But wouldn't it only apply to your own head? I have never felt the need to bend either, really fit is a personal thing no? not to be shared as general suggestion, and even less as an "issue"? Not to say other cannot have experienced that tough but wouldn't be possible some other find the HD6xx too loose?
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MASSDROP Sennheiser HD58X JUBILEE Review (Headphone)
- Thread starter amirm
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
Added the sensitivity graph to the review:
Definitely more sensitive than HD-650.
109.6 dB/V close to the measured 110 dB/V I measured (and Jude did) and far removed from the listed 104dB/V as listed by Sennheiser. Drop used the info they got from Sennheiser.
For what it's worth, I've the exact same problem as mentionned by Tks. I reduced the clamping force and now there is one side that feels uncomfortable. It's no big deal and I can live with it, but it definitely can happen.
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Interesting, Let us know if you do find this, it's interesting. "Impossible" seems a bit much tough, maybe impossible for this level match to be mathematically exact, we can say that, but if with a spl meter I take an A weighted SPL Pickup of fullband signal of different speakers and they measure the same after weighting can't we say they are "level" matched? At least perceptually? Now if we can theoretically do this, Why couldn't we be able to do this with a measuring head? After all it's just measurment mics in both cases?
Zensō
Major Contributor
That's the "not bad" panther. Or as Amir put it: "I can recommend the MASSDROP Sennheiser HD58X JUBILEE without EQ. With EQ, it is a hair from getting top honors from me!"At first I was a little bit scared when I saw unfamiliar panther to me near one of my favorite headphones, but I'm glad how it all ended up! Sorry I'm still kinda new here, what kind of award is this one?
Tks
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No, in stock formneither of these headphones are in a neutral position where they don't clamp on one's head (unless you truly have some malformality of the cranial structure). But because the 6XX has a lesser top limit clamping force (this doesn't mean it doesn't have clamp force), it will always be more comfortable for virtually anyone. The 58X clamps hard and early. So much so that I challenge almost anyone who can claim they can widthstand a bone-stock 58X clamp force + use it in a comfortable position for hours-long use (after pulling down the cups to the desired height).
OP
- Thread Starter
- #69
We can measure amplitude. Determine what is "loudness" is a perceptual thing. With our hearing being highly non-linear in this regard, the matching is non-trivial. The matching using noise is an approximation, not perfect matching.
Here are a few methods used for level matching in research papers:
Modeling Perceptual Characteristics of
Loudspeaker Reproduction in a Stereo Setup
CHRISTER P. VOLK,1,2 AES Student Member
([email protected])
, SØREN BECH,2,3 AES Fellow, TORBEN H. PEDERSEN1,
AND FLEMMING CHRISTENSEN2
Characterizing the Amplitude Response of
Loudspeaker Systems
Allan Devantier
Harman International Industries Inc., Northridge, CA, 91329, USA
The Correlation Between Distortion Audibility and Listener Preference in Headphones
Steve Temme1, Sean E. Olive2, Steve Tatarunis3, Todd Welti4, and Elisabeth McMullin5
More of your deeper coverage of more complex issues. As a reader of ASR, videos that just walk a review I have already read are of little to no interest.
Of course as a vehicle to get wider coverage of your work those same videos are of great value; getting the word out is important.
So I am conflicted. I won’t bother with review videos. But applaud their production.
Debunking videos always fun.
The speaker burn-in stuff needs to be addressed. Once and for all. It will apparently be the only debunking test of speaker burn-in. Perhaps two speakers can be faced towards each other and connected out of phase to reduce the sound output so it doesn't drive you bonkers. The websites that I read today that advised to burn in speakers recommend ~20-100 hours of burn-in.
Yeah. That would be a big one.
IMHO it isn’t a trivial debunking. There are nuances and real effects as well as a massive amount of total BS. So a lot of work. But absolutely one to consider.
