streaming you can get dropouts. But with electronics it's just those 3 things.
.

Yes, I’m afraid this is true. While this reality may be unfamiliar to the OP, it is actually quite good news, unless you are wanting to throw perfectly good money away on chasing phantoms, half-truths, and marketing BS.

 

[Revelation Sound]

Thanks everyone for your input. I had an opportunity to speak with the folks at Parasound. I advised I have the Dual CS 5000 turn table and a couple hundred dollar MM Grado cartridge with a McIntosh amp and NAD 658. Based on this information, they advised as my system would not benefit as much with their JS3 Jr phono pre compared to a stereo with a better turntable and MC cartridge. I respected him being honest with me as he directed me towards their XRM phono pre amp would be a nice setup from the one in my NAD. So I ordered the XRM and it turns out he was correct. The music was more forward, there was more bass, and a fuller sound all around. With the option between 40 and 50 of gain, the 50 db of got allowed the volume to be much closer to my streaming and CD player volume. With my current setup, I am very content with the improved performance I now have.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

The Parks Puffin optical or coax out into your favorite DAC is tough to beat, and it has an endless array of adjustments. It’s worth every penny if you’re into vinyl, and I’ll never buy another phono preamp. I already have 10 lol.

 

[Angsty]

I’d trust the dealer on this one; he
makes money on either sale but would rather not have returns.

Here is a subjective review of the MP100 which mirrors what the dealer said.

McIntosh MP100 Phono Stage With Analog And Hi-Res Audio Digital Output Andrew Harrison reviews McIntosh's first ever phono stage, complete with D-to-A conversion. Review By Andrew Harrison

McIntosh MP100 Phono Stage With Analog And Hi-Res Audio Digital Output Andrew Harrison reviews McIntosh's first ever phono stage, complete with D-to-A conversion. Review By Andrew Harrison of HIFICRITIC

www.enjoythemusic.com

 

[Angsty]

I’d trust the dealer on this one; he
makes money on either sale but would rather not have returns.

Here is a subjective review of the MP100 which mirrors what the dealer said.

McIntosh MP100 Phono Stage With Analog And Hi-Res Audio Digital Output Andrew Harrison reviews McIntosh's first ever phono stage, complete with D-to-A conversion. Review By Andrew Harrison

McIntosh MP100 Phono Stage With Analog And Hi-Res Audio Digital Output Andrew Harrison reviews McIntosh's first ever phono stage, complete with D-to-A conversion. Review By Andrew Harrison of HIFICRITIC

www.enjoythemusic.com

I had not looked any the price of the MP100. For US $2000, I think there are better choices, including the Parasound.

My go-to recommendation at that price is the Sutherland 20/20. I’ve never met an unhappy Sutherland owner; I have the Insight which is great at it’s lower price point.

 

[Revelation Sound]

I will be replacing my Dual CS 5000 turntable with a Rega Planar 6 with a Ania Pro cartridge next year. We will then consider if I would benefit with an upgraded phono pre amp. The Parasound Jc3 Jr would be my first choice. The Southerland 20/20 is an excellent choice for an additional $1,000...which is out of my range.

 

[Angsty]

Here are the retail prices as I understand them:

Sutherland 20/20 - US $2200 (without opt. LPS)
McIntosh MP100 - US $2000
Parasound JC 3 Jr. - US $1700
Sutherland Insight - US $1400 (without opt. LPS)

I've owned the Insight for five years and was completely satisfied with it until I heard a US $3200 Bryston BP-2 MM/MC in my system (actually, it was a BP-1.5 which is no longer produced). The 20/20 is more competitive to the Bryston and is often an "end-game" phono for many listeners.

However, in no way was the Insight embarassed by the Bryston. I just felt the Bryston handed high frequencies more to my liking, which I perceived as more detail and "air" in the highs. I used the Insight for several months happily while the Bryston BP-1.5 was being refurbished for age and at times I doubted that I still wanted to replace it until I heard them side-by-side. The Insight is really good and the 20/20 is better, but I have not heard it in my system.

 

[Tom C]

If he’s got an MP100 on hand to sell, he’s one of the only dealers that does, if not the only dealer.
Personally, I’d never trust the dealer on anything. Yes, he wants a happy customer, but he does not have my best interests at heart. My money’s on Amir and the kind of advice I can get on ASR.