MASSDROP X Focal ELEX Review (headphone)

[Acerun]

Seems like the most lukewarm recommendation in recent memory.

 

[Rottmannash]

of course as you could also see in my video, I had them both taken apart, there was no visible issue, all wires were soldered perfectly, but the affected driver was just dead. Interestingly combining 2 drivers from 2 different units resulted in some imbalance again which I could somehow improve by also swapping pads, but it is not like it was at the very beginning.

Sorry-didn't watch the video.

 

[Zensō]

I was close to getting this and then I tried the elear at a store. It felt heavy and then continues using my senn hd 660. Not because they sounded better but they were comfortable.

I hear you. I have both the Elex and the HD660S. The Elex beats it (barely) on sound quality, but I use the 660S much more due to the better comfort. I’m almost afraid to admit it here in the wolves’ den, but I actually use my Apple AirPods Max far more than any other headphone due to comfort, convenience, noise isolation, and surprisingly competent sound quality when EQ’d. At least for me, with headphones there’s far more to it than simply sound quality.

 

[Dro]

As much as I liked my Clear, the fact that its frequency response changed over time, even without using it, pretty much stops me from buying another Focal headphone. If I buy a 1500 EUR headphone for the nice frequency response and it just deteriorates, I'm out. I can rule out it was earpad wear or the measuring setup. It also had nonlinearities (bass would get louder relatively with increasing level) and the driver limit, but those two were more theoretical issues than practical.

The Elex seems like much better value, but after my experience I would still be hesitant to recommend it to my friends.

 

[ReaderZ]

I rarely listen at anything over 85dB for more than a few minutes. I must say I enjoy the Elex, and particularly as I got them during their Black Friday promotion last year for $550.

Comfort is okay, but I do find after a few hours that the clamp pressure gets a bit much and can cause a headache. I find them much more comfortable than the HD6XX however which is lighter but has a truly horrible clamp pressure for extended listening.

Same here, if something get anywhere close to 90 db I will turn it down instantly, Elex has served me well and I will never have to worry about driver SPL limit.

 

[solderdude]

Again... 90dBA or 90Phon (what the SPL meters indicate and the SPL warning lists show) is NOT the same as 90dB SPL in the lows.
When one is listening to 80 or 85dBA (or 85 Phon) you are already having well over 90dB SPL peaks maybe even closer to 100dB!

 

[amirm]

Same here, if something get anywhere close to 90 db I will turn it down instantly, Elex has served me well and I will never have to worry about driver SPL limit.

You have a way to measure calibrated peak loudness??? I suspect not. I assure you that you have listened to this level and higher without knowing it.

 

[ReaderZ]

You have a way to measure calibrated peak loudness??? I suspect not. I assure you that you have listened to this level and higher without knowing it.

I played one of my current playlist at my usual listening level, most of time is around 70 db, and highest peak measured is 91 db. No idea about this calibrated peak thing though, not a very technical person...

 

[ReaderZ]

Again... 90dBA or 90Phon (what the SPL meters indicate and the SPL warning lists show) is NOT the same as 90dB SPL in the lows.
When one is listening to 80 or 85dBA (or 85 Phon) you are already having well over 90dB SPL peaks maybe even closer to 100dB!

??? So the if a mic measured 91db peak, I am really at 100+? I am very confused now, I know the difference between db and dba, but I thought if you simply use a mic to measure SPL you are measuring in db and not dba?

 

[paolomo]

This whole discussion about levels would make a very interesting ASR video.

 

[solderdude]

It depends on the meter used. Some do not register very short peaks accurately.
Besides peak SPL is not continuous SPL.
Here is some info on actual measurements of music (dB SPL)
What it doesn't show is how much of this are low frequencies and mid frequencies.
For low frequencies (largest amplitude is low frequencies in music) dB and Phon are not equal and we hear in Phon.
So when a mic does measure a peak of 91dB it measures the total SPL but does not differentiate between low and high frequencies.

 

[ReaderZ]

It depends on the meter used. Some do not register very short peaks accurately.
Besides peak SPL is not continuous SPL.
Here is some info on actual measurements of music (dB SPL)
What it doesn't show is how much of this are low frequencies and mid frequencies.
For low frequencies (largest amplitude is low frequencies in music) dB and Phon are not equal and we hear in Phon.
So when a mic does measure a peak of 91dB it measures the total SPL but does not differentiate between low and high frequencies.

I see, I will read that link in detail later, so far seems only thing I have to concern myself with peak SPL is "It depends on the meter used. Some do not register very short peaks accurately." As the one I had was a cheap one under $100 USD. Otherwise, my estimate of peak and avg SPL should be not that far off. I have also moved away from ASIO to use volume normalization so peak should be even lower.

