Marching Onward re: distortion

[Hemi-Demon]

No. I was criticising *your* assessment which didnt tally with the data. Please take that on board.

10% distortion is not "nicely controlled" as you claimed. Lets remember you also called it bright so dont make out I was saying anything inaccurate.

You need to read your posts laced with put downs against myself. Two other members have commented in this thread about how you attacked me, so dont go there.

Black is white? What like you have just done?

You pulled this crap in the thread thread about caps. You insistence on defending your products, your own analysis, your own opinion on whether people want to use an eq is just maddening. This forum, and it's and owner have helped your company immensely, and now somehow his attitude (your inference, not mine) and a eq is causing all of this? Who cares about a shelf cut, versus all the rest of the review? The distortion versus response for a $400 looks that bad "too you"? Amir only does the subjective summary because members ASKED for it. Heck I bet he would rather just post raw data reviews and keep it moving.

I don't see how you can claim experience superiority, "likes" as coalescence of your antagonism , all the while playing the victim at the same time.

You are an asset to the forum, but your going too hard on this, and have destroyed a thread that could help someone, not willing to send $3,000+ on speakers.
Better be glad this isn't audiophile style, diyaudio or head-fi or they would have banned you already. That's WHY this is the best forum, hands down.

Props to the mods for letting this thread go on, props to Amir for accepting the challenge and not deleting anything. I do hope cooler heads prevail and the March speakers can be reviewed on ASR.

 

[amirm]

No. I was criticising *your* assessment which didnt tally with the data.

This is not addressing my assessment:

Obviously I havent heard it but just looking at the FR and PIR I would expect out of the box that it sounds thin and bright.

As I have bolded, you were absolutely putting down the speaker. And this was one of the key reasons I decided to respond to your post.

 

[March Audio]

No. A CEO of a company is not always right. But he is accountable for the direction he sets for the company. That is me. I will make mistakes but if I am more right than wrong, this place will continue to prosper. And prosper it has with over 1.5 million visitors a month. The wide reach of the data in turn encourages me to keep investing in systems and processes to do better.

Maybe you think I can do what you do in your job better and if I just challenge you forcefully, berate you with empty arguments like what I am responding to, you will agree and listen to me instead. But again, that is not me. Mind your own business and make sure your posts are technical in nature and not telling me what to do.

No you just ignore valid points because it may contradict you view or what you do. There is nothing empty in them.

So all you are doing is being disrespectful without listening or any intention to.

I will ask again why do you think 10% distortion is "nicely controlled"? That was one of the simple points I raised. Why do you think that was an unreasonable point to question?

It clearly isnt "nicely controlled", but instead of having the good grace to admit the error you just ignore and berate - your words.

Seriously, what light light do you think that paints you in?

 

[March Audio]

This is not addressing my assessment:


As I have bolded, you were absolutely putting down the speaker. And this was one of the key reasons I decided to respond to your post.

it is addressing it. Your final conclusion was that it was "balanced". Yet earlier you agreed it was bright, so I was spot on. Please stop trrying to re-write the facts. You wont control the narrative.

 

[YSC]

No you just ignore valid points because it may contradict you view or what you do. There is nothing empty in them.

So all you are doing is being disrespectful without listening or any intention to.

I will ask again why do you think 10% distortion is "nicely controlled"? That was one of the simple points I raised. Why do you think that was an unreasonable point to question?

It clearly isnt "nicely controlled", but instead of admitting the error you just ignore and berate - your words.

Seriously, what light light do you think that paints you in?

Seriously I looked back at the review, seems at 86 db measurement the Bass was at <2.3% distortion above 50hz, which is labelled as such "nicely controlled down to 50Hz", and for the 96db graph the label changed to 130Hz or so which looks reasonable.

I don't think Amirm have stated that the T5V distortion is nicely controlled down to 20Hz or below, and for any sensible person won't think a 5" speaker can do so?

 

[March Audio]

Seriously I looked back at the review, seems at 86 db measurement the Bass was at <2.3% distortion above 50hz, which is labelled as such "nicely controlled down to 50Hz", and for the 96db graph the label changed to 130Hz or so which looks reasonable.

I don't think Amirm have stated that the T5V distortion is nicely controlled down to 20Hz or below, and for any sensible person won't think a 5" speaker can do so?

Its at about 78dB below a 94 dB fundamental in the 65 to 80Hz region. 16dB down. Thats massive distortion. Isnt that about 15%?

It only really gets down to 2.3% above 200Hz.

 

[YSC]

Its at about 78dB below a 94 dB fundamental in the 65 to 80Hz region. 16dB down. Thats massive distortion. Isnt that about 15%?

It only really gets down to 2.3% above 200Hz.

View attachment 97670

I hope you noticed this is 96db plot, where at Amirm's distortion plot he clearly stated that at this volume it's only nicely controlled above about 130hz, and not to 50hz, so I don't see a problem here.

 

[March Audio]

I hope you noticed this is 96db plot, where at Amirm's distortion plot he clearly stated that at this volume it's only nicely controlled above about 130hz, and not to 50hz, so I don't see a problem here.
View attachment 97671

His larger graph simply states bass is nicely controlled. It isn't. The additional conclusions should have noted the massive distortion.

