Matrix Element i

[SpyB]

Appearance wise, I think their products resemble Aurender with the aluminum case and finned sides.

The Element I would interest me if it measures close to the Element X.

It will probably measure close to, or same as element M, I think your expectations of close to the element X are too high

 

[BDWoody]

Good for you,that you do not think these kind of devices are

worth the money/you have saved some $$$$.

I don't think these kinds of tweaks are worth it either...
Love to see someone demonstrate hearing a real difference under controlled circumstances.

Trading dollars for no improvement doesn't make sense in the non-tweako world...

 

[SpyB]

I don't think these kinds of tweaks are worth it either...
Love to see someone demonstrate hearing a real difference under controlled circumstances.

Trading dollars for no improvement doesn't make sense in the non-tweako world...

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Quote : "I don't think these kinds of tweaks are worth it either"

The point I was making when I said that a Linear Power Supply is not to be considered a tweak

was that if one, decides to replace a cheap SMPS with admittedly less efficient LPS (this is not a tweak)

A SMPS as supplied by the greater majority of manufacturer's, is to keep the costs down.

Unless it is a SMPS as designed by Benchmark.

Then we have a SMPS that is of the quality of a LPS and possibly better because it will be more efficient,

There are tweaks and false prophet's in this Audio Industry who can convince the unaware

to part with very large sums of money,for absolutely no improvement(on this I agree).

A power supply in electronics is a different story all together,

even Matrix Audio suggest that a improvement can be made by replacing the SMPS with a good LPS( Matrix i )

Implying that the SMPS is a compromise to keep costs down,the thing with Matrix though is they use

LDO's throughout their circuitry to compensate for any negative power supply issues.

I emphasize again, that if a effort is made to design a SMPS like the Benchmark Amplifier has

then this will be more efficient and quieter option / than a good LPS.

It may surprise some to know that the OPPO 205 that measured very well here,has a SMPS

and that is possibly because OPPO like Benchmark,went to the trouble to design a proper

SMPS.Make no mistake the cheap SMPS as supplied by the greater majority of electronics

manufacturer's, has now place in audio electronics and should be eliminated.

I will also say it appears the the Hypex SMPS appear's to be of correct design,eg: NCore 400 etc.

"A POWER SUPPLY IS NOT A TWEAK"

Good Info on Power Supply's https://www.teamwavelength.com/power-supply-basics/

Cheers

 

[BDWoody]

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Quote : "I don't think these kinds of tweaks are worth it either"

a subjective comment,backed up by no informative argument
,

So my suggestion is to gain more knowledge on what you are talking about before you comment,

Take a deep breath...
Here's what I said:

"I don't think these kinds of tweaks are worth it either...
Love to see someone demonstrate hearing a real difference under controlled circumstances."

If you include the rest of it, you can see I was saying what I think. It wasn't made as definitive, nor claiming I had some special knowledge or theory about it...in fact, I then said I'd like to see real world differences tested. Not sure why that caused such a condescending reaction...

Not sure I would change any of it... Honest opinion. Honest question. Sorry...

 

[SpyB]

Take a deep breath...
Here's what I said:

"I don't think these kinds of tweaks are worth it either...
Love to see someone demonstrate hearing a real difference under controlled circumstances."

If you include the rest of it, you can see I was saying what I think. It wasn't made as definitive, nor claiming I had some special knowledge or theory about it...in fact, I then said I'd like to see real world differences tested. Not sure why that caused such a condescending reaction...

Not sure I would change any of it... Honest opinion. Honest question. Sorry...

I am not being condescending,the guy you quoted started this conversation by referring to a LPS as a tweak

then you come along supporting that/and yes, you are entitled to have your opinion.

My point is,that a power supply inside the electronics or outside in a separate box eg: LPS (is not a tweak)

And I have an opinion too,that has supported evidence that a good LPS is more desirable to a cheap SMPS

as supplied by most manufacturers. And that is all I am trying to put forward, not all things in electronics,

we have to hear, for them to still be important.The claim that it can not be heard is some times irrelevant

to the importance of design

My apologies if you were/are offended that is not my intention

Cheers

 

[BDWoody]

I am not being condescending,the guy you quoted started this conversation by referring to a LPS as a tweak

then you come along supporting that/and yes, you are entitled that/your opinion.

My point is,that a power supply inside the electronics or outside in a separate box eg: LPS (is not a tweak)

And I have an opinion too,that has supported evidence that a good LPS is more desirable to a cheap SMPS

as supplied by most manufacturers. And that is all I am trying to put forward, not all things in electronics,

we have to hear, for them to still be important.The claim that it can not be heard is some times irrelevant

to the importance of design

My apologies if you were/are offended that is not my intention

Cheers

Not offended, no worries.
I agree that a good power supply is important, but I believe it is the unusual one that would render any audible difference that I would care about or notice.

I think some people assume there are a handful of ...changes...they need to make immediately just because...and I don't think a new power supply should necessarily be on that list. If it is, the seller should have provided a proper one to start with.