Tks
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Bone stock 58X is more comfortable than a 6XX without any clamp force adjustment? That's a first for me.
Drivers like anything in the world can obviously burn-in. The matter of it is is how much. And what affects it. In short, the driver that changes during use are constructed less stably or materials are less elastic and deform easily. So in a way, good speakers don't burn in. If the speakers burn in it's crap.
Another thing is if the coil and the inner components warm up after current passing through, some parameters can change. This is common and can be demonstrated.
Also room temperature affects things.
It's not easy or simple to just debunk this once and for all. Like most other things, it's nuanced and it's never that simple.
Another thing is if the coil and the inner components warm up after current passing through, some parameters can change. This is common and can be demonstrated.
Also room temperature affects things.
It's not easy or simple to just debunk this once and for all. Like most other things, it's nuanced and it's never that simple.
Can just test it at room standard room temperature 22C/71.6F and call it a day. That should be good enough.
The thing the sceptics of debunking break-in will maybe latch onto is that the speaker they have in mind was not tested and therefore the topic is not debunked for that specific model.
I still think that a burn-in test of a speaker or three will provide enough evidence that it is all in their imagination.
Tks
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To me, the common "burn in" sentimentality from subjectivist is a trivial debunk. For one, it goes unsaid that burn-in is somehow ALWAYS a positive. Never once have I heard anyone make commentary on why burn-in was ever detrimental (meaning a driver settling in, and now sounds worse after settling into where all the drivers ever produced of that SKU will be also in the same undesirable stable state).
Another thing is, simply not a single manufacturer of drivers have a "burn-in" spec of sorts to follow or recommend (I don't want to hear what speaker companies say, all I want is the data sheets that are authored not by marketing, but by engineers directly working on the manufacturing of the drivers - and what they say they're doing with respect to this supposed burn-in phenomena that isn't in any sort of design phase, or engineering phase of development for as much as I know).
These two combined are enough in my view to make the common burn-in proponents drop their claims.
Now if we're talking about burn-in in terms of driver wear over decades, then your comment holds. Or if we're talking about burn-in in terms of driver state a second after the first time it's asked to produce sound, your comment also holds.
But seeing as how I personally don't care about decades long performance, nor do I care about the literal sub 1-second burn in that occurs from a brand new driver going through a cycle of excursion -- It's not an interesting topic at all.
We already have enough driver to driver variance. And the absence of evidence of audible burn-in (in the same way there is an absence of scientifically verified platinum plated cable claims ringing true). EVEN IF burn-in was true the fact that it's so elusive means it should be the furthest thing from the common person's mind. Then again, most people aren't worried about how their 115dB SINAD DAC is leaving something on the table where they should now spring for the 120dB SINAD DAC; so I guess I just self-owned myself with that conclusion.
You need an AC for that. And 26-28 may be more practical. But that's beside the point. The point is just right out of my head I could think of various things can affect the result. And one can easily overlook something. The attitude of performing the test is certainly important. Some people from somewhere often just observe something then immediately come to conclusion.
I'm all for the test. Just to say it better be a well prepared one if it's going to happen.
For sure. Enduring many hours of burn-in noise will require a well defined plan, simultaneously video recording the matter and acquiring the data too. It's a big task for one person.
I have previously outlined one case where burn in would likely be a real effect, and would act to improve the speaker. But it is limited and unlikely to affect many if not most speaker purchases. However IMHO it would be worth exploring.
In general however, exactly so. The vast amount of burn in is indeed BS.
In guitar speakers burn in is very much an accepted thing. Again, a lot of this is general lore, and not well supported by objective fact. However large full range paper cone speakers with pleated surrounds are a different beast to HiFi speakers. And players are generally obsessed about finding that ideal vintage tone, which tends to mean they are pre-wired to like the sound of something that is worn. Guitar speakers have a much harder life than HiFi speakers, and are often deliberately, and designed to be, driven to produce intrinsic distortion of significant levels.
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