 

[YSC]

His larger graph simply states bass is nicely controlled. It isn't. The additional conclusions should have noted the massive distortion.

well below that graph he said this "Notice how the bass distortion stays well below its frequency response (otherwise THD would be over 100%!). So not reference quality but better than what one expects as noted. "

So from my poor non technical English it sounds like "even at this level the bass is quite ok but surely not reference quality (aka not textbook low distortion)" and from that my understanding is that quite some speakers with a shoot through the graph distortion like the 96db small plot there would actually have a THD >100%, am I missing something or my english is real bad

 

[Rick Sykora]

His larger graph simply states bass is nicely controlled. It isn't. The additional conclusions should have noted the massive distortion.

This is a $200 speaker with a 5 inch woofer. You can find woofer drivers alone that cost that much and produce comparable THD. You will also likely find that they do not publish a THD measurement at 96 dB either...

and nobody that wants to keep their hearing listens to a nearfield monitor at 96 dB!

 

[March Audio]

well below that graph he said this "Notice how the bass distortion stays well below its frequency response (otherwise THD would be over 100%!). So not reference quality but better than what one expects as noted. "

So from my poor non technical English it sounds like "even at this level the bass is quite ok but surely not reference quality (aka not textbook low distortion)" and from that my understanding is that quite some speakers with a shoot through the graph distortion like the 96db small plot there would actually have a THD >100%, am I missing something or my english is real bad

Sorry but its massive distortion. This is why I couldn't reconcile the comments with the data.

 

[March Audio]

No, you aren't missing anything at all; you got it right. Amir was impressed that this speaker didn't bottom out like other comparable ones like the JBL 305P MkII, which is widely considered one of the better speakers in this category. Amir is showing this through those graphs and is commenting on this fact. The positive review is due in large parts to the fact that for the very specific usage he discusses, this speaker plays louder. A good thing and a good reason to get the speakers over a lot of the others.

At this point this isn't even about that. Alan just wants to have the final word. I'm surprised Alan is not calling out the typos either. This is solely about him and since he is a manufacturer and competitor he should not be allowed to continue these maddening and petty debates. Congrats, Alan.

Its not petty. I'm looking for honest accurate reviews.

If you want to say "for the price" or whatever that's fine I wouldn't argue but putting headlines on graphs saying incorrect things is just misleading, especially to the non technical.

 

[March Audio]

This is a $200 speaker with a 5 inch woofer. You can find woofer drivers alone that cost thatmuch and produce comparable THD. You will also likely find that they do not publish a THD measurement at 96 dB either...

and nobody that wants to keep their hearing listens to a nearfield monitor at 96 dB!

Which has nothing to do with the fact that the comments on the graph are quite wrong

 

[Rick Sykora]

Its not petty. I'm looking for honest accurate reviews.

If you want to say "for the price" or whatever that's fine I wouldn't argue but putting headlines on graphs saying incorrect things is just misleading, especially to the non technical.

and there is a thread for this (as I mentioned earlier)

 

[YSC]

Sorry but its massive distortion. This is why I couldn't reconcile the comments with the data.

Sorry dude but your comment is nit picking to my view, I can't help unless one only watch the review partly and only that graph and comment it MAY cause any misinformation, if watching both volume distortion graphe plus read that comment Amirm made below, he did say that the distortion was great at 86db, and at 96db it's still relatively nicely controlled by not bottoming out, if that is understandable by me who is a Hong Kong resident who speaks Cantonese and with NO education on science since Grade 9 as an Arts stream student then it should not be inaccurate review to anyone.

This just sounds like someone praise a Mazda MX5 2.0 NA car and say it "acceleration feels great and did fine in this class of engine coz it would otherwise need 10+ sec to do 0-62" and you respond that "how a 7.5sec 0-62 is fast in anyway, it's slower than a XXX"... completely out of scope comment

 

[March Audio]

Sorry dude but your comment is nit picking to my view, I read that comment Amirm made below, he did say that the distortion was great at 86db, and at 96db it's still relatively nicely controlled .

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But it is simply not. The distortion is massive. The comments are misleading.

 

[amirm]

I'm looking for honest accurate reviews.

Oh, so my reviews are not honest either? Maybe you should make a list of what all is wrong with me 'cause it seems to be growing...

 

[March Audio]

Oh, so my reviews are not honest either? Maybe you should make a list of what all is wrong with me 'cause it seems to be growing...

I wil keep you on point Amir, I wont get deflected by your diversions.

Why did you say the bass distortion was nicely controlled when it is in the region of 15%?

Not reference level, its not in country mile of reference level.

 

[amirm]

I wil keep you on point Amir, I wont get deflected by your diversions.

Watch it.

Why did you say the bass distortion was nicely controlled when it is in the region of 15%?

Because I have experience from measuring distortion in over 100 speakers, most of them in bookshelf size and know what is or is not reasonable. And I explained this to you already this very thing in this post: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...m-t5v-review-studio-monitor.18122/post-590399

See the difference in bass? See how the Paradigm distortion actually rises above its fundamental below 50 Hz?

Here is another:

See the same issue?

And another:

See? All have distortions > 100% and you complain about 15%?

Really, members here all know this. You are in the dark because you are not paying attention and learning.

If your next post is not constructive, I am going to issue you a thread ban. Keep this up and the ban domain will increase. Enough is enough.

 

[Benedium]

Sigh... perhaps the only way forward is if we all adopted a little tolerance for each other's imperfections and humanity.