Cheers.

 

[MatrixAudio]

Today, from Matrix Audio Facebook page:
First iOS app released!

is it horrible?

 

[SpyB]

Hey!! Matrix,
How about a review off the Matrix element i

This would be very appreciated by people on this forum

We would all be interested how well you can do with the entry level of the

element series

Thank you

 

[MatrixAudio]

Hey!! Matrix,
How about a review off the Matrix element i
This would be very appreciated by people on this forum
We would all be interested how well you can do with the entry level of the element series

Hey Bro, we will.

 

[SpyB]

Hey Bro, we will.

Thank you,

Waiting in anticipation

 

[digicidal]

Not offended, no worries.
I agree that a good power supply is important, but I believe it is the unusual one that would render any audible difference that I would care about or notice.

I think some people assume there are a handful of ...changes...they need to make immediately just because...and I don't think a new power supply should necessarily be on that list. If it is, the seller should have provided a proper one to start with.

Cheers.

Agreed. And based upon the previous Matrix Audio devices which have been measured here... any audible issues in regards to power supply have been completely (and competently) handled prior to the devices leaving their test bench during development. I understand (sort of) the desire of having a hand in "improving" a device you interface with directly - whether it be via furniture, cables, PS, etc... but to some extent it's a paradox by design:

Did you purchase a device from a manufacturer who was too incompetent in component selection to leave significant performance untapped by the omission of a simply acquired "tweak"? If not, then why waste the money yourself? If so, then why buy that device in the first place? Considering there are many competent engineers designing devices which are audibly transparent without them (like Matrix Audio has likely done with the device in question in this thread). At least I think it's unlikely they suddenly dropped the ball on this - considering how exceptional their previous offerings are.

 

[SpyB]

Agreed. And based upon the previous Matrix Audio devices which have been measured here... any audible issues in regards to power supply have been completely (and competently) handled prior to the devices leaving their test bench during development. I understand (sort of) the desire of having a hand in "improving" a device you interface with directly - whether it be via furniture, cables, PS, etc... but to some extent it's a paradox by design:

Did you purchase a device from a manufacturer who was too incompetent in component selection to leave significant performance untapped by the omission of a simply acquired "tweak"? If not, then why waste the money yourself? If so, then why buy that device in the first place? Considering there are many competent engineers designing devices which are audibly transparent without them (like Matrix Audio has likely done with the device in question in this thread). At least I think it's unlikely they suddenly dropped the ball on this - considering how exceptional their previous offerings are.

It is not about if the manufacturer/engineer, is incompetent in component selection.

The object with the Matrix element i, not having a onboard LPS,like the rest of the element series.

Is to reduce the cost/and to bring to the market place the best value for $$,in the entry level,

and I am sure they will have achieved this.Matrix themselves mention that exploring the option of

a external LPS will result in the full potential of the device.

The Matrix element i as delivered will be excellent I am sure,the SMPS that it is shipped with

will also be good.However unless a SMPS is of the Quality and design of the one in the

Benchmark Amplifier or the Hypex SMPS 600 used with the NC400 amplifier,It will be inferior

to a good LPS.Sure the SMPS is more efficient,a SMPS of the cheap kind supplied by almost

all manufacturers is inferior.In electronics a properly designed Power supply is everything,

and has the greatest impact on the rest of the design.

 

[BDWoody]

In electronics a properly designed Power supply is everything,

and has the greatest impact on the rest of the design.

But, not on what's audible...assuming a competent design...

 

[digicidal]

It is not about if the manufacturer/engineer, is incompetent in component selection.

So what specifically is lacking which can be rectified (pun intended) by a 3rd party LPS - i.e. what aspect is compromised by the one included? Is it noisy, is it under powered, likely to fail prematurely, what? It's expected that if you have a very high-quality external power supply that it is likely a more durable and possibly better measuring device as a power supply that is, but what does that actually improve in the device it's connected to?

That's what I (and @BDWoody) are referring to as competence - not the power supply itself. I presume it's a cheap mass-produced external unit similar to thousands of other CE devices... but if you're saying that the DAC can't operate to 100% of it's specifications with the included PS... then I would say that's not truly competent. On their statement, I would take that more as a "the customer is always right" rather than "we couldn't give you 100% of the performance for this price - so the rest is up to you" - which is what your interpretation implies.

 

[ZgSTar]

The convenience of this box, with it's built in roon ready transport, a built in headphone amp and all the features this is now top of my dream list. Too bad the usb chip is the 208 which will mean probably no MQA?

Let's hope we can get a review and measurements asap.

 

[Ruxx]

Audio sounded fine before MQA was a thing, i for sure will survive without it.

 

[ZgSTar]

As a heavy tidal user it's a good plus. However being my main setup Roon I doubt it will make a real difference.

 

[paddycrow]

What is the status of getting the Element I reviewed?

 

[Matias]

Consider the Element i "previewed" in the EtherREGEN review below.

 

[paddycrow]

Thanks! Looks pretty darned respectable.