Mark Levinson or Accuphase

[JRR]

I currently have a ML 585 on trial. It sounds good. One thing that concerns me is that they seemingly took two modules out of a 5 channel home theater amp (ML535h) put a preamp in the box and slapped a higher price tag on it. For instance, it lacks the beer can sized capacitors you’d see in an Accuphase. What do you think, price notwithstanding, is the better constructed AMP?

 

[dogmamann]

View attachment 342638View attachment 342637I currently have a ML 585 on trial. It sounds good. One thing that concerns me is that they seemingly took two modules out of a 5 channel home theater amp (ML535h) put a preamp in the box and slapped a higher price tag on it. For instance, it lacks the beer can sized capacitors you’d see in an Accuphase. What do you think, price notwithstanding, is the better constructed AMP?

You can expect positive response for mark levinson here. Luxman is just another hifi. Levi son is harman. Harman hardly does a wrong product

 

[Deleted member 21219]

You might ask @amirm for his opinion of Mark Levinson. I believe he has one. If I remember correctly, he had some sort of problem with it, and now runs a Chinese amp.

I could be wrong, though.

Jim

 

[kemmler3D]

In this price tier I really would just go for whichever one you think looks better and has a better warranty. You are well beyond paying for performance or sound quality, at this level it's about paying for a statement piece that you can get fixed if something goes wrong.

E: to be clear there's nothing wrong with that, but if you want to go for sheer price-performance you can probably chop a zero off the price tag and still get truly excellent sound.

 

[dualazmak]

I believe the price tags for these rather expensive amps covers service/repair polycies/costs/practices.
I know little about durability and warranty plus repair/maintenance services/policy given by Mark Levinson.

As I use Accuphase E-460 for long (I posted photos here), I know repair/service policy and practices of Accuphase.
Accuphase gears are rather expensive, but it includes their service and maintenance policy/practice.
I wrote here;

Spoiler

Accuphase provides repair and maintenance services for any of their past and present products sold in the past 50 years. Just one phone call to Accuphase, and they collect the amps (by the specially contracted transfer company having huge Accuphase boxes) at your home and they send it back to you afterwards; usually within one week quick and perfect service (in Japan) in reasonable cost after the warranty period. Of course the service is completely free within the warranty period.

I did it three times on my E-460; Accuphase's own decision to replace one capacitor (after the warranty period but of course free; a kind of gentle/generous preventive recall?), one repair for my mistake (short-circuit at SP terminals while operation) and one full overhaul maintenance.

They have several large storage rooms keeping huge amount of amp parts, including rather old capacitors, resistors, inductors and so on, used in their old products. In case if they cannot find the same parts, sometimes they even handmade it (by themselves or by contract-out) for perfect repair and maintenance, still in reasonable cost for us.

Their comparably high price list includes the cost covering such repair/maintenance policy, operation, human resources and services, I believe.

These policy and practice are of course the same for overseas users through the appointed dealers.

Also I wrote here;

Spoiler

Accuphase is intentionally restricting their export sales less than 30 % of their total business revenue in order to keep existing as an pure Japanese independent sustainable company;
http://www.accuphase.com/company_profile/a2_management_policies_2.pdf

 

[DSJR]

Levinson today isn't the Levinson that had an excellent secret reputation prior to Harman closing th efactory and moving everything (at least in the UK), secret because little to none of it was reviewed in HiFi News... Not sure the tried and trusted design team migrated over when Harman closed th efactory and moved everything away.

Accuphase is a luxury brand with superb build, finish, longevity, creamy tones (no grain to the hf) and sexy meters No doubt the performance of their amps can be bettered for far less these days, but the clothes won't be so nice and the visuals not as sexy.

Different people have different priorities and money to spend. Levinson to me was when the power amps were chunky black boxes and definitely not stylish

 

[Ron Texas]

The luxury construction will surely empty your bank account, but isn't likely to sound any better than inexpensive modern Class D amps.

 

[JRR]

I’m looking for a little more insight into amplifier construction and how these two compare. I’m as aware as any of you about the usual parameters and own gear at the top of that food chain as well. Why i decide to go with “traditional” hifi gear instead of the SINAD champions is another debate not relevant to this discussion.

