Thanks, yes I do not disagree with any of that, At it's core, frequency weighting is a "perceptual" concept. Non trivial, sure, approximation, well I kind said the same by saying "not mathematically exact. But. Science based, rigorous none the less. The fact that B weighting is more appropriate than A weighting, sure, I'm interested in the demonstration but no doubt Olive's studies can make an assessment on this that are more accurate than what I said, which as you noticed I formulated as a question, not a statement.
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MASSDROP Sennheiser HD58X JUBILEE Review (Headphone)
- Thread starter amirm
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Tks
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I really don't understand why all this walking around needs to even happen though. It simply cannot be as difficult to gather 5-6 head of driver engineering from 5-6 companies, and just let them speak on this nonsense once and for all. At least we can dispense with the stupidity of burn-in implicitly always being a benefit. And actually while they're at it, explain why on EARTH burn-in would be a desirable thing in the first place instead of just creating as you said "a specific distortion profile" ready out the box. Like if driver makers said something like "yes driver burn-in is something we do for guitar amps, by literally almost destroying the driver by playing it at unsafe levels to literally break it down before it's utterly non functional, and then we ship it out to customers that want such a sound". That I would understand..
Like why would we need to postulate tests like a bunch of researchers when there are literal people out there who make these things who can speak on it first-hand.
For goodness sake, we don't even have a formal definition of burn-in to begin with. Any definition that exists, sure as heck can't be technical since it would come at the displeasure of burn-in proponents (simply because there's no way someone designs a product with a randomness factor after a period of "break in", and somehow no one know that this is something they're doing). It also doesn't make sense since it would be one more aspect that a company would need to take account for (imagine having a stable product, vs and unstable one... Why would any company want unstable variables about what their product can do?).
And lastly, EVEN IF these driver designers were all actually making drivers that have burn-in properties that must be adhered to for optimal performance. Why is it that none of them make this information available to clients when they make orders or request spec sheets on things they need to account for?
There's just so much either nonsense, or just pointless speculation about this topic - I simply cannot understand why anyone cares. Or why they would care enough to engage in finding out before consulting directly the leaders in the field who make drivers themselves from scratch.
mightygrey
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Subjective listening tests before, and then after measurements.
OP
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That has been the topic I have been thinking of doing very soon....
Kosta
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Woohoo ! Me too, will try out amirs EQ settings on them
Turrie
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Yes
ishouldbeking
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Haven't read this entire thread, but it's nice to see measurements in line with my own subjective experience (and past measurements of both cans, including Solderdude's helpful comparisons). People constantly ask for recommendations among the various 58x/6xx/650/600/660 line, and if you don't have access to EQ, it can be maddening spelling out all the subtle distinctions--they're all extremely similar, but there are noticeable (if minor) differences, and you could easily prefer one over another if you're doing A/B tests. But once you factor in EQ... the differences between the 58x and the rest are nonexistent, except for (1) price (58x is something like $300 cheaper than a 660) and (2) that the 58x and 660 are easier to drive than the 300 ohm models.
I have a 58x and 6xx and really enjoy both for what they are. If I had to choose, I like the 6xx more in its un-EQ'd stock form, as the boost to the upper bass lends an enjoyably "musical" warmth to the lower mids and I find the treble response to be slightly more even than the 58x. But it's really splitting hairs. The 58x has less of an overt upper bass bump than the 6xx, but it's balanced out by more sub-bass (both are light on sub-bass, but the 58x is noticeably less so); the 58x also has less upper-mid / low-treble energy than the 6xx, but my 6xx can actually sound a bit forward in that range; the treble is otherwise pretty similar and I find that the 58x subjectively feels brighter since it's not competing with the upper bass bump that the 6xx has, but the issue for me is that the 58x treble feels a bit more uneven, slightly spiky, and ever so slightly "harsh"; that harshness is tamer on the 6xx out of the box. All of this is, of course, subjective; fortunately, all of it can be easily corrected with EQ. Even the sub-bass can be boosted to a comfortable place for most music, as the distortion is helpfully limited to the bass region where it's less bothersome.
This line includes some of my favorite cans ever, and if anyone is on the fence, the 58x is a great way to jump in. Great price, great sound, identical build quality (slightly different aesthetics but very minor differences), and more easily driven from a smartphone or laptop speaker jack. Hard to beat.
I have a 58x and 6xx and really enjoy both for what they are. If I had to choose, I like the 6xx more in its un-EQ'd stock form, as the boost to the upper bass lends an enjoyably "musical" warmth to the lower mids and I find the treble response to be slightly more even than the 58x. But it's really splitting hairs. The 58x has less of an overt upper bass bump than the 6xx, but it's balanced out by more sub-bass (both are light on sub-bass, but the 58x is noticeably less so); the 58x also has less upper-mid / low-treble energy than the 6xx, but my 6xx can actually sound a bit forward in that range; the treble is otherwise pretty similar and I find that the 58x subjectively feels brighter since it's not competing with the upper bass bump that the 6xx has, but the issue for me is that the 58x treble feels a bit more uneven, slightly spiky, and ever so slightly "harsh"; that harshness is tamer on the 6xx out of the box. All of this is, of course, subjective; fortunately, all of it can be easily corrected with EQ. Even the sub-bass can be boosted to a comfortable place for most music, as the distortion is helpfully limited to the bass region where it's less bothersome.
This line includes some of my favorite cans ever, and if anyone is on the fence, the 58x is a great way to jump in. Great price, great sound, identical build quality (slightly different aesthetics but very minor differences), and more easily driven from a smartphone or laptop speaker jack. Hard to beat.
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As an owner of HD58X I was very happy to see it reviewed here!
Based on @amirm's measurement I created this 3-band EQ that I use in RME DSP directly (TotalMixFX):
Aim for approx. -7dB gain to avoid clipping. I found that trying to EQ above 4k made mine sound worse, so I stuck with only these 3 bands of EQ (which is nice as the RME DSP only provides 3-band EQ anyway
).
Based on @amirm's measurement I created this 3-band EQ that I use in RME DSP directly (TotalMixFX):
Code:
Equaliser: Generic
Sennheiser HD58X ASR
Filter 1: ON LSQ Fc 70.00 Hz Gain 7.00 dB Q 0.700
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 210.0 Hz Gain -1.50 dB Q 1.600
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2300 Hz Gain 3.00 dB Q 2.000Aim for approx. -7dB gain to avoid clipping. I found that trying to EQ above 4k made mine sound worse, so I stuck with only these 3 bands of EQ (which is nice as the RME DSP only provides 3-band EQ anyway
).mightygrey
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Great stuff - knowing how a speaker/headphone maps versus the preference curve is likely to impart some sort of expectation on performance, so this would be really welcome.
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www.drop.com which was formerly known as Massdrop.
Tks
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Comfort is hard to pinpoint for me if we're not specific. Like if we're talking about cups, there could be some that are better for example. But if we're talking about headband and things like that, then even these super light 58X's are actually not all that good. After a long day with them on, I feel like a child who's head hasn't formed properly (they depress the area on your head quite substantially, while not painful, it's not something one rests easy with if they're thinking about using these for years on end).
Likewise when we talk about cups, I can say LCD's are way more comfortable on contact. But they drop the ball by having a pathetic internal diameter compared to their overall size dimensions for example.
In the end, both the 58X and 6XX are comfortable. I'm just saying that the pressure and fiddling one needs to do to a bone stock 58X is annoying unless you have an abnormally small head. The clamp is just too much and too early and remains harsh quite quickly after they're made to flex when placing them on your head. The 6XX also clamp but they don't have as high of a stiffness/max clamp force.
TNT
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OK - but what is it? Do they tweak and resell Senheiser products? Is it a store?
Why is the product named "Massdrop X Senheiser HD 6XX"...?
//
Luke Lemke
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I agree. Out of the box with no EQ I actually prefer the 58x. I sold my 6XX, 660s and decided to keep the 58x. They are the best ones for Hard Rock / Metal IMO.
ishouldbeking
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A note on comfort, since this always comes up about the 58x/6xx line. Despite judicious headband padding, light weight overall, and soft / plush velour earpads, the excessive clamping force can make these very uncomfortable out of the box. But there's a very easy fix. Simply extend the headband all the way and gently bend the metal parts (the parts that extend out of the plastic covering on the headband; DO NOT attempt to bend the plastic headband or it will break) until the clamp loosens up. Some folks would put these on a stack of books for a day or two until they loosen up, but it's not necessary. It's a 60 second fix and you can find tons of youtube videos that show you how to do this safely. Just take it slow, bend gently, and continually try them on until the clamping pressure feels right. I've only had to do this to my 58x and 6xx once, and both are now about as comfortable as my Beyerdynamic DT 770's (the gold standard for comfort out of the box).
ishouldbeking
Active Member
Something else to consider for the 58x: they're excellent for gaming. Something about the 58x frequency response works better than any of the other cans in this line for video games, and these are well known in the gaming community for their excellent imaging and spatial positioning. I'm a casual gamer but I understand some competitive FPS folks use these because they're easy enough to drive (even from a crappy PS4 controller's headphone jack) and the spatial positioning for things like footsteps and gunshots is top notch. The only caveat is that the soundstage isn't wide at all (the whole HD600 line is known for its "intimate" or narrow soundstage), but the imaging makes them extremely immersive anyway.
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