 

[PeteL]

All this Phon, VS dB SPL, vs dBA is a great thing to clarify, along with the Fletcher Munson theory behind it, and I don't say this cynically, but to the crux of the matter, that driver scary burst clicking happens at a number that is above what my own personal confort limit is. I haven't got that, ever, except once where I was really trying hard to find what people where referring to.

 

[paolomo]

OK I am no audio expert, but let me give my tiny contribution to this discussion, as to what the point is in measuring at such extreme conditions. It's a tool of investigation, it's used frequently in science and engineering:

1. To study constituents of matter, particle physicists make particles collide at energies we never experience in real life.
2. To test the shock resistance of cars, crash tests include the case in which the car is destroyed. Doesn't mean you are supposed to do it.
3. To test materials strength, samples are loadad until they break. Same story, in normal usage you don't want to reach that point.

All this is done in order to investigate what's otherwise inaccessible, to make predictions, to optimize designs. This is not a depiction of a normal usage scenario.

@amirm does a very similar thing. He investigates possible anomalies, peculiarities and even design flaws by pushing the parameters in his measurements. Those are not a depiction of normal usage. Normal usage is the listening tests.

I was initially troubled by that constant pushing, but now I get it. My two cents.

 

[sandymc]

I hear you. I have both the Elex and the HD660S. The Elex beats it (barely) on sound quality, but I use the 660S much more due to the better comfort.

Hmm. I have the HD6xx, aka the HD650, and I find the Elex to be much better. Mids are are similar, but the Elex has better treble, and resolves much more detail. The Elex is also less harsh on imperfections.

 

[solderdude]

All this Phon, VS dB SPL, vs dBA is a great thing to clarify, along with the Fletcher Munson theory behind it, and I don't say this cynically, but to the crux of the matter, that driver scary burst clicking happens at a number that is above what my own personal confort limit is. I haven't got that, ever, except once where I was really trying hard to find what people where referring to.

It also should include age related hearing loss. With age not only treble starts to roll-off but also sensitivity lowers.
When playing music loud my son already covers his ears yet for me it is comfortably loud.
So for 20 y.o. (not used to disco's and concerts) what is considered loud may not be so for older audiophiles.

 

[amirm]

This whole discussion about levels would make a very interesting ASR video.

Just created a presentation on it. Was going to post it tonight but getting sleepy. Look for it tomorrow.

 

[solderdude]

@amirm does a very similar thing. He investigates possible anomalies, peculiarities and even design flaws by pushing the parameters in his measurements. Those are not a depiction of normal usage. Normal usage is the listening tests.

Indeed. The assertion of casual readers and haters is that Amir actually listens/evaluates the sound of headphones at 114dB average levels.
He does no such thing. I suspect he 'listens' to the sweeps while on the test rig while sweeping at 114dB (as do I but at max 100dB).
When he evaluates he will probably listen at 'normal' levels, maybe around 80-85dB average and louder to check for shaking earlobes but momentarily. Just like a lot of people like to turn up music loud if they really enjoy it or evaluate something.

In the explanatory video he could show scope images while describing the sound level (as in my article) and calculate SPL based on the measured voltages. This really is the only correct way to show actual power and SPL levels and correlate to perceived levels.

 

[Objectivist01]

I hear you. I have both the Elex and the HD660S. The Elex beats it (barely) on sound quality, but I use the 660S much more due to the better comfort. I’m almost afraid to admit it here in the wolves’ den, but I actually use my Apple AirPods Max far more than any other headphone due to comfort, convenience, noise isolation, and surprisingly competent sound quality when EQ’d. At least for me, with headphones there’s far more to it than simply sound quality.

The cherry on the top was I got my 660s + apogee groove new from sennheiser on coorporate discount. Paid 325 for both. Sold the apogee immediately for 150. So I ended up having a 175€ 660 with two years warranty. Compared to that the best price I could find for the elear Was 499 locally on a offer at a store. But I was still interested to go up a tier. But only due to the weight part I felt I would regret screwing up the deal. Then eventually after 8 months ended up selling the 660s on ebay for 275. (the senns were not on any offer anywhere then)So theoretically I ended up having 100 bucks in my pocket for using the sennheiser for 8 months

Now happy with a audioquest nightowl : as I needed a comfortable full-sized closed back. Sonically with some eq it's a good headphone. Easy to drive off a phone even.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

It also should include age related hearing loss. With age not only treble starts to roll-off but also sensitivity lowers.
When playing music loud my son already covers his ears yet for me it is comfortably loud.
So for 20 y.o. (not used to disco's and concerts) what is considered loud may not be so for older audiophiles.

Reminds me of this video:

That being said: I agree. 90dB in the treble and I would reach for the volume control immediately. 90dB in the sub bass and I would probably be like gramps in the video. Ah and I have never stepped into a concert or a disco, I can't even cope with the volume they use in cinemas.