Here is the question: Essentially, looking at construction alone does the ML deserve to be in the same price bracket as the Accuphase? Hopefully a knowledgeable member like restorer john or another of his ilk can enlighten me.

Thanks again

 

[GXAlan]

If you see playing in the premium integrated world, I think it’s hard to beat the Marantz PM-10.

It’s well built and has great measurements and subjective sound.

I sold mine only to fund my move to active speakers.

The Accuphase is better built, but in the US we pay a hefty price premium over what it would cost in Japan. What makes Accuphase great is that they stockpile spare parts for all their products, so you know it will be serviceable down the line. They are privately held, profitable, and don’t try to expand beyond what they can sustain. That means that it is much more likely to be around than a big company that is beholden to shareholders.

The Marantz is pretty good too.

 

[dualazmak]

Why i decide to go with “traditional” hifi gear instead of the SINAD champions is another debate not relevant to this discussion.

My pleasure to hear this statement; I feel I am in the same league.

Sorry to be out of the scope of this thread, but I have/had the same policy and decision (ref. here) in my audio project where I use Accuphase E-460, Yamaha A-S3000, Sony TA-A1ES and Yamaha S-S301; my latest system setup can be found here on my project thread.

 

[GXAlan]

You can also tell a lot by the remote

 

[ta240]

.... it lacks the beer can sized capacitors you’d see in an Accuphase.

It looks like they went with multiple smaller capacitors

 

[kemmler3D]

You can also tell a lot by the remote

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Too true.

Having sourced remotes before... the marantz and accuphase remotes probably cost $3-10 to procure, the ML remote probably cost $1-2.

That probably sounds low, but consider it as one part among many on the Bill of Materials. One of these manufacturers is trying hard to minimize parts cost.

 

[GXAlan]

Too true.

Having sourced remotes before... the marantz and accuphase remotes probably cost $3-10 to procure, the ML remote probably cost $1-2.

That probably sounds low, but consider it as one part among many on the Bill of Materials. One of these manufacturers is trying hard to minimize parts cost.

The Marantz has a metal front and plastic rear. It surprisingly works in that it feels premium even though I am sure the plastic cuts cost.

It’s a small touch to have a metal remote, but definitely translates into a premium experience.

 

[kemmler3D]

The Marantz has a metal front and plastic rear. It surprisingly works in that it feels premium even though I am sure the plastic cuts cost.

It’s a small touch to have a metal remote, but definitely translates into a premium experience.

I didn't realize they were metal. I'd up my minimum cost to $4-5 then.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't think you can rationally split these apart in any meaningful sense. I'd go Accuphase because they support their products longer, but mainly because I think they look nicer.

 

[JRR]

You can also tell a lot by the remote

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Completely agree. The AP remote feels very premium. I highly doubt the sourcing cost estimates listed above.

 

[JRR]

It looks like they went with multiple smaller capacitors
View attachment 342689

And isn’t that something seen in cheaper equipment? They put a compact HT amp module in a huge case. Seems BS to me.

 

[amirm]

I currently have a ML 585 on trial. It sounds good. One thing that concerns me is that they seemingly took two modules out of a 5 channel home theater amp (ML535h) put a preamp in the box and slapped a higher price tag on it. For instance, it lacks the beer can sized capacitors you’d see in an Accuphase. What do you think, price notwithstanding, is the better constructed AMP?

I took a look at the available tech info for both. Mark Levinson has a decent set of specs. Accuphase E-4000 has none. ML seems to have more power which is a benefit. The E-4000 has VU meters which is a positive in my book.

The ML585 amplifier modules are likely from ATI. This means they are quite reliable. But likely not very exotic or fancy. Personally I am lukewarm on ML electronics. They are quite expensive without the cache of higher end brands. They do look nice though.

 

[amirm]

And isn’t that something seen in cheaper equipment?

No, an array of smaller caps outperforms larger ones (and is more expensive to boot). You get better control of their resonant frequency that way. And have lower